2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread

[StartOrien]

Nash can adapt to his surroundings ... but I thought his impact declined pretty significantly when he changed his game to fit around Shaquille + between his play in Phoenix to Dallas.

I thought the willingness to do this showed he's able and willing to adapt and still be an efficient player, even though stylistically what he was being asked to do was the complete opposite of what he had become used to.

My teams kind of a mix between the two, it's still an extremely fast paced offense but he'd be asked to do less.

[Rondo2287]

Some questions:

Dallas:  I love your top players and they can really dominate a game.  However, I think your bench may be one of the weaker ones.  Do you think mixing up some of your top players to play with the bench will be successful? I can't see Shaq, Gervin, and Baylor getting there shots if all on the court at the same time, your thoughts on this?

Hey Kwhitt, sorry I missed this.  I actually think that my bench is one of the stronger ones in the game if not the strongest.  My strategy in this game was to bypass some talent for fit.  Alot of the players that you see on other teams benches are used to playing 40 minutes a game and getting their points after getting into the flow of the game.  In this excercize they will not have that luxury.  

That is why I took guys like, Manu, Bowen, Silas, Schrempf, and Chaney, and Odom.  They are all guys that are familiar with and have been incredibly effective coming off the bench and conributing.

[GreenFaith1819]

Some questions:

Memphis:  Do you think choosing Pierce from 01-02 where he was in a mindset of that he is the main guy and more a offensive "hog" (shot 6 3's that year while at a good % albeit) will be a detriment to the team?  Will his effectiveness be limited by playing next to LeBron.  Pierce was a different player then than compared to 2008 where he knew how to play with other greats.

Atlanta:  There are a lot of teams in these exercise that have very good fontlines. Do you see your front court holding your team back at all?

Chicago:  You have a deep team with good ball movement.  Who will be the "go-to-guy" and what type of offense are you planing on playing?  Also are you concerned with the players you've taken and there 3pt shooting or lack there of. (Durant excluded, and Petrovic but I doubt he'll be playing the minutes to get that many shots).

Seattle:  I like your teams diversity and wing players, do you think playing small ball with Pippen at the 4 will be effective against teams with historically great bigs?

Miami: What do you think people are looking and what is your teams greatest strength that gives you advantages over some of the other teams? (I also feel you're underrated  )

Portland: I like the make up of your team, I think you have a good mesh.  How do you see Yao fairing against other bigs? As a lot of them are more agile and athletic than he is.

Dallas:  I love your top players and they can really dominate a game.  However, I think your bench may be one of the weaker ones.  Do you think mixing up some of your top players to play with the bench will be successful? I can't see Shaq, Gervin, and Baylor getting there shots if all on the court at the same time, your thoughts on this?

Los Angeles:  You have a very strong and deep front court.  However, while you have a good defensive back court do how do you think the offensive production from your guards will stack up against this league.

Philly:  Why decide to play Jordan only 34 minutes per game? How do you see Dirk on the defensive end and how to combat his inefficiencies there? What are your thoughts on Dwights production now in a league where the Center position is historically weak facing all time greats who have done what he has done and more and a more comptetive era from a positional stand point?

Indiana: What are your thoughts on Steve Nash's defensive liability coupled with the size advantage many teams will have over Barkley?

Denver: Your team has some high flying wings that I can see flying down the court.  But what are your thoughts on your teams 3pt shooting outside of Cassell and Rip which I don't think you'll be playing that much.

Boston: You chose a lot of bench players that had high scoring averages.  They obviously all won't be able to match the averages from the years you've chosen, how do you see them gelling? Do you ever think to limit the bench play a bit more and increase the minutes of your top players (wings mostly) a little more?

KWhit10 - Sorry for late reply.

As for your question regarding LA's backcourt and it's offensive production, I believe that Gary Payton can and will score when he wants to. He proved this vs a Prime Jordan and Pippen during the mid 90's series vs The Bulls, in the Finals.

That year (95-96) was one of his strongest, that's why I chose it. GP also increased his scoring and rebounding during the playoff run, with a very minimal decrease in assists and steals.

His Defensive Player of the Year selection only helps to cement our first line of defense for our team.

Additionally, Joe Dumars was yet another fine choice for me at SG. While he admittedly did not shoot great from deep during the playoff series year that I selected, his NBA Finals MVP selection, 1st Team NBA Defensive Team selection, and Championship pedigree for that year allowed me to gloss over his faults with shooting from deep.

