Bulls-Heat game 1 really shows Doc's bad coaching

[Q_FBE]

No, Game 1 shows you how good and disciplined the Bulls really are and their PG is healthy and hitting outside shots. Their Center is more athletic and contributes mightiliy in ever facet of the game except scoring. Plus the wings are more with it than our wings defensively. Even so, that might not be enough to stop My Hammy in the long run.

[Chelm]

something has to be said that the bulls are alot younger than the celtics...so they are able to hang at the heats pace of game for 48minutes....in games 2,4,5 we were tied or leading into the 4th quarter...but we were gassed and the offense floundered..

I think this is really important to note.  If the games were 36 minutes long, we would have won the series.  The curse of "experience" is that, at times, you don't have the legs to play out the game.  This isn't a problem plaguing the Bulls.

[OsirusCeltics]

Here me out

When you have 4 players above 6'11" (JO, Kristic, Murphy, KG)
why not exploit that advantage? Create plays where the ball goes in the hole every time down. Focus more on rebounding

Only one of those guys is a better offensive player than Noah, let alone Asik, Gibson and Boozer. You can't exploit smaller players on offense if your guys can't score. But to me, the biggest difference was how  the younger and more athletic Bulls were able to hound the Heat all game, whereas our guys were worn down by the end.

Exactly.  The difference is all about having young, energetic, athletic role players who can contribute and allow the starters to relax on both ends of the court.

The Celtics had enough on the bench which were never utilized.
(Murphy, Pavlovic, Wafer, Arroyo, Kristic, West, Green)

There's no way the Bulls have a better offensive lineup than that

[PosImpos]

Here me out

When you have 4 players above 6'11" (JO, Kristic, Murphy, KG)
why not exploit that advantage? Create plays where the ball goes in the hole every time down. Focus more on rebounding

Only one of those guys is a better offensive player than Noah, let alone Asik, Gibson and Boozer. You can't exploit smaller players on offense if your guys can't score. But to me, the biggest difference was how  the younger and more athletic Bulls were able to hound the Heat all game, whereas our guys were worn down by the end.

Exactly.  The difference is all about having young, energetic, athletic role players who can contribute and allow the starters to relax on both ends of the court.

The Celtics had enough on the bench which were never utilized.
(Murphy, Pavlovic, Wafer, Arroyo, West, Green)

There's no way the Bulls have a better offensive lineup than that

The Bulls won today because of second chance opportunities generated by offensive boards.  They killed Miami on the glass.

Which one of those guys on the bench would have swung the rebounds in our favor?

Watson, Korver, Brewer, Gibson, Asik

Only D-West and Green are of the same caliber as any of those guys.  I'd take Gibson or Asik over Davis or Krstic any day.

[Who]

The Celtics did not have the personnel to do what Chicago are doing.

Not an issue with coaching.

[the_Bird]

The Celtics did not have the personnel to do what Chicago are doing.

Not an issue with coaching.

Even if we had gotten past the Heat...  man, Chicago is good.  I'm not sure how we'd match up with them, athletically, at all.  Gibson and Noah would be grabbing every offensive rebound, Pierce would have a helluva time with Deng defending them, and Rose is just as quick as Rondo. 

Watching Chicago is really, really discouraging, especially since so many of their better players are young.  Gibson and that other young center are [dang] good defensive players.  Rose is young, Noah is young, Deng's not that old. 

Can you imagine if Wade *had* signed in Chicago last summer?

[slamtheking]

something has to be said that the bulls are alot younger than the celtics...so they are able to hang at the heats pace of game for 48minutes....in games 2,4,5 we were tied or leading into the 4th quarter...but we were gassed and the offense floundered..

I think this is really important to note.  If the games were 36 minutes long, we would have won the series.  The curse of "experience" is that, at times, you don't have the legs to play out the game.  This isn't a problem plaguing the Bulls.

Actually, the curse of experience is when experienced players continue to play like rookies.  too many times in the Heat series, our veteran players were just too careless with the ball, lackadaisical on D and playing take-the-easy-jumper offense. 

Smart, experienced players would know enough to take care of the ball on every possession, play solid D every possession and work the best offensive matchup or run set plays that will get a man open.

Did anyone see our experienced, veteran players actually do that other than in the second half of game 3 (the only game the pulled away from the Heat and won going away)?  I sure didn't.

[Chris]

The Bulls won because they took care of the ball offensively, and had the athleticism to beat the Heat to the ball defensively.

I don't think a coaching difference was evident at all, I just think the Bulls players executed better, and they had more tools to work with.

[OsirusCeltics]

My beef is that Bulls did what Celtics didn't do
Make the Heat play half-court basketball

Sorry, that falls on the coach

[CelticG1]

I think Lebron and Wade didn't make ridiculous shots. If the Bulls play the same defense we did I can't see Miami plying 4 more games like that in a series.

