Why did the Celtics lose to the Heat? (merged)

[ejk3489]

Yeah, that changes everything. ESPN's justification for the trade is "He just looks mean."

Well, if looking mean is good enough for a $9 million contract, then I'm gonna go scowl at my bosses tomorrow.

Beyond that, it's a ridiculous price to pay for four points and six boards a night, one a Celtics team in transition cannot afford to pay under any circumstances.

Love or hate the trade, Perkins' deal is absurd. I am beyond thrilled Danny didn't pay that price.

Just curious, but how do you evaluate players? You claimed that stats don't mean anything to you when someone brought them up in discussing Rondo, and now Perk is just a "6 point 4 rebound" guy. Well, which is it? If stats aren't everything, it should be clear that what Perk contributes to a team doesn't often show up in the box score...

I don't think that Perk is has looked great in the post season, but there is no way that team makes the WCF's without him and with Green/Krstic.

So Perk hasn't looked great but there is now way that team makes the WCF's without him? Man he is good even when he is mediocre.

Well, maybe they make the WCF's with Krstic on a bum knee and Jeff Green, but I doubt it. If you think Perk was bad on defense, I can't imagine what Gasol and Randolph would do to those two.

[winsomme]

Yeah, that changes everything. ESPN's justification for the trade is "He just looks mean."

Well, if looking mean is good enough for a $9 million contract, then I'm gonna go scowl at my bosses tomorrow.

Beyond that, it's a ridiculous price to pay for four points and six boards a night, one a Celtics team in transition cannot afford to pay under any circumstances.

Love or hate the trade, Perkins' deal is absurd. I am beyond thrilled Danny didn't pay that price.

Just curious, but how do you evaluate players? You claimed that stats don't mean anything to you when someone brought them up in discussing Rondo, and now Perk is just a "6 point 4 rebound" guy. Well, which is it? If stats aren't everything, it should be clear that what Perk contributes to a team doesn't often show up in the box score...

I don't think that Perk is has looked great in the post season, but there is no way that team makes the WCF's without him and with Green/Krstic.

I think most people (myself included) evaluate players based on watching them play.

then, once they've decided how they feel about that player, they go about the task of figuring out how to defend that evaluation.
 

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Yeah, that changes everything. ESPN's justification for the trade is "He just looks mean."

Well, if looking mean is good enough for a $9 million contract, then I'm gonna go scowl at my bosses tomorrow.

Beyond that, it's a ridiculous price to pay for four points and six boards a night, one a Celtics team in transition cannot afford to pay under any circumstances.

Love or hate the trade, Perkins' deal is absurd. I am beyond thrilled Danny didn't pay that price.

Just curious, but how do you evaluate players? You claimed that stats don't mean anything to you when someone brought them up in discussing Rondo, and now Perk is just a "6 point 4 rebound" guy. Well, which is it? If stats aren't everything, it should be clear that what Perk contributes to a team doesn't often show up in the box score...

I don't think that Perk is has looked great in the post season, but there is no way that team makes the WCF's without him and with Green/Krstic.

I'm sorry but I think you are wrong, I think they get to WCF if they had the roster b4 KP... they gave trouble last season to the Champions. I also think they get there if Perk was injured... I watched the games, most of the time they played better w/o KP (w/ Iblocka). If not for Ibaka they wouldn't have, but w/o KP? They would be on the same course! Now, if we had KP then he would have made a huge difference, I think that if we had a hard hitting center we would have beaten Mia. I hope Chi hits them instead of getting hit like we did. Mem is not a paint team, Gasol and Z-Bo hit from outside consistently, Mia goes inside (helps them get confidence when they take outside shots)... that's where KP would have excelled (or a healthy Shaq)!

[winsomme]

Yeah, that changes everything. ESPN's justification for the trade is "He just looks mean."

Well, if looking mean is good enough for a $9 million contract, then I'm gonna go scowl at my bosses tomorrow.

Beyond that, it's a ridiculous price to pay for four points and six boards a night, one a Celtics team in transition cannot afford to pay under any circumstances.

