2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread

[StartOrien]

Entertaining offers for the Reign Man. Looking for a defensive 2 who can spread the floor.

[Rondo2287]

I am also entertaining offers for my players. 

[StartOrien]

Since I will be out the rest of the day, I'm going to make my selection now.

Looking to add some size and doing so with one of the few remaining 20/10 centers, the Memphis Grizzlies select

C - Brad Daugherty

Solid pick.

[Rondo2287]

Specifically looking to Move Pettit or Silas

[Donoghus]

I think success in this particular draft relies upon balance of talent, versatility of talent and chemistry of talent both individually and team wise. I think the best teams will be made up of greatest players that excelled in every asset of the game. The well rounded player that is elite in some aspects of the game and great in most others while being a player that makes others better and exemplifies team play.

Teams that are going to be made up of players that are say elite scorers but not the best passers or defensive players won't succeed here. teams made up of defensive players that rebound but are poor offensively, not as athletic or not the best passers won't succeed here. Teams made up of a PG with supreme passing skills but lacking elsewhere, SGs that are amazing 3 point shooters but lacking elsewhere, SFs that are unreal athletic slashers that can play defense but are lacking elsewhere, PFs that can rebound better than anyone and have amazing post games but lacking elsewhere and centers that are huge and can not be stopped down low but are lacking elsewhere, just won't work here.

The individual players have to have many supreme skills as well as be versatile and have the mentality to be a team player. The team makeup has to be one of players that are proven winners that can do it all, have played amazingly with other stars and will mesh and perform on both ends of the court.

That's just my opinion but its what I built my team around and what I think succeeds in this particular draft format. Its why I think that the Bulls are one of the best teams here. We can be the best offensive team here on any given night and when we have to be. We can be the best defensive team here on any given night and when we want to be. Combined, I think that makes this team one of the best.

I'm not sure your team actually does what you think it does as you have a lot of players that are deficient in a number of areas.  Rodman is terrible offensively, Durant is well below average defensively.  Maravich wouldn't know defense if it bit him on the butt.  Willis Reed isn't exactly an offensive force and was a pretty poor passer.  DJ isn't exactly a well rounded offensive player (pretty poor shooter and only an average at best passer).  Sure Magic and Walton hit what you want, but most of your team does not. 

I think you severely underestimate the offensive game of Willis Reed, a 18.7 PPG for his career scorer and a player who scored over 20 PPG for 5 straight years while having a FG% around 50% for those 5 years.

I think you severely underestimate Kevin Durant's defensive capabilities as he had a PER against of 12.0 when playing against SF's and 13.9 while playing against PFs.

DJ was a excellent passer and his three point shooting was poor but his mid range game was excellent. His all around offensive game was excellent he just was a great team player that didn't look for his offense but took what the defense gave him. One of the smartest players ever.

I admit that Maravich and Rodman are specialists. Rodman defensive, maravich offensive, though he could do it all offensively, but as it stands they will be used as specialists with the other 7 players being the main rotation for now.

Walton
Gasol
Reed
Magic
West
Durant
Johnson

That's seven players that fit what I am describing. I mean I wasn't saying you draft 13 Michael Jordans. You can't. Every player will have something lacking somewhere, sometimes in more than one place. But overall, well rounded and elite in most aspects of the game individually as player and as team players.

I know you are supporting your team, but you are severely overestimating the overall ability of your guys.  They are not who you say they are. 

And yours or anybody else's team isn't?

Of course everyone is pumping up their own teams and overblowing their abilities.

[GreenFaith1819]

Shawn Marion is a very good defender today but he is nowhere near the defender he was 5-6 years ago.

It's not even close. I can't believe that point is even being debated.

-----------------------------------

Marion is one of the finest defensive small forward's + rebounding small forwards in this draft (also one of the weaker offensive players).

Given the current starters at his position, I have him ranked as the third best defensive starting SF (behind Pippen and LeBron).

There are also two top defenders off the bench (Rodman, B.Jones) ... which makes Marion a top 5 defender out of the 22 small forwards already taken.

** Havlicek would have also featured here but he was moved to the SG position.

-----------------------------------------

In terms of Worthy, Marion is one of the most capable defenders to throw at him.

What you want with Worthy is either an undersized SF who Worthy can beat up in the post or a slow PF who he can beat with his quickness and agility in the post / drives (where Worthy was his most lethal, like Marion, as an undersized PF).

Unfortunately for Worthy, Marion was a combo forward who had the strength to defend most PFs and the elite quickness to defend any and all perimeter positions at an All-League level.

Marion will most definitely slow James Worthy down. He won't shut him down but he will slow him down. Marion will also provide great defense as a team defender playing off of Worthy's so-so jump shot.