JD also displayed as much adeptness at scoring as GP, but just not from deep. He also adds a steadying influence for me at SG that I just couldn't pass up. He elevated his scoring in the post-season and his passing gives me a SG that distributes very well from the 2 spot.

To further supplement any scoring defiencies, I selected Michael Cooper and Eddie Jones. Eddie was acquired via trade. For the year that I chose Coop, he was 6th man of the year and Defensive Player of the year. Both he and Eddie elevated their games, especially from deep, in the playoffs.

Latrell Sprewell, for the year I chose for him (03-04), seemed to finally mesh well with a team (Sota) as they progressed into the playoffs. He, Cassell and KG carried that team to the WCFs that year. His skills were on decline then, but he was still very athletic. Key to me for Latrell was his experience off the bench and defense.

In short, my selections for my backcourt may not jump out for most people, but in tandem they will get the job done. The versatility on the team is key for me, in that I can roll out several different combos that can defeat a team.

And thanks to Joe Dumars and Michael Cooper, neither Larry or Michael will look forward to any dates with my team.

We all know Doc Rivers LOVES to experiment, so our lineups can and will change often-depending on opponents.

The bedrock of my team will be Defense. Any opponent that plays LA will have to accept that nothing will come easy and every single basket will be contested.

We won't sell many tickets, and opponents will not want to play us based on our defensive backline and front lines.

Defense Wins Championships.

[StartOrien]

TP to Kwhit for some solid questions on each team.

[GreenFaith1819]

So, I'm not a panelist, but I have a question for everybody:

* If you could take one of your draft picks back, which one would it be, and who would you have replaced that player with?

For me, I was able to select my 1st choice every round with the exception of perhaps two rounds, both last week.

Even with that, my 2nd or third options for my choices were selections that I could live with and I thought fit well with the team.

[mgent]

So, I'm not a panelist, but I have a question for everybody:

* If you could take one of your draft picks back, which one would it be, and who would you have replaced that player with?

I'd probably pick more post-80s players as some seem to give them more respect than earlier-era players that were better than them.

Did you pick out a first choice rotation for your team? A minutes distribution, I mean.

I was looking for it earlier and couldn't find one.

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Anyway, to be more precise, the part I was wondering about was the reserves on the perimeter. The guard positions and the small forward position.

I really like Earl Monroe as a backup combo guard. I think I would give him all of the backup minutes in the backcourt and use a three man backcourt of Oscar, Drexler and E.Monroe.

Then a two man combination at small forward with Erving and Aguirre. Sometimes plugging Artest in instead of Aguirre if the team required more defense from your backup SF. And two backup big men with Sheed + J.Lucas.

A 9 man rotation overall ... rather than going 10 deep.

To best take advantage of Earl Monroe's talents.

Yeah, never wrote it down, but you said exactly what I had in my head.  I've always been a Ron Artest fan, I love his physicality and picked him specifically so I could have a lock-down defender (something every championship team has had), but all my starters have been accustomed to playing the entire game, and Mark Aguirre is just too good to not have any minutes.

Cassell, Rip, and Laimbeer were all injury replacement picks.  For anyone else wondering, I posted a minute distribution in the team profile thread.

[Who]

Young Pierce was an absolute master at creating his own shot and probably the best in the league at getting to the line.  Will he really have the ball-time to be able to work on isos?

I think Pierce will. He is the third best offensive player on the team. He'll be playing big minutes and getting quite a respectable amount of shots + touches.

I also think Pierce will be very good at playing off of others especially LeBron James and Moses Malone. His shooting ability and ability to score from anywhere on the court will get him a good deal of quality shots in offensive sets where he is a secondary or tertiary option.

[nickagneta]

Chicago:  You have a deep team with good ball movement.  Who will be the "go-to-guy" and what type of offense are you planing on playing?  Also are you concerned with the players you've taken and there 3pt shooting or lack there of. (Durant excluded, and Petrovic but I doubt he'll be playing the minutes to get that many shots).

Regarding the 'go-to" guy besides more recently being called "The Logo", Jerry West's first nickname was "Mr. Clutch" and he had it for good reason. He was without a doubt one of the most clutch players in NBA history. He could do it all. He was an amazing outside shooter with freakish athletic skills(it is reported he could jump so high he could touch a spot a foot and a half above the rim) and basketball IQ off the charts.