[ben]

Have we talked about the way the Bulls attack the offensive boards?  Does that have to do with Doc's coaching vs. Thibs.

I am a huge Thibs guy.  I predict Thibs will win more championships than Doc Rivers easily.  I think Thibs defense is a big reason we earned Banner 17.  Doc's offense, considering he has 3 halloffamers on his team, was not as hot as it was supposed to be the past 4 years.  

I am such a huge Thibs guy, I would prefer Thibs to Rivers to coach the celtics during the next 5 years.  I am happy for him finding a head coach job in Chicago.  I can't believe LBJ and Wade did NOT choose Chicago instead of Miami lol.  

Rivers choice to play Glen Davis so many minutes, and in front of guys like Kristic, Murphy, Powe in the past, Williams, Sheed,  is very suspect.  I don't like that choice at all.  

I also think Rivers Offense is far too complicated for the NBA.  Red Aurbach always preached "Keep It Simple".  Doc seems to believe the opposite, he employed over 60 offensive sets this season, keep in mind a single offensive set has 4-5 options within it, and some have more options.  I passed calculus 3, but even my brain would get pretty p---ed off trying to execute Doc's system.  

Any Coach that is forced to cut out 50% of his playbook, THE DAY before playoffs start?!  Really?  This couldn't have been figured out Sooner doc??  

Ok, rant over, thanks for listening

[Chris]

My beef is that Bulls did what Celtics didn't do
Make the Heat play half-court basketball

Sorry, that falls on the coach

How does that fall on the coach?  It was exactly what the C's were trying to do as well.  The problem is, the C's didn't execute it, which allowed the Heat to get out in the open court.  Doc did not make them constantly throw the ball away, fumble it, or shoot a long contested shot after the defense took away what they were trying to do, which led to a long rebound.

The Bulls executed, the C's didn't.  It's on the players.

[the_Bird]

Rivers choice to play Glen Davis so many minutes, and in front of guys like Kristic, Murphy, Powe in the past, Williams, Sheed,  is very suspect.  I don't like that choice at all.  

I just don't understand this at all.  Until the past 2-3 months, Baby Davis was a better player than all of these guys.  Baby "won" playing time over Powe because even before his most recent injuries, Powe was a terrible defensive player.  He could rebound, he could score, but Baby Davis was far better on the defensive side.

'Sheed was TERRIBLE until the playoffs began last year.  Talk about revisionist thinking - people couldn't ride him out of town fast enough.  He played a fair amount anyway - 22+ minutes/game versus Baby's 17.

Krstic is another terrible defensive center, and was no better a rebounder than Davis this year.  Krstic had a defensive rebounding rate of about 16 this year (averaging his numbers in OKC and Boston), Davis was 16.4.  Both were bad, but Baby has at least shown some ability to defend the interior in the past, something Krstic has never been known for doing.

Troy Murphy has done absolutely nothing all season; the dude ain't right.  He's another atrocious defender, even when healthy.

Landlord Williams...  please.

For the majority of the past three seasons, Baby Davis has been the best player of these guys you listed.  Yes, he absolutely sucked at the end of the season.  Doc was playing him and trying to get his confidence going, because frankly what else was he going to do?  We needed to get solid contributions from the bench, which meant that we needed guys like Delonte and Green and - yes, Baby Davis - to step up.  Davis wasn't going to get his confidence back by benching him.

I'm happy to see Baby move on next season, but to blame Doc for playing him too many minutes and then listing THOSE guys as being better options...  I'm sorry, but no.

[Who]

The Celtics did not have the personnel to do what Chicago are doing.

Not an issue with coaching.

Even if we had gotten past the Heat...  man, Chicago is good.  I'm not sure how we'd match up with them, athletically, at all.  Gibson and Noah would be grabbing every offensive rebound, Pierce would have a helluva time with Deng defending them, and Rose is just as quick as Rondo. 

Watching Chicago is really, really discouraging, especially since so many of their better players are young.  Gibson and that other young center are [dang] good defensive players.  Rose is young, Noah is young, Deng's not that old. 

Can you imagine if Wade *had* signed in Chicago last summer?

Yeah, the Celtics would have had a tough time against Chicago without Shaquille O'Neal + with Jermaine O'Neal handcuffed to just 20-24 minutes a night.

With those limitations, Chicago would have beaten the Celtics in the next round.

Without those limitations, and with a healthy Rondo, I still think the Celtics would beat Chicago.

[angryguy77]

If we were not as athletic, we wouldn't have controlled the games in the reg season. We beat them because of our size.

A coach has to make adjustments, which Doc didn't do. It was clear to anyone that Davis was hurting our team and should not have been out there. I would have rather seen Doc at least try to put any of the other bigs out there and lose rather than keep trying the same thing over and over. I get that JO was hurt, but Doc could have put him out there a few more minutes a game.

That falls on the coach. Imo his decision making was the biggest(not only) factor in this series.