I just believe that if Shawn Marion was as good a defender earlier in his career as some here say he was - he would've certainly been recognized for it in a Defensive team selection - especially if he had any level of success vs say a Lebron James.

I don't have memory of such - nor do I recall any articles or conversations stating such.

If - say - Dan Majerle - can get recognized with at least Two 2nd Team NBA Defensive selections - and not Shawn - then is the NBA rigged?

Or are we to just trust what has already been awarded?

With Who's point of view, then - Shawn Marion should've been picked in the 5th round - if he was the 5th best SF overall in this draft.

[StartOrien]

I just believe that if Shawn Marion was as good a defender earlier in his career as some here say he was - he would've certainly been recognized for it in a Defensive team selection - especially if he had any level of success vs say a Lebron James.

Stats don't often tell the whole story, particularly defensive ones but take a look at Marion's numbers:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mariosh01.html

There's a long stretch of seasons with Phoenix where he's consistently averaging 2 steals and 1.5 blocks per game.

He was a terrific defensive player.

I don't have memory of such - nor do I recall any articles or conversations stating such.

Granted its a suns book, but there's a good stretch in 'Seven Seconds or Less' talking about how great of a defensive player Marion was. Specifically citing his versatility.

[StartOrien]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/3937/cooked-by-the-sun-meet-shawn-marion

But the real reason to play him is for his defense. On the website 82games.com, David Nelson and Damien Walker made an exhaustive case, based on a sophisticated review of the numbers, that Marion should have been last year's defensive player of the year. They conclude:

Marion's D has many detractors, often fueled by one of the most popular misconceptions expressed by the general public (and by most TV and radio analysts): that the Suns are a horrible defensive team. Yes, looking at points per game allowed there are not many worse, but Defensive Efficiency is a far more accurate representation of team defense. Looking at points allowed per-possession, not only is Marion a fantastic defender, he is also a fantastic defender for a better than average defensive ballclub.

While Marion is our choice for the award, a strong case could be made for any one of our finalists. The factor that caused us to choose Marion over the others is his overall versatility. Marion is the next-generation defender.

Long, strong and athletic, Marion can keep up with the fastest point guards, and is disciplined enough to defend the best low-post scorers. His ability to play the passing lanes and pick up steals or deflections is even more valuable because of his ability to run the floor or make the outlet pass. Combine this with the fact that he holds his own against any big man in the league when it comes to blocks and defensive rebounds, and you can understand why Shawn Marion gets our nod for Defensive Player of the Year.

[nickagneta]

Moranis opened things up and I have little to do so we can start for today.

33-00-32 and Boston is up.

[Rondo2287]

Moranis opened things up and I have little to do so we can start for today.

33-00-32 and Boston is up.

Whooooooh

[nickagneta]

Looking to trade for an 11th round pick and offering 

 - my 12.5 and 13.8 if you have an 11th rounder below my 8th pick in the 11th or

 - my 12.5 and 13.8 and my 10.5 for your 10th and 11th rounders if you have an 11th rounder higher than my 8th pick in the 11th

PM me if interested.

[WeMadeIt17]

I wont be able to draft today if possible I will draft when I get back from golfing after everyone has drafted

[RebusRankin]

Hey I can draft for myself today.  Woo Hoo.

[GreenFaith1819]

I just believe that if Shawn Marion was as good a defender earlier in his career as some here say he was - he would've certainly been recognized for it in a Defensive team selection - especially if he had any level of success vs say a Lebron James.

Stats don't often tell the whole story, particularly defensive ones but take a look at Marion's numbers:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mariosh01.html

There's a long stretch of seasons with Phoenix where he's consistently averaging 2 steals and 1.5 blocks per game.

He was a terrific defensive player.

I don't have memory of such - nor do I recall any articles or conversations stating such.

Granted its a suns book, but there's a good stretch in 'Seven Seconds or Less' talking about how great of a defensive player Marion was. Specifically citing his versatility.

SO - after reading that ESPN article you posted, I get the feeling, though - that as good as the young Shawn Marion was supposedly defensively - do you want that type of player guarding the best players in NBA History - in THIS Draft setting?

After reading the entire article, it mentions some very troubling issues with the younger Marion, though.

I get the impression that - say - a Kevin Garnett or a Gary Payton, even - could possibly get into his head?

Just reading that entire article I'm not sure if the Younger Shawn Marion would...stay engaged for the entire game?

Would he be worried about - say - Bill Russell or Charles Barkley - getting the most recognition?

Of course the Shawn Marion that is playing now wouldn't have those issues - but that version is considerably slower.

Please - read the entire article.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/3937/cooked-by-the-sun-meet-shawn-marion

[Rondo2287]

Marion is a good defender now, and was a very good to excellent defender back in his prime.  I would be EXTREMELY comfortable with him being my primary wing defender in this setting.