Author Topic: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread  (Read 687715 times)

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Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread - DRAFT IS OPEN FOR WEDS
« Reply #2145 on: June 01, 2011, 04:17:13 PM »

Offline Who

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KCatthestripe (Seattle) selects Maurice Lucas. Sorry, KC work took me out of the office in a rush.
Nice. Serious physical toughness right there.

I like the idea of Mo Lucas as Hakeem's hatchet man.

Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread - DRAFT IS OPEN FOR WEDS
« Reply #2146 on: June 01, 2011, 04:19:30 PM »

Offline mgent

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Quote
Seattle Supersonics - Phil Jackson(coach)
Hakeem Olajawon
Scottie Pippen
Dave Cowens
Jason Kidd
Reggie Miller
Grant Hill
Wes Unseld
Anfernee Hardaway

VS

Quote
Denver Nuggets - Bill Russell(coach)
Oscar Robertson
Julius Erving
Clyde Drexler
Elvin Hayes
Robert Parish
Rasheed Wallace
Earl Monroe
Jerry Lucas
Mark Aguirre

I got Seattle taking this one, Mgent. I think Hill/Pippen make life difficult for your wings and slow them down. And I don't think you have the offensive fire power to offset that.

7 games series: I think Seattle takes it in 6.

How do you figure?  Even if you take Clyde and J off the team, my offense still completely overpowers them.  And if you really think they'll have trouble scoring, even on Hill (a SF) and Pippen, then you're severely underrating how great they were.  That's not even taking Oscar setting them up into the equation.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread - DRAFT IS OPEN FOR WEDS
« Reply #2147 on: June 01, 2011, 04:22:00 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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KCatthestripe (Seattle) selects Maurice Lucas. Sorry, KC work took me out of the office in a rush.
Nice. Serious physical toughness right there.

I like the idea of Mo Lucas as Hakeem's hatchet man.


Yeah, it's also hard to find the leading scorer for a championship team this late in the draft.

Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread - DRAFT IS OPEN FOR WEDS
« Reply #2148 on: June 01, 2011, 04:22:57 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Quote
Seattle Supersonics - Phil Jackson(coach)
Hakeem Olajawon
Scottie Pippen
Dave Cowens
Jason Kidd
Reggie Miller
Grant Hill
Wes Unseld
Anfernee Hardaway

VS

Quote
Denver Nuggets - Bill Russell(coach)
Oscar Robertson
Julius Erving
Clyde Drexler
Elvin Hayes
Robert Parish
Rasheed Wallace
Earl Monroe
Jerry Lucas
Mark Aguirre

I got Seattle taking this one, Mgent. I think Hill/Pippen make life difficult for your wings and slow them down. And I don't think you have the offensive fire power to offset that.

7 games series: I think Seattle takes it in 6.

How do you figure?  Even if you take Clyde and J off the team, my offense still completely overpowers them.  And if you really think they'll have trouble scoring, even on Hill (a SF) and Pippen, then you're severely underrating how great they were.  That's not even taking Oscar setting them up into the equation.

I don't see a team with strong defenders like Kidd, Pippen, Hakeem being overpowered by any offense.


I love the passing of Sea.  They will be a team impossible to press defensively with three guys that have run the point before.  

Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread - DRAFT IS OPEN FOR WEDS
« Reply #2149 on: June 01, 2011, 04:23:26 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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So Roy - What are your reasons why LA is ranked so low in your opinion?

Well, first, they're the Lakers. ;)

But no, in all seriousness, the West is a blood bath.  They're all great teams, and I second-guessed myself ranking a team with Kareem / KG up front last in anything.

What it came down to is I just didn't see the same dominant talent on LA as on some other squads.  Kareem and KG certainly dominated their eras, but guys like Worthy, Dumars, Payton, Majerle, and certainly Ben Wallace were all a step below that level, in my mind.

No hard feelings; it's all very, very subjective.  Your starting big men are probably my favorite in the game.  On balance, though, I like some of the other squads better.

Balance?

I think that there is faulty logic there in trying to assemble a team based off of players who dominated their eras.

A team must have balance and chemistry.

Ben Wallace? He's only a 4-time consecutive Defensive Player of the year and a great rebounder. He fits our Bigs quite well. He does the dirty work and doesn't need the ball to do it.

I bet any other team on here would love to have Ben Wallace. I could also fit him in as a PF in some cases, next to Kareem and KG at the 3.

And yes - we all know that Kevin Garnett played every spot in Minny at times.

"Certainly Ben Wallace?" C'mon Roy surely you jest.

Quote me on this: I look at Ben Wallace as Kendrick Perkins on steroids. ;D What I mean is that yes he is limited offensively but even then his hands were better than Perk's and he could catch an Alley-oop from GP or Rondo (Love Ya, Perk).

And you just cannot discount the Defense of Ben Wallace.

Elton Brand? Fits yet another role quite well in that he is a polished offensive player on the blocks. His best days were in Clipper land and not many could stop him.

I think Elton's only fault is that..well, he played for the Clips during his best years. Not much recognition, there.

