Enough with the Rondo trade talks

[Celtics18]

I love Rondo but if we can get CP3 I'd be all for it.

Derek Fisher is poor defensively, which Chris Paul thoroughly exploited.  CP even destroyed Kobe when Kobe was guarding him.  But Rondo?  All they had to do was keep Kobe 8 feet from the hoop to guard Rondo which enabled Kobe to get 10million rebounds in game 7.  Rondo is so easily mitigated by other teams its not funny.  I love his rebounding, defense, and timing (especially on fast breaks), but Rondo needs a bunch of scorers and vets around him to succeed.  

Also ask yourself this:  Who would other players rather play with, Chris Paul or Rondo?

Rondo is a great trade asset b/c he's a very good PG with a friendly contract.  There's nothing wrong with thinking of ways he could be traded.

  If Rondo is so easily mitigated by other teams its not funny then we wouldn't have advanced past the first round in any of the last three playoffs. Certainly we'd have never made it to the 2010 finals.

Yes, but you need to take the big 3's decline into consideration.  Offensively KG has declined a lot, I think that was shown against Miami quite a bit.  He just couldn't handle playing inside anymore.  Pierce still is a very efficient player, but now against your elite defenders he has problems.   Against your elite defenders, he ends up staying out around the perimeter shooting too many outside shots.  Ray Allen is what he is, he's a good 3rd or 4th option on a winning team.  Ask him to be anymore than that and you start to have problems.  I love Rondo, his defense, passing ability and rebounding are great out of the PG position, but when Rondo becomes the best or second best player on your team, you start to have issues.  Teams just do not respect his scoring enough and it makes things more difficult for the other guys on the floor.  Now if Rondo can improve his 15-18 foot shot over the summer and start taking and making it on a consistent basis then I'd be all for keeping him, but if not, it may be time to look for someone else.  We need someone to keep the defense honest, if his man is going to sag off and just help elsewhere we're in major trouble.  Pierce, Allen and KG just aren't quick enough anymore to deal with double teams successfully.

That's a confusing argument.  Given that the big three are declining as you say, why did they shoot career highs or close to it from the field this year?  How did they all get so many open looks if the defense is constantly sagging off Rondo to double team?

I'd say the reasons for the above are primarily because of having Rajon Rondo as their point guard, and not in spite of it.

I think we'll able to find players to complement Rondo once our "big three" ride of into the sunset.  We don't need one of the top five super stars in the league, but we do need players who are athletic, can make shots and finish at the rim and who will be able to effectively buy into Doc and Rondo's philosophy of playing hard nosed, smart, helping defense and collective unselfish offense.  

[mc34]

Exactly it's a joke. Danny Ainge has said about a hundred times he wouldn't trade Rondo. He's on a bargain contract and can only get better.

So the only way Rondo is available is if Ainge has come out and said he was really interested in moving him?

And how is he only going to get better? His jumpshot has not improved as much as everyone expected, if at all. As the Big Three decline, he will be forced to score (either via jumpers or at the FT) and I don't think he is capable of taking over scoring burdens for long periods of time.

A game here, a game there, but not for an entire series, and definitely not an entire season.

Rondo's jumper has looked a lot better this season. According to Statscube Rondo is shooting 41% from midrange, which is about the league average, I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong on that last part). For comparison, Rose is shooting 40% from midrange, albeit on a larger sample size. Either way the point is that Rondo's jump shot is making steps towards becoming respectable.

Yup...I already said this in the Westbrook-Rondo thread, but the league average FG% from 16-23 FT for a point guard is 39%, and Rondo shoots 41%. It's not really a small sample size either because he attempted 223 shots from that area (in comparison to Rose, who shot about 300+ shots).

Believe it or not, there were plenty of other point guards that shot worse than Rondo this year. I'm not saying he's a better pure shooter than these guys, but he was at least as good as many of them:

http://www.hoopdata.com/shotstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PG&yr=2011&gp=0&mins=30

All he needs to work on is getting more consistent game to game imo. There are stretches where he's knocking down the jumper with regularity, and then there will be a few weeks where he is ice cold. But for much of this season (aside from Februrary/middle of March) I thought he was shooting pretty well...it's his FT shooting he needs to improve on the most.

Nah, I don't buy it.

Numbers aren't everything. How many of Rose's FGA are with nobody within 5 feet of him? Teams give him wide open jumpers from the elbow out. And he still only hits them at a 41% clip. Give Pierce, Garnett, Allen that shot uncontested, and they knock it down like 70% of the time.

Even if you think he is "above average" at the midrange, he is still a very poor 3-point shooter and although he is good (at times) at getting to the rim, he is one of the worst FT-shooting guards in the league.

Seeing Dallas want him to take any shot, albeit a three point shot to win the game, proves nobody is scared of his shot.

And I wouldn't compare Rondo's jumper to Rose (or any other elite PG), regardless of the midrange %'s. If Rose hits a few jumpers, it opens up the rest of the floor for him. If Rondo hits one, the defense dares him to make another. If he makes two, the defense dares him to make a third. Rinse and repeat.

Let's be honest, if a Celtics possession ends with a Rondo jumper, the opposing defense is happy. End of story.

