Enough with the Rondo trade talks

[FrDrake]

Rondo has a ton of heart, is a great distributor, has great instincts, and has very good court vision.

That said, he's not as good as Chris Paul.  Paul would instantly elevate our championship chances next year.  He may be the one semi-realistic player that we can acquire that would extend our current window.  (Other guys, including of course Howard, would, but I don't think we can get them, especially not for next season.)

There are very few players I'd trade Rondo for, but Chris Paul is clearly one of them.

Roy said it best here.

Disagree with both of you.  CP has bad wheels and his next knee surgery will likely be microfracture surgery.  His game relies on speed and quickness so the bad knees are a MAJOR red flag.

I'd rather have Rondo for 8-10 years at an affordable cost than CP3 at top dollar coming off the bench like Brandon Roy in a couple seasons.

[u2larkin04]

Rondo is Pierce, in that we will probably have to deal with stupid trade rumors every offseason.

[FallGuy]

 I think the guy Doc really wants is Deron Williams (he said as much in an interview a year or so ago). Ainge may prefer CP3. Either of them is a major upgrade over Rondo in terms of their ability to lead a team to a title. Rondo is too critically flawed to do that, IMO.

You absolutely make a deal for either one if you're more concerned with winning titles than sentimentality.

[KGDunks]

Exactly it's a joke. Danny Ainge has said about a hundred times he wouldn't trade Rondo. He's on a bargain contract and can only get better.

[cman88]

the thing is, people are talking about Rondo as if hes already reached his peak as a player....hes only 25 and already one of the best point guards in the league and became an assist machine this year...hes a consistent jumper away from being derrick rose minus a 3point shot with better passing...and the jumper WILL come...anyone can see that hes improved from last year already. its a matter of time..just look at Jason kidd

Chris paul? hes good but hes expensive, not as much of a passer and IMO hes already reached his peak

[GreenEnvy]

Exactly it's a joke. Danny Ainge has said about a hundred times he wouldn't trade Rondo. He's on a bargain contract and can only get better.

So the only way Rondo is available is if Ainge has come out and said he was really interested in moving him?

And how is he only going to get better? His jumpshot has not improved as much as everyone expected, if at all. As the Big Three decline, he will be forced to score (either via jumpers or at the FT) and I don't think he is capable of taking over scoring burdens for long periods of time.

A game here, a game there, but not for an entire series, and definitely not an entire season.

[CelticG1]

the thing is, people are talking about Rondo as if hes already reached his peak as a player....hes only 25 and already one of the best point guards in the league and became an assist machine this year...hes a consistent jumper away from being derrick rose minus a 3point shot with better passing...and the jumper WILL come...anyone can see that hes improved from last year already. its a matter of time..just look at Jason kidd

Chris paul? hes good but hes expensive, not as much of a passer and IMO hes already reached his peak

There is so much I disagree with here but this last part just doesn't make sense to me. It's like saying you don't want Lebron or Wade because they have reached their peak. I mean come on we would be so incredibly lucky if Rondo turned into Chris Paul in the next 3 or 4 years.

Chris Paul is a franchise MVP type player. Rondo is an all-star but I would be pretty shocked if he even came close to an MVP type player like Paul or Rose. Bottom line is that they are on a whole nother level than him.

And you can talk about his jumpshot improving or if he can get a consistent jumper. Well that's been the theme for the last 4 years and I don't know if anyone can say with a straight face that they have seen improvements.

[mc34]

Exactly it's a joke. Danny Ainge has said about a hundred times he wouldn't trade Rondo. He's on a bargain contract and can only get better.

So the only way Rondo is available is if Ainge has come out and said he was really interested in moving him?

And how is he only going to get better? His jumpshot has not improved as much as everyone expected, if at all. As the Big Three decline, he will be forced to score (either via jumpers or at the FT) and I don't think he is capable of taking over scoring burdens for long periods of time.

A game here, a game there, but not for an entire series, and definitely not an entire season.

Rondo's jumper has looked a lot better this season. According to Statscube Rondo is shooting 41% from midrange, which is about the league average, I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong on that last part). For comparison, Rose is shooting 40% from midrange, albeit on a larger sample size. Either way the point is that Rondo's jump shot is making steps towards becoming respectable.

[ejk3489]

Exactly it's a joke. Danny Ainge has said about a hundred times he wouldn't trade Rondo. He's on a bargain contract and can only get better.

So the only way Rondo is available is if Ainge has come out and said he was really interested in moving him?

And how is he only going to get better? His jumpshot has not improved as much as everyone expected, if at all. As the Big Three decline, he will be forced to score (either via jumpers or at the FT) and I don't think he is capable of taking over scoring burdens for long periods of time.

A game here, a game there, but not for an entire series, and definitely not an entire season.