He and Magic would be my 1-2 punch regarding players to go to when having to go to anyone. magic to set it up and West to score the basket.

regarding three point shooting, remember, just because there was no three point shooting during the times of a couple of my players doesn't mean they wouldn't be outstanding 3 point shooters. "Mr. Outside" Jerry West had ridiculous range. As did Pete Maravich. And though Magic and DJ weren't the greatest 3 point shooters, how many times did they hit clutch 3 pointers to put a team away or win a game. They were those types of players who when those shots absolutely had to be made, they were.

[indeedproceed]

regarding three point shooting, remember, just because there was no three point shooting during the times of a couple of my players doesn't mean they wouldn't be outstanding 3 point shooters. "Mr. Outside" Jerry West had ridiculous range. As did Pete Maravich. And though Magic and DJ weren't the greatest 3 point shooters, how many times did they hit clutch 3 pointers to put a team away or win a game. They were those types of players who when those shots absolutely had to be made, they were.

Magic Johnson, career 59% TS in the playoffs.

[mgent]

Young Pierce was an absolute master at creating his own shot and probably the best in the league at getting to the line.  Will he really have the ball-time to be able to work on isos?

I think Pierce will. He is the third best offensive player on the team. He'll be playing big minutes and getting quite a respectable amount of shots + touches.

I also think Pierce will be very good at playing off of others especially LeBron James and Moses Malone. His shooting ability and ability to score from anywhere on the court will get him a good deal of quality shots in offensive sets where he is a secondary or tertiary option.

I know Pierce is still an excellent player playing off the ball, I just don't think Memphis' perimeter lineup is a great fit together for a multitude of reasons I listed when it first happened.

[Who]

Young Pierce was an absolute master at creating his own shot and probably the best in the league at getting to the line.  Will he really have the ball-time to be able to work on isos?

I think Pierce will. He is the third best offensive player on the team. He'll be playing big minutes and getting quite a respectable amount of shots + touches.

I also think Pierce will be very good at playing off of others especially LeBron James and Moses Malone. His shooting ability and ability to score from anywhere on the court will get him a good deal of quality shots in offensive sets where he is a secondary or tertiary option.

I know Pierce is still an excellent player playing off the ball, I just don't think Memphis' perimeter lineup is a great fit together for a multitude of reasons I listed when it first happened.

I am not big on the Chris Paul addition but I love the LeBron / Pierce combo on the wings.

I think those two together are going to be fantastic together.

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This is another team where I think a guy like Manu Ginobili would have been a better choice as a PG than the prototypical PG that was selected.

[Who]

I just wanna hear some of the reason The Hawks get no love?

Two things bother me in your starting lineup:

(1) As I said after the first round, I thought Kobe Bryant was a weak pick relative to the other guys taken in the first round and that that would set you back. I see your best player relative to other team's best player as a weak link.

(2) I think Chris Mullin is a very poor choice as a starter due to his inability to play adequate defense. I think you can live with that weakness from your backup SF but not from your starter. Not in this fantasy setting.

Edit: Three things, third one is near the end somewhere. I feel your team lacks top quality scorers relative to other top offensive teams.

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Edit: Wrong player, I mixed up the end of the rosters between Atlanta and Indiana. You have Allan Houston. Not Andre Iguodala. Plus, my criticism of Steve Smith as a SF (ditto for A.Houston), it appears he has to stay at the SF position as a rotation player too. So that hurts Atlanta further.

If it were me, I think I would probably start Andre Iguodala at the three instead. Keep Mully as the backup SF. Drop Steve Smith to third string.

Steve Smith is ill-suited to playing the SF position because (1) it limits his offensive game. S.Smith is a power two guard who was able to post up and shoot over smaller guards and that is what enabled him to be so effective offensively. Against bigger strong small forwards, Smith's offensive value will decrease considerably (2) He doesn't rebound well enough. So your rebounding at the three spot with Mully + S.Smith is very weak.

I would drop S.Smith because I think Ray Allen is a better backup two guard behind Kobe Bryant.

I would start Iguodala because my first preference would be to keep Kobe Bryant at the two rather than to go small on the wings which I think brings more problems than benefits (although there are some benefits).

Anyway, those are the things that I am getting stuck on at the moment. I have no idea where your team ranks overall versus other peoples teams. I haven't look at anything like that yet.

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My favourite thing about your team is John Stockton + Karl Malone.

John Stockton's passing ability will be on full display in this fantasy game. He'll be incredible feeding all of the scorers that on your team. Will run your team like a Swiss clock.