Sure, Rondo gets way more wide open looks than Rose. But your original argument is that Rondo's jumper hasn't shown improvement, which is simply not true. Those same wide open looks he's getting from mid-range, I think I read somewhere that he shot a horrid 29% (or something like that) in his rookie year. Don't know the stats but it definately looks better this year than it did last year too. He's improving.

[jaybahs]

I know it's fun to imagine ... but seriously ... Rondo's not going anywhere ... stop it.

[jimmehx]

I agree but this probably didn't need a thread on it's own.

I'd trade rondo to acquire CP3 or D-will. And NOT any of the ideas floating round the board at the moment.

[JoT]

I don't think people on here are serious. I think many are just joking and since the Celtics are out of the playoffs and Rondo can be trade bait they just start Rondo trade topics.

[Marcus13]

He's the only piece that could bring any real value in return.  I definitely think he's available at the right price

[Bankshot]

He will only be traded if we can land CP3. But he's not untouchable imo.

[celticsgreen4lyf]

I think he can be traded. I don't think he should be our franchise player in the future when he starts to lose his speen things will go down hill since he can't shoot

[paulcowens]

I know it's fun to imagine ... but seriously ... Rondo's not going anywhere ... stop it.

I don't get why it's fun to imagine.   I think what is fun to imagine is Rondo continuing to improve, and - in particular - shooting better (especially from the line) and playing more consistently and more aggressively.  Now THAT, to me, is fun to think about.

[CelticG1]

I know it's fun to imagine ... but seriously ... Rondo's not going anywhere ... stop it.

I don't get why it's fun to imagine.   I think what is fun to imagine is Rondo continuing to improve, and - in particular - shooting better (especially from the line) and playing more consistently and more aggressively.  Now THAT, to me, is fun to think about.

Fun to think about but realistic? Probably not. I just don't want to go through a whole nother year of hoping and thinking this all season just to get to the playoffs and see Rondo holding on to the ball at the free throw line looking to pass to someone. And then next summer people saying the same thing "he needs to be more consistent" "he needs to work on his shooting" Wasn't it Rondo himself who said "I don't need to be good at shooting because I can drive to the hoop and get a layup whenever I want" or something like that?

I just wouldn't bet on Rondo improving on his shot and if he doesn't I don't see what else he can do to improve or even improve his value. It is such a large gapping hole right now but I think if he plateaus next year then he will have lost a lot of value where now I think his value is still very high (although not as high as last year)

[Moranis]

I'd move Rondo for CP3.

How many future first round draft picks would you be willing to include?

I'd be pretty comfortable with Rondo + Bradley + this year's draftee + Clippers pick.

I'd do that if he re-signed (not if we were just hoping he would re-sign), but I would still trade Rondo for Paul even without the guarantee he would re-sign.

I'd also take back Okafor and whatever other bad contracts N.O. wanted to unload by including JO, Shaq, BBD or Green (in sign and trades), etc.

I think this is a fairly reasonable trade for both teams.

Boston gets Paul and Okafor
New Orleans gets Rondo, J. O'Neal, Bradley, Davis (4 mill to start), and Green (6 mill to start), Clippers 1st, 2012 Bos 1st

[Capricious]

The topic of rondo having no jump shot makes me rage beyond belief.  3 of his 5 years hes hit long 2's at the league average.

The label sticks because of his reluctance to shoot it / announcers constantly "reminding" us.

The kid needs to work on his FTs (inexcusable), but he has a jump shot.

[Chris]

The topic of rondo having no jump shot makes me rage beyond belief.  3 of his 5 years hes hit long 2's at the league average.

The label sticks because of his reluctance to shoot it / announcers constantly "reminding" us.

The kid needs to work on his FTs (inexcusable), but he has a jump shot.

This is why stats are decieving.  Considering how wide open he is for most of his jumpshots compared to the average player, he should be shooting well above the league average.  When Rondo taking a wide open 20 footer is not a higher percentage shot than Pierce shooting a contested 25 footer, its a problem.

Not something that can't be overcome, but it is absolutely a problem that makes things harder on the offense than if he was able to hit those shots with some regularity.

[BballTim]

The topic of rondo having no jump shot makes me rage beyond belief.  3 of his 5 years hes hit long 2's at the league average.

The label sticks because of his reluctance to shoot it / announcers constantly "reminding" us.

The kid needs to work on his FTs (inexcusable), but he has a jump shot.

This is why stats are decieving.  Considering how wide open he is for most of his jumpshots compared to the average player, he should be shooting well above the league average.  When Rondo taking a wide open 20 footer is not a higher percentage shot than Pierce shooting a contested 25 footer, its a problem.

Not something that can't be overcome, but it is absolutely a problem that makes things harder on the offense than if he was able to hit those shots with some regularity.

  Pierce isn't the average player though. While I don't think teams make an effort to close down Rondo I think that there are a lot more wide open outside shots taken in the nba than people realize.

[sdceltsfan]

Rondo's contract is probably the best value out of any all-star player in the league for what his production is.....sure we could probably traded Rondo, Davis, and a 1st rounder for CP3 (something like that), but the way the salary cap is trending, do we want to put that much more money in to one player, when we already have a guy running our team who can produce the same numbers (and is less injury prone)

     The way i see it, Rondo + Cap Space > Chris Paul. It is a team sport last time I checked.