Rondo's jumper has looked a lot better this season. According to Statscube Rondo is shooting 41% from midrange, which is about the league average, I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong on that last part). For comparison, Rose is shooting 40% from midrange, albeit on a larger sample size. Either way the point is that Rondo's jump shot is making steps towards becoming respectable.

Yup...I already said this in the Westbrook-Rondo thread, but the league average FG% from 16-23 FT for a point guard is 39%, and Rondo shoots 41%. It's not really a small sample size either because he attempted 223 shots from that area (in comparison to Rose, who shot about 300+ shots).

Believe it or not, there were plenty of other point guards that shot worse than Rondo this year. I'm not saying he's a better pure shooter than these guys, but he was at least as good as many of them:

http://www.hoopdata.com/shotstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PG&yr=2011&gp=0&mins=30

All he needs to work on is getting more consistent game to game imo. There are stretches where he's knocking down the jumper with regularity, and then there will be a few weeks where he is ice cold. But for much of this season (aside from Februrary/middle of March) I thought he was shooting pretty well...it's his FT shooting he needs to improve on the most.

[GreenEnvy]

Exactly it's a joke. Danny Ainge has said about a hundred times he wouldn't trade Rondo. He's on a bargain contract and can only get better.

So the only way Rondo is available is if Ainge has come out and said he was really interested in moving him?

And how is he only going to get better? His jumpshot has not improved as much as everyone expected, if at all. As the Big Three decline, he will be forced to score (either via jumpers or at the FT) and I don't think he is capable of taking over scoring burdens for long periods of time.

A game here, a game there, but not for an entire series, and definitely not an entire season.

Rondo's jumper has looked a lot better this season. According to Statscube Rondo is shooting 41% from midrange, which is about the league average, I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong on that last part). For comparison, Rose is shooting 40% from midrange, albeit on a larger sample size. Either way the point is that Rondo's jump shot is making steps towards becoming respectable.

Yup...I already said this in the Westbrook-Rondo thread, but the league average FG% from 16-23 FT for a point guard is 39%, and Rondo shoots 41%. It's not really a small sample size either because he attempted 223 shots from that area (in comparison to Rose, who shot about 300+ shots).

Believe it or not, there were plenty of other point guards that shot worse than Rondo this year. I'm not saying he's a better pure shooter than these guys, but he was at least as good as many of them:

http://www.hoopdata.com/shotstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PG&yr=2011&gp=0&mins=30

All he needs to work on is getting more consistent game to game imo. There are stretches where he's knocking down the jumper with regularity, and then there will be a few weeks where he is ice cold. But for much of this season (aside from Februrary/middle of March) I thought he was shooting pretty well...it's his FT shooting he needs to improve on the most.

Nah, I don't buy it.

Numbers aren't everything. How many of Rose's FGA are with nobody within 5 feet of him? Teams give him wide open jumpers from the elbow out. And he still only hits them at a 41% clip. Give Pierce, Garnett, Allen that shot uncontested, and they knock it down like 70% of the time.

Even if you think he is "above average" at the midrange, he is still a very poor 3-point shooter and although he is good (at times) at getting to the rim, he is one of the worst FT-shooting guards in the league.

Seeing Dallas want him to take any shot, albeit a three point shot to win the game, proves nobody is scared of his shot.

And I wouldn't compare Rondo's jumper to Rose (or any other elite PG), regardless of the midrange %'s. If Rose hits a few jumpers, it opens up the rest of the floor for him. If Rondo hits one, the defense dares him to make another. If he makes two, the defense dares him to make a third. Rinse and repeat.

Let's be honest, if a Celtics possession ends with a Rondo jumper, the opposing defense is happy. End of story.

[Celtics18]

Exactly it's a joke. Danny Ainge has said about a hundred times he wouldn't trade Rondo. He's on a bargain contract and can only get better.

So the only way Rondo is available is if Ainge has come out and said he was really interested in moving him?

And how is he only going to get better? His jumpshot has not improved as much as everyone expected, if at all. As the Big Three decline, he will be forced to score (either via jumpers or at the FT) and I don't think he is capable of taking over scoring burdens for long periods of time.

A game here, a game there, but not for an entire series, and definitely not an entire season.

Rondo's jumper has looked a lot better this season. According to Statscube Rondo is shooting 41% from midrange, which is about the league average, I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong on that last part). For comparison, Rose is shooting 40% from midrange, albeit on a larger sample size. Either way the point is that Rondo's jump shot is making steps towards becoming respectable.

Yup...I already said this in the Westbrook-Rondo thread, but the league average FG% from 16-23 FT for a point guard is 39%, and Rondo shoots 41%. It's not really a small sample size either because he attempted 223 shots from that area (in comparison to Rose, who shot about 300+ shots).