Love or hate the trade, Perkins' deal is absurd. I am beyond thrilled Danny didn't pay that price.

Just curious, but how do you evaluate players? You claimed that stats don't mean anything to you when someone brought them up in discussing Rondo, and now Perk is just a "6 point 4 rebound" guy. Well, which is it? If stats aren't everything, it should be clear that what Perk contributes to a team doesn't often show up in the box score...

I don't think that Perk is has looked great in the post season, but there is no way that team makes the WCF's without him and with Green/Krstic.

I'm sorry but I think you are wrong, I think they get to WCF if they had the roster b4 KP... they gave trouble last season to the Champions. I also think they get there if Perk was injured... I watched the games, most of the time they played better w/o KP (w/ Iblocka). If not for Ibaka they wouldn't have, but w/o KP? They would be on the same course! Now, if we had KP then he would have made a huge difference, I think that if we had a hard hitting center we would have beaten Mia. I hope Chi hits them instead of getting hit like we did. Mem is not a paint team, Gasol and Z-Bo hit from outside consistently, Mia goes inside (helps them get confidence when they take outside shots)... that's where KP would have excelled (or a healthy Shaq)!

yeah but Krstic's defensive weakness and Green's inconsistent play were part of their problems as a team.

and both those guys continued to have the exact same problems here.

[BballTim]

Yeah, that changes everything. ESPN's justification for the trade is "He just looks mean."

Well, if looking mean is good enough for a $9 million contract, then I'm gonna go scowl at my bosses tomorrow.

Beyond that, it's a ridiculous price to pay for four points and six boards a night, one a Celtics team in transition cannot afford to pay under any circumstances.

Love or hate the trade, Perkins' deal is absurd. I am beyond thrilled Danny didn't pay that price.

  Agree that the contract wasn't good for the Celts, but Perk's less than a year removed from major knee surgery. Are you saying that you don't expect his production to improve at all as he becomes healthier?

  That 4/6 guy was a 10/8 guy in 09-10, and a 9/8 guy the year before. He'd no great scorer but he was a good rebounder and defender, I'd expect him to get back to that level of player when he's healthier.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Yeah, that changes everything. ESPN's justification for the trade is "He just looks mean."

Well, if looking mean is good enough for a $9 million contract, then I'm gonna go scowl at my bosses tomorrow.

Beyond that, it's a ridiculous price to pay for four points and six boards a night, one a Celtics team in transition cannot afford to pay under any circumstances.

Love or hate the trade, Perkins' deal is absurd. I am beyond thrilled Danny didn't pay that price.

Just curious, but how do you evaluate players? You claimed that stats don't mean anything to you when someone brought them up in discussing Rondo, and now Perk is just a "6 point 4 rebound" guy. Well, which is it? If stats aren't everything, it should be clear that what Perk contributes to a team doesn't often show up in the box score...

I don't think that Perk is has looked great in the post season, but there is no way that team makes the WCF's without him and with Green/Krstic.

I'm sorry but I think you are wrong, I think they get to WCF if they had the roster b4 KP... they gave trouble last season to the Champions. I also think they get there if Perk was injured... I watched the games, most of the time they played better w/o KP (w/ Iblocka). If not for Ibaka they wouldn't have, but w/o KP? They would be on the same course! Now, if we had KP then he would have made a huge difference, I think that if we had a hard hitting center we would have beaten Mia. I hope Chi hits them instead of getting hit like we did. Mem is not a paint team, Gasol and Z-Bo hit from outside consistently, Mia goes inside (helps them get confidence when they take outside shots)... that's where KP would have excelled (or a healthy Shaq)!

yeah but Krstic's defensive weakness and Green's inconsistent play were part of their problems as a team.

and both those guys continued to have the exact same problems here.