And in Karl Malone you have one of the finest PFs ever to play the game. A physical specimen who raced up and down the court relentlessly creating havoc for opposing PFs to pick him up in transition + enabled him to play very tough individual and high quality team defense. He is going to do a lot of little things that add up over a game, glue guy type things, that just make your team better as a collective. Karl Malone was also a very strong passer which will help you to.

Not wild about Malone's go-to scoring capabilities. I wish you had another scorer in between him and Kobe. I thought top defensive teams bothered him too much in big playoff games which makes me a little nervous. I'd like him even more if he were your third best scorer than your second best scorer. Make that the third thing I dislike about the roster / starting lineup.

I also very much liked the Dikembe Mutombo draft pick. I think you picked him up late in the draft (relative to the other starting C's taken), if I recall correctly, but he was a nice guy to add to your roster late in the day to bring things together. Give you a great rim protector / shot blocker / defensive anchor for your roster + should be very good at initiating fastbreaks with his defense and rebounding.

Anyways, those are the main things that I am thinking about when I look at Atlanta's roster.

[Moranis]

Questions:
- I really like your team, and I'll give everyone praise at a later date, but this particular portion of your programming is about looking at and evaluating weaknesses, so don't think I'm all negative.

Moranis (Memphis)
- I don't like LeBron James. Explain?
- Seriously though, everyone on your team aside from LeBron James will be adapting a new role. Chris Paul will turn into a much more stationary passive player, Paul Pierce will drastically lose touches and shots, and the same goes for McAdoo. Lots of guys over the course of the league have become less efficient, especially the first year in a new setting, with less touches. Is this concern with you, and if not, why?
-Kind of a re-hash of the former question, but aside from Moses Malone, all the rest of your starters were hands down the best most productive player on middling teams that were a definite level below contending status. Paul Pierce himself has said he couldn't have handled being on a 'superteam' in his early years, and McAdoo's career is marred with conflicts with his team. LeBron James has proven that he was ready in 2010 to let some of his own touches go for a shot at a title, but why do you think that McAdoo/Paul/Pierce would be as ready, when their own words and history has shown otherwise?
-McAdoo has been called soft defensively by just about everyone who ever saw him play. His offensive style complements your strategy, but how are you going to hide him defensively?
 - What happens when you face a physical defending 4 like Dave Cowens that makes McAdoo cry actual tears on the basketball court?

1.  I can't help that you don't like Lebron James, but he is one of the all time greats, especially for this exercise when you just look at one season snap shots.

2.  I'm not really concerned about the role changes because I really believe almost all of the teams are going to be going through the same growing pains, and I just believe my players are more talented.  There certainly could be some issues with my three smalls as they are all fairly similar, but they are all also excellent shooters, excellent passers, and excellent rebounders (not to mention excellent defenders), which means they all should be able to adapt their games to play with each other.  Reality is on their teams they had to be the man so they were, but as James, Pierce, and McAdoo all demonstrated in later seasons, they were more then capable of adapting their games when necessary to fit with more talented teammates (McAdoo was the 6th man on two Lakers titles).  I don't see that as a problem at all.  I chose players with certain skill sets that I believed would fit together well and didn't pay any real attention to the roles they had on their actual team.

3.  Since it is a re-hash I'm not repeating what I put above, but will add I'm not overly worried as all of the players are fierce competitors that want to win and would do what is necessary to do so.  I mean these guys aren't Allen Iverson.  Paul has long talked about pairing up with Melo so it isn't like he is opposed to playing with great players and the others you mentioned all teamed up later in their careers with great players and reduced roles to win (just because it wasn't necessary early on doesn't mean they couldn't do it, they just didn't have to).

4.  Obviously McAdoo's defense is a problem and one that I will have to face head on (though he did have 2.12 blocks a game the year I chose, so it wasn't like he was a total waste on that end of the floor).  I knew it was when I drafted him, but his offensive and rebounding positives outweighed his defensive negatives for me.  As to how to hide him, I don't think that will be as difficult as you make seem as a number of teams don't exactly have super star offensive players at both the 4 and 5.  For example, against K. Malone and Dikembe, I will have McAdoo guard Dikembe.  He will guard Willis Reed while Malone takes Walton.  Mo Lucas with Moses on Hakeem. etc.  There are only 4 teams where his defense could present real problems Mchale/Wilt, Pettit/Shaq, Dwight/Dirk, and Duncan/Ewing (and I did say could as you just never know).  In those 4 match-ups, I think I have a real advantage on the other end of the floor, so I think it balances out.  If I'm really getting killed defensively then I put in Bobby Jones who has the size and athleticism to hold his own in any of those matchups and use McAdoo as a 6th man.