Believe it or not, there were plenty of other point guards that shot worse than Rondo this year. I'm not saying he's a better pure shooter than these guys, but he was at least as good as many of them:

http://www.hoopdata.com/shotstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PG&yr=2011&gp=0&mins=30

All he needs to work on is getting more consistent game to game imo. There are stretches where he's knocking down the jumper with regularity, and then there will be a few weeks where he is ice cold. But for much of this season (aside from Februrary/middle of March) I thought he was shooting pretty well...it's his FT shooting he needs to improve on the most.

Nah, I don't buy it.

Numbers aren't everything. How many of Rose's FGA are with nobody within 5 feet of him? Teams give him wide open jumpers from the elbow out. And he still only hits them at a 41% clip. Give Pierce, Garnett, Allen that shot uncontested, and they knock it down like 70% of the time.

Even if you think he is "above average" at the midrange, he is still a very poor 3-point shooter and although he is good (at times) at getting to the rim, he is one of the worst FT-shooting guards in the league.

Seeing Dallas want him to take any shot, albeit a three point shot to win the game, proves nobody is scared of his shot.

And I wouldn't compare Rondo's jumper to Rose (or any other elite PG), regardless of the midrange %'s. If Rose hits a few jumpers, it opens up the rest of the floor for him. If Rondo hits one, the defense dares him to make another. If he makes two, the defense dares him to make a third. Rinse and repeat.

Let's be honest, if a Celtics possession ends with a Rondo jumper, the opposing defense is happy. End of story.

Not quite.

A guy like Derrick Rose takes a lot more jumpers and a lot more contested ones partially because he needs to be the primary scorer on his team.  Rondo doesn't, and has never needed to be that kind of scorer on this team.  Therefore, he's only developed into one of the top two or three playmakers in the world instead.   

[ejk3489]

Nah, I don't buy it.

Numbers aren't everything. How many of Rose's FGA are with nobody within 5 feet of him? Teams give him wide open jumpers from the elbow out. And he still only hits them at a 41% clip. Give Pierce, Garnett, Allen that shot uncontested, and they knock it down like 70% of the time.

I highly doubt Pierce, Garnett, or Allen would hit that shot 70% of the time if they were open. It's not like they are being highly contested everytime down the court...they do get open some of the time. I do think they would shoot better than 41%, but then again I'm not comparing Rondo to three of the best jump shooters of all time.

Even if you think he is "above average" at the midrange, he is still a very poor 3-point shooter and although he is good (at times) at getting to the rim, he is one of the worst FT-shooting guards in the league.

Rondo's 3pt shooting doesn't mean much to me, but like I said, I think the biggest improvement he needs to make is his FT shooting...I'm not arguing that.

Seeing Dallas want him to take any shot, albeit a three point shot to win the game, proves nobody is scared of his shot.

Well, of course they want him to take the game winner...no one wants to make Pierce or Allen take the last shot.

And I wouldn't compare Rondo's jumper to Rose (or any other elite PG), regardless of the midrange %'s. If Rose hits a few jumpers, it opens up the rest of the floor for him. If Rondo hits one, the defense dares him to make another. If he makes two, the defense dares him to make a third. Rinse and repeat.

Let's be honest, if a Celtics possession ends with a Rondo jumper, the opposing defense is happy. End of story.

Ok, well what do you want Rondo to do? If his FG% means nothing in comparison to other elite PG's, how can you tell if he's improved at all? Regardless of how open he is, you can't just ignore that he's been an average/above average jump shooter in relation to every other point guard in the league. I'm not saying he's as good as Chris Paul or Nash, but I don't think he's the worst shooter in the league like others have claimed.

[BballTim]

Exactly it's a joke. Danny Ainge has said about a hundred times he wouldn't trade Rondo. He's on a bargain contract and can only get better.

So the only way Rondo is available is if Ainge has come out and said he was really interested in moving him?

And how is he only going to get better? His jumpshot has not improved as much as everyone expected, if at all. As the Big Three decline, he will be forced to score (either via jumpers or at the FT) and I don't think he is capable of taking over scoring burdens for long periods of time.

A game here, a game there, but not for an entire series, and definitely not an entire season.

Rondo's jumper has looked a lot better this season. According to Statscube Rondo is shooting 41% from midrange, which is about the league average, I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong on that last part). For comparison, Rose is shooting 40% from midrange, albeit on a larger sample size. Either way the point is that Rondo's jump shot is making steps towards becoming respectable.

Yup...I already said this in the Westbrook-Rondo thread, but the league average FG% from 16-23 FT for a point guard is 39%, and Rondo shoots 41%. It's not really a small sample size either because he attempted 223 shots from that area (in comparison to Rose, who shot about 300+ shots).