Whoever they used when KP is on the bench could have been the starters, I think Collison. Green should have been benched for Ibaka long ago. NK and Green off the bench and Collison and Ibacka starting would have gotten them to the WCF this season. If you didn't watch the series you probably wouldn't know how badly KP got worked by Mem... I think NK would have been able to close on their guys faster as he is quicker than KP is (NK would have been better for them in the Mem matchup I think)... that is why Collison (and Ibaka) played so well (quickness).

[nickagneta]

Yeah, that changes everything. ESPN's justification for the trade is "He just looks mean."

Well, if looking mean is good enough for a $9 million contract, then I'm gonna go scowl at my bosses tomorrow.

Beyond that, it's a ridiculous price to pay for four points and six boards a night, one a Celtics team in transition cannot afford to pay under any circumstances.

Love or hate the trade, Perkins' deal is absurd. I am beyond thrilled Danny didn't pay that price.

Just curious, but how do you evaluate players? You claimed that stats don't mean anything to you when someone brought them up in discussing Rondo, and now Perk is just a "6 point 4 rebound" guy. Well, which is it? If stats aren't everything, it should be clear that what Perk contributes to a team doesn't often show up in the box score...

I don't think that Perk is has looked great in the post season, but there is no way that team makes the WCF's without him and with Green/Krstic.

I'm sorry but I think you are wrong, I think they get to WCF if they had the roster b4 KP... they gave trouble last season to the Champions. I also think they get there if Perk was injured... I watched the games, most of the time they played better w/o KP (w/ Iblocka). If not for Ibaka they wouldn't have, but w/o KP? They would be on the same course! Now, if we had KP then he would have made a huge difference, I think that if we had a hard hitting center we would have beaten Mia. I hope Chi hits them instead of getting hit like we did. Mem is not a paint team, Gasol and Z-Bo hit from outside consistently, Mia goes inside (helps them get confidence when they take outside shots)... that's where KP would have excelled (or a healthy Shaq)!

yeah but Krstic's defensive weakness and Green's inconsistent play were part of their problems as a team.

and both those guys continued to have the exact same problems here.

Whoever they used when KP is on the bench could have been the starters, I think Collison. Green should have been benched for Ibaka long ago. NK and Green off the bench and Collison and Ibacka starting would have gotten them to the WCF this season. If you didn't watch the series you probably wouldn't know how badly KP got worked by Mem... I think NK would have been able to close on their guys faster as he is quicker than KP is (NK would have been better for them in the Mem matchup I think)... that is why Collison (and Ibaka) played so well (quickness).

Gotta agree with ImShakHeIsShaq in that Perk got seriously worked in this series against Memphis and his defense on Gasol was poor. Gasol is an 11 PPG/ 7 RPG player that just went for 15.5/10 playing against Perk and company.

I think OKC still goes to the WCF even without Perk as long as they finished in the same slot. Perk has been a non-factor in the playoffs. Thing is there's no guarantee they keep that slot as Perk's trade to OKC revitalized that team and they played very well once Perk got there.

[OsirusCeltics]

Perkins is on his way to the conference finals for the 3rd time...haters and Danny Ainge can get together at his place and watch the WCF games together.

So we should have kept Scalabrine because his team is in the conference finals?

[OsirusCeltics]

Yeah, that changes everything. ESPN's justification for the trade is "He just looks mean."

Well, if looking mean is good enough for a $9 million contract, then I'm gonna go scowl at my bosses tomorrow.

Beyond that, it's a ridiculous price to pay for four points and six boards a night, one a Celtics team in transition cannot afford to pay under any circumstances.

Love or hate the trade, Perkins' deal is absurd. I am beyond thrilled Danny didn't pay that price.

Just curious, but how do you evaluate players? You claimed that stats don't mean anything to you when someone brought them up in discussing Rondo, and now Perk is just a "6 point 4 rebound" guy. Well, which is it? If stats aren't everything, it should be clear that what Perk contributes to a team doesn't often show up in the box score...

I don't think that Perk is has looked great in the post season, but there is no way that team makes the WCF's without him and with Green/Krstic.

So Perk hasn't looked great but there is now way that team makes the WCF's without him? Man he is good even when he is mediocre.