Worthy? NBA Finals MVP. His connection to Kareem will only contribute to team comeraderie. Again - with Worthy I'm not depending on him to carry the team, but I think you are under-rating what he does for my LA team in this draft- in that he is a almost unguardable SF.

Ask Larry. I cringed many days as a DieHard Celtics Fan as Worthy would blow by Larry (and McHale). If you were slow-footed, James Worthy ate your lunch, period.

That 86-87 series was bloody. I hated it.

Gary Payton? Only 9 All NBA 1st Team Defensive Player of the year awards, plus a fine all-around player and scorer. Don't forget 95-96 Defensive player of the Year. I've already discussed with IP his limitations as far as a shooter, but he did have a few spot years with decent 3pt %.

No one's perfect - not even Gary Payton.

It was him and Shawn Kemp that took Michael (and Scotty) to 6 games in the early 90's.

Joe Dumars? Besides being recognized by Michael Jordan as a player that slows him down, his accomplishments feature 4 1st Team All NBA Defensive player of the year awards - and an 88-89 Finals MVP.

Joe Dumars is also a fine scorer AND shooter - he averaged over 38% from Deep over his career.

I didn't pick Dan Majerle to carry the offense, but he certainly spreads the floor and is a glue guy. Barkley loved playing with him. He has been noted with a couple of 2nd Team defensive awards and he helps to spread things out for us. He averaged over 38% shooting from deep for 3 seasons. Thunder Dan can also play the SG spot. He adds size to the SG spot, too.

Look - I'm not going to bag on someone's team here, but I just don't see Denver as beating LA in a series - in this draft format.

If you wish, Roy - you can fault me for not picking the Superstars, but only trying to go after guys who fit better in a team concept.



Fit is very important, and the teams that I ranked highest all fit together very nicely, in my mind.  However, talent is extraordinarily important, too, and after Kareem and KG, I wasn't overwhelmed by yours, compared to the other teams.

I agree with your characterization of Ben Wallace, although I'd say "an undersized Kendrick Perkins on steroids".  He was certainly a very good defensive player, but look back to his Finals matchup with Shaq.  Shaq was outscoring him by about 20 points per night, and doing it very efficiently. 

I think having Wallace in your rotation weakens your team, because he brings so little offense.  I said the same thing about nick when he took Rodman, but I see Rodman as a greater player than Wallace.

Anyway, like I said, it's all subjective.  Take it with a grain of salt.


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Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread - DRAFT IS OPEN FOR WEDS
« Reply #2150 on: June 01, 2011, 04:25:19 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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I cannot believe it took somebody this long to take Pete Maravich.  He's the guy I would have considered as early as the 3rd, and probably have taken in the 4th. 

Very impressive addition for the Bulls, in my opinion.  I'm thinking this league could have an epic rematch of the 1992 Finals, except with Larry and Magic taking center stage.

I will admit I forgot about Pistol.

Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread - DRAFT IS OPEN FOR WEDS
« Reply #2151 on: June 01, 2011, 04:27:19 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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How do you figure?  Even if you take Clyde and J off the team, my offense still completely overpowers them.  And if you really think they'll have trouble scoring, even on Hill (a SF) and Pippen, then you're severely underrating how great they were.  That's not even taking Oscar setting them up into the equation.

I think Pippen and Hill hold Drexler and Dr. J to below their averages while Pippen and Hill are able to either put up their averages or replicate them.

From there, Seattle's front court gets the advantage and I don't see the difference between Robinson and J - Kidd being enough to offset the aforementioned reasons.

Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread - DRAFT IS OPEN FOR WEDS
« Reply #2152 on: June 01, 2011, 04:31:03 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Best offensive team:  Denver?

Best defensive team(s):  LA, Seattle?

Those are hard, though.  For instance, with Denver, I think they'll score the most points.  However, I think other teams can make a strong argument that they're more adaptable to any style of offense, and/or have more ways they can hurt you.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread - DRAFT IS OPEN FOR WEDS
« Reply #2153 on: June 01, 2011, 04:31:14 PM »

Offline 33-00-32

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If I had to rank them

East

76ers
Heat
Bulls
Celtics (AI lowered the grade)
Pacers
Hawks



West

Port
Sea
Mem
Mavs
Lakers
Den
AI is a bench guy who will play a team game with talented players around him.


After living in Philly for most of his career, I am never going to buy that.


AI will go in believing he is the man and will cause nothing but distractions till he is in the place he think he belongs. 


AI works when AI is the only offensive threat with a defensive team built around him and an easy playoff path. 
I think if he ever had any decent help you might have seen different. At the first sign of AI acting up his Gtown alum Ewing will put his cornrows in a head lock while Hondo and Clyde beat him senseless, while Timmy keeps telling him over and over, "you better be good, you better be good..." (Timmy's too nice for any beat downs). We're not talking about Clarence Weatherspoon and Jerry Stackhouse here.
G:Kemba,Payton,Hairston,Henderson,Lin
F:Parker,MKG,Budinger,Mirotic,Salmons
C:R.Lopez,Biyombo,Hickson
Coach: Shaka Smart
Rights to: Bog Bog


Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread - DRAFT IS OPEN FOR WEDS
« Reply #2154 on: June 01, 2011, 04:31:27 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Biggest problem I see with the Lakers is shooting.