5.  Cowens and McAdoo played against each other a great deal in the 70's.  McAdoo won the individual battle more then Cowens, though the Celtics were a much better overall team and usually won the game.  

[nickagneta]

Saw some critiquing of my use of small forwards and particularly Dennis Rodman and DeBusschere. First let's set the record straight Dave DeBusschere was a forward, and was never strictly a power forward. Here's a piece of his biography from the Naismith Hall of Fame:

Dave DeBusschere was a defensive stopper who could take the air out of opponents with his physical brand of ball. The heart and soul of the New York Knick teams of the 1970s and a member of championship teams in 1970 and 1973, DeBusschere had a quietly potent offensive game that was effective from both inside and outside. Although deemed a small forward at 6-foot-6, DeBusschere was durable and rugged and could easily dominate the backboards against bigger opponents. Fellow Hall of Famer Connie Hawkins once noted that DeBusschere, "took away my first, second, third, and fourth offensive move." From 1962 to 1963, DeBusschere played professional basketball for the Detroit Pistons and at age 24 was Detroit's youngest player-coach. A talented and versatile athlete, he also pitched for baseball's Chicago White Sox.

http://www.hoophall.com/hall-of-famers/tag/david-a-dave-debusschere

Depending on where you look he is listed among the greatest power forwards and small forwards ever.

We also all now that Dennis Rodman played small forward for most of his years in Detroit before becoming exclusively a power forward after leaving the Pistons. He had such strength and quickness and athletic ability that he could smother any positional player on the court and weaken there overall game dramatically.

Both players could and did play small forward through their careers.

Regarding having a defensive stopper against some of the better facilitating small forwards and their teams, my philosophy is you win games based on rebounding and defense. Especially team defense. If you are a fan of the 2008 Celtics then you understand the importance of overall team defense and what that means to winning. Putting Rodman on a Bird or Lebron will not only effect the offense of those players directly but would indirectly effect the play of the entire teams those players are on. Bird and Lebron are point forwards who have to have the ball in their hands and create for others as well as themselves. Putting the best defensive player and rebounder, possibly ever, on them will limit their scoring but also interrupt the flow and tendencies of the offense the run overall. Will Rodman be outscored, probably, almost guaranteed. Will he outrebound his opponent, cause a ton a turnovers, interrupt the offense and disrupt the passing game of those he are guarding, almost guaranteed again.

And who would they be starting with:

Bill Walton: 2 time 1st team All-Defense and former MVP and Finals MVP, a rebound and shot block leader
Willis Reed: 1 time 1st team All-Defense and former MVP and Finals MVP who averaged 13 RPG for his career
Jerry West: 4 time 1st team All-Defense and Finals MVP
Magic Johnson: the greatest PG to ever live, 3 time MVP, and 3 time Finals MVP

Rodman is a 7 time 1st team All-defense, 2 time Defensive Player of the Year and 6 time rebounding leader

DeBusschere is 6 time All-Defense player and had ten straight double double years averaging over 16 PPG and 11 RPG for his career.

Defense and rebounding wins.

Oh and BTW the bulls still have Dennis Johnson(Finals MVP) and Marcus Camby(DPOY, rebounding and shots blocked leader) in the rotation.

[mgent]

Young Pierce was an absolute master at creating his own shot and probably the best in the league at getting to the line.  Will he really have the ball-time to be able to work on isos?

I think Pierce will. He is the third best offensive player on the team. He'll be playing big minutes and getting quite a respectable amount of shots + touches.

I also think Pierce will be very good at playing off of others especially LeBron James and Moses Malone. His shooting ability and ability to score from anywhere on the court will get him a good deal of quality shots in offensive sets where he is a secondary or tertiary option.

I know Pierce is still an excellent player playing off the ball, I just don't think Memphis' perimeter lineup is a great fit together for a multitude of reasons I listed when it first happened.

I am not big on the Chris Paul addition but I love the LeBron / Pierce combo on the wings.

I think those two together are going to be fantastic together.

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This is another team where I think a guy like Manu Ginobili would have been a better choice as a PG than the prototypical PG that was selected.

Absolutely.  I definitely have a bigger problem with LeBron hurting CP3 and CP3 hurting LeBron than LeBron hurting Pierce (and Pierce doesn't even hurt LeBron).

With LeBron you've just got to let him do his thing and put the ultimate compliments around him.  Pierce brings more compliments than detriments, so it works.  But the 3 of them together is way less than ideal.