So Ibaka became invisible?

[BballTim]

Perkins is on his way to the conference finals for the 3rd time...haters and Danny Ainge can get together at his place and watch the WCF games together.

So we should have kept Scalabrine because his team is in the conference finals?

  That and his rebounding.

[wahz]

Yeah, that changes everything. ESPN's justification for the trade is "He just looks mean."

Well, if looking mean is good enough for a $9 million contract, then I'm gonna go scowl at my bosses tomorrow.

Beyond that, it's a ridiculous price to pay for four points and six boards a night, one a Celtics team in transition cannot afford to pay under any circumstances.

Love or hate the trade, Perkins' deal is absurd. I am beyond thrilled Danny didn't pay that price.

Just curious, but how do you evaluate players? You claimed that stats don't mean anything to you when someone brought them up in discussing Rondo, and now Perk is just a "6 point 4 rebound" guy. Well, which is it? If stats aren't everything, it should be clear that what Perk contributes to a team doesn't often show up in the box score...

I don't think that Perk is has looked great in the post season, but there is no way that team makes the WCF's without him and with Green/Krstic.

TP.

I don't agree with this at all. Perk has been lousy and they would have easily won with Krstic and Green instead. Truth is they are good enough that without all three guys they lose some depth but they played without foul trouble and they are young. They would have won with none of those three.
Ibaka and Nick Collison have been plenty enough up front so far.

BUT someone said something about haters as in Perk Haters. Im sure a lot of people defending the trade to some degree are like me: It kills us Perk isn't a Celtic anymore. I loved the guy.

[KGDunks]

The Big Three for just being too old and not able to outperform LeBron and Wade.

[barefacedmonk]

Perkins is on his way to the conference finals for the 3rd time...haters and Danny Ainge can get together at his place and watch the WCF games together.

So we should have kept Scalabrine because his team is in the conference finals?

Yes...because that's what I was trying to say...read it again..haters can keep hating...Perk's team is in the conference finals...and Danny Ainge and us will watch his team play.

Also, by your asinine logic we should have kept Mikki Moore...same result...second round exit.

[BballTim]

Also, by your asinine logic we should have kept Mikki Moore.

  Losing to the Heat isn't traumatic enough, we need to bring him up as well? Egads.

[winsomme]

Yeah, that changes everything. ESPN's justification for the trade is "He just looks mean."

Well, if looking mean is good enough for a $9 million contract, then I'm gonna go scowl at my bosses tomorrow.

Beyond that, it's a ridiculous price to pay for four points and six boards a night, one a Celtics team in transition cannot afford to pay under any circumstances.

Love or hate the trade, Perkins' deal is absurd. I am beyond thrilled Danny didn't pay that price.

Just curious, but how do you evaluate players? You claimed that stats don't mean anything to you when someone brought them up in discussing Rondo, and now Perk is just a "6 point 4 rebound" guy. Well, which is it? If stats aren't everything, it should be clear that what Perk contributes to a team doesn't often show up in the box score...

I don't think that Perk is has looked great in the post season, but there is no way that team makes the WCF's without him and with Green/Krstic.

TP.

I don't agree with this at all. Perk has been lousy and they would have easily won with Krstic and Green instead. Truth is they are good enough that without all three guys they lose some depth but they played without foul trouble and they are young. They would have won with none of those three.
Ibaka and Nick Collison have been plenty enough up front so far.

BUT someone said something about haters as in Perk Haters. Im sure a lot of people defending the trade to some degree are like me: It kills us Perk isn't a Celtic anymore. I loved the guy.

I've been following OKC because I'm a huge Durant fan and I can say that this is a different team since the Perk trade.

Collison has been there forever and has never been "enough" of anything.

We can discuss stats all we want but Presti knew that in order to get his team to be a serious playoff contender he needed to get a hard-nosed, defensive-minded center.

he went out and got that player in Perk and now he has his contender.

Perk certainly is not the only reason this team is still playing, but he has made a difference. For people who have followed this team there is no doubt about that.