Believe it or not, there were plenty of other point guards that shot worse than Rondo this year. I'm not saying he's a better pure shooter than these guys, but he was at least as good as many of them:

http://www.hoopdata.com/shotstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PG&yr=2011&gp=0&mins=30

All he needs to work on is getting more consistent game to game imo. There are stretches where he's knocking down the jumper with regularity, and then there will be a few weeks where he is ice cold. But for much of this season (aside from Februrary/middle of March) I thought he was shooting pretty well...it's his FT shooting he needs to improve on the most.

Nah, I don't buy it.

Numbers aren't everything. How many of Rose's FGA are with nobody within 5 feet of him? Teams give him wide open jumpers from the elbow out. And he still only hits them at a 41% clip. Give Pierce, Garnett, Allen that shot uncontested, and they knock it down like 70% of the time.

Even if you think he is "above average" at the midrange, he is still a very poor 3-point shooter and although he is good (at times) at getting to the rim, he is one of the worst FT-shooting guards in the league.

Seeing Dallas want him to take any shot, albeit a three point shot to win the game, proves nobody is scared of his shot.

And I wouldn't compare Rondo's jumper to Rose (or any other elite PG), regardless of the midrange %'s. If Rose hits a few jumpers, it opens up the rest of the floor for him. If Rondo hits one, the defense dares him to make another. If he makes two, the defense dares him to make a third. Rinse and repeat.

Let's be honest, if a Celtics possession ends with a Rondo jumper, the opposing defense is happy. End of story.

  A couple of points. I agree with you that Rondo's jumpers are rarely contested. I agree with you that an outside shot from Rondo is the shot defenses want us to take. It's less efficient than anything we get from a Rondo pass and it's less efficient than a Rondo drive.

  One thing I'd like to point out is that a lot of outside shots in general are fairly uncontested. It's not just Rondo. Teams drive and dish or swing the ball around to an open player who takes the shot before the defense can get to him. You see it all the time. You claim that if you give KG those long uncontested jumpers he'd hit 70% of them. But if you watch the Celts you'll see KG take a decent amount of uncontested perimeter jumpers, and I'm pretty sure he hits well under 70% of them.

  I'd also like to point out that you're saying that if a Celtics possession ends with a Rondo jumper, the opposing defense is happy. And I've said that I agree with it. But don't you think that defenses are just as happy if not happier if a Bulls possession ends with a Rose midrange jumper? If not, why not, as he only hits 40% of them? Why wouldn't a defense want that? Wouldn't we rather let LeBron take outside shots than get to the rim? Wouldn't we rather have LeBron take an outside shot than Jones or House? Isn't Bosh a pretty good midrange shooter, and didn't he take a lot of uncontested midrange shots against us?

  Also, when you claim that Rondo is a poor 3 point shooter you have to keep in mind that he takes such a small amount of them that a pretty large portion of them are last second heaves. He's generally not that bad at them when he takes them in the flow of the game.

[Chris]

Right now, I feel the same way about Rondo as I felt about Perkins about a year and a half ago.  I think Danny completely understands his value, however, I think he also simply does not like his game that much. 

So, while I don't think there is any way he trades Rondo for 50 cents on the dollar (or 75 cents on the dollar), I think he will be very aggressive trying to move him for value over the next 15 months or so. 

I think, while he feels like he is a very good fit for this current team, he is not a player to build a team around. 

I only hope, he doesn't make the same mistake he made with the Perk trade, and make it at midseason.  We have seen over and over again that this team is just not good at dealing with significant changes midseason (and I am not sure really any team is for that matter). 

[MBz]

Right now, I feel the same way about Rondo as I felt about Perkins about a year and a half ago.  I think Danny completely understands his value, however, I think he also simply does not like his game that much. 

So, while I don't think there is any way he trades Rondo for 50 cents on the dollar (or 75 cents on the dollar), I think he will be very aggressive trying to move him for value over the next 15 months or so. 

I think, while he feels like he is a very good fit for this current team, he is not a player to build a team around. 

I only hope, he doesn't make the same mistake he made with the Perk trade, and make it at midseason.  We have seen over and over again that this team is just not good at dealing with significant changes midseason (and I am not sure really any team is for that matter). 

Exactly.  Also he has the most trade value on this team.  He has 4 more years of reasonable salary left and he's a young all-star point guard.  The issue is as you said, he's not a player to build a team around.  For Rondo to be successful you need scorers around him like we have now in Allen, Pierce and KG.  We don't have the cap space to go out and find a center to play with those 4 to make us a contender and as we stand now we will not be a legit contender.  We won't be able to get by Miami and Chicago with our current roster.  They're going to get better while as our guys get older we will be on the decline.  I love Rondo, but if you can put together a package to get CP3, you have to do it.  As this team gets older we need to find other people to score and Rondo is simply not a scorer.  Also, I think if you can put a package together where you snag a starting center and a lesser starting point guard you do it as well.