Worthy, Rondo, Payton, Garnett are all less than average (for their position) 3pt shooters, so I guess the biggest worry I have with the lakers is that they're going to have a smaller court, as it were.

Dumars and Majerle are both more than able shooters, but Domars is the only one seeing real time.

On a real NBA team, this wouldn't be an issue. A real NBA team though wouldn't have to contend with dominating players at every position on the other side tough. Lets say Big Game James is matching up against a Shawn Marion. Marion can sag off him when Worthy doesn't have the ball, because he's good enough, long enough, and fast enough to get back on Worthy if he is going to shoot it, and Worthy is only a 30% shooter, and if Worthy's not going to shoot it, Marion can still defend him without allowing him into the paint.

Meanwhile, while Marion is playing off the ball, he's taking him passing lanes and space that Payton and Rondo need to get their guys the ball, and driving lanes they'd need to use to get to the basket.

Its a crappy place to focus on a team that is so talented athletically and physically, but I don't think it should be overlooked, as every weakness that cannot be addressed is going to be a focal point in a league where none of the teams should have any chinks in their armor.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread - DRAFT IS OPEN FOR WEDS
« Reply #2155 on: June 01, 2011, 04:31:31 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Roy - even with the Shaq's production vs Wallace he is only one man.

As great as Shaq was - yes he needed Kobe to win.

And how could you call Ben Wallace "just" a very good defensive player? 4 Time defensive player of the year?

The logic with Rodman is that yes he could defend all spots - but for our team we didn't need that.

We have GP, Rondo and Dumars defending the perimeter quite well, IMO. And then you add in the mobile and spry KG in his youth and that is IMO the strongest defense out there.

Defense wins championships.

The unfortunate thing with this draft is that I think folks here are under-rating Defense.

Offense fills the seats, but Defense wins the games, and I believe my Defense will get this team deep into any playoff series.

Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread - DRAFT IS OPEN FOR WEDS
« Reply #2156 on: June 01, 2011, 04:33:43 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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If I had to rank them

East

76ers
Heat
Bulls
Celtics (AI lowered the grade)
Pacers
Hawks



West

Port
Sea
Mem
Mavs
Lakers
Den
AI is a bench guy who will play a team game with talented players around him.


After living in Philly for most of his career, I am never going to buy that.


AI will go in believing he is the man and will cause nothing but distractions till he is in the place he think he belongs. 


AI works when AI is the only offensive threat with a defensive team built around him and an easy playoff path. 
I think if he ever had any decent help you might have seen different. At the first sign of AI acting up his Gtown alum Ewing will put his cornrows in a head lock while Hondo and Clyde beat him senseless, while Timmy keeps telling him over and over, "you better be good, you better be good..." (Timmy's too nice for any beat downs). We're not talking about Clarence Weatherspoon and Jerry Stackhouse here.

So you are saying they will make him quit.  Like he did in Memphis. 


With the amount of talent all these teams have, one overly "me" player kills a team. 


AI is a negative in this type of league.  There are plenty of players that can score with the volume shooting he took that might play a little defense and not be all about "me"



Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread - DRAFT IS OPEN FOR WEDS
« Reply #2157 on: June 01, 2011, 04:34:57 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Roy - even with the Shaq's production vs Wallace he is only one man.

As great as Shaq was - yes he needed Kobe to win.

And how could you call Ben Wallace "just" a very good defensive player? 4 Time defensive player of the year?

The logic with Rodman is that yes he could defend all spots - but for our team we didn't need that.

We have GP, Rondo and Dumars defending the perimeter quite well, IMO. And then you add in the mobile and spry KG in his youth and that is IMO the strongest defense out there.

Defense wins championships.

The unfortunate thing with this draft is that I think folks here are under-rating Defense.

Offense fills the seats, but Defense wins the games, and I believe my Defense will get this team deep into any playoff series.


Wallace gets overpowered by top line C with height.


In this league, everyone has one.  He needs to defend PFs to be most effective. 

Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread - DRAFT IS OPEN FOR WEDS
« Reply #2158 on: June 01, 2011, 04:35:30 PM »

Offline 33-00-32

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Best offensive team:  Denver?

Best defensive team(s):  LA, Seattle?
Nothing for Boston on the Def side? The best 2 defensive guards and Timmy and Ewing. That adds up to a lot of D.
G:Kemba,Payton,Hairston,Henderson,Lin
F:Parker,MKG,Budinger,Mirotic,Salmons
C:R.Lopez,Biyombo,Hickson
Coach: Shaka Smart
Rights to: Bog Bog


Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread - DRAFT IS OPEN FOR WEDS
« Reply #2159 on: June 01, 2011, 04:37:38 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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Best offensive team:  Denver?

Best defensive team(s):  LA, Seattle?

Those are hard, though.  For instance, with Denver, I think they'll score the most points.  However, I think other teams can make a strong argument that they're more adaptable to any style of offense, and/or have more ways they can hurt you.

How did Kareem match up against the wider bigs?

Could he match up with someone w/ Ewing or Dunacn's size?