Author Topic: I Don't Think the Window is Quite Closed  (Read 4214 times)

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Re: I Don't Think the Window is Quite Closed
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2011, 01:23:34 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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I disagree.  Three of our most important players will be 34, 35, and 36 respectively.  And the Heat proved to us that age doesn't trump athleticism and youth.  Danny needs to pull something out of his butt to keep the window open.

People focus way too much on age IMO

If people didn't know their age I don't think people would be saying they look old.

Against Lebron, Wade, Melo, and Amare who are the biggest freaks in the NBA the Celtics aren't going to look that athletic against them.

But regardless of age Ray Allen is probably in better shape than anyone in the league.

KG might have looked "old" last year because of his injured leg but he still was voted SECOND in DPOY award and still is pretty respectable offensively. He is as dominant on defense as any guy in the NBA.

Paul Pierce throwing down ferocious dunks this year. Increasing his shotting percentages in every category.

These guys are technically getting older but people make it seem like we lost because we are old when that is not the case.

Lebron James and Dwayne Wade make Pierce and Green and Wafer old.

I'm sure he'll make Deng look old in the next series.

Re: I Don't Think the Window is Quite Closed
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2011, 01:30:31 PM »

Offline LB3533

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All of the Big 3 have had very efficient regular seasons.

Both Paul and Ray had pretty darn good playoffs too, efficiency wise.

KG had a bit of a drop off in the playoffs.

The point is, our Big 3 can still get it done, they just can't get it done for long stretches anymore.

They need to have substantial and consistent bench support as well as support from Rondo and whoever is our Starting Center.

We must not rely on historically injury prone players nor make drastic trades and roster moves halfway into the season.

I still agree with the Green/Perk trade. Injuries forced us to make a move.

The problem I had most is the other players who returned from injury...they did not have enough time to gel and build up chemistry.

To expect a brand new bench to play consistent ball with only 1-2 months of playing together is absurd.


Re: I Don't Think the Window is Quite Closed
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2011, 01:40:44 PM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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My thinking is yes the Big 3 all had great seasons. But I think this was the last one where they can be consistent as far as on court production
It happened too many times where Pierce, Ray, or KG would play exceptionally well one game, then disappear the next

And now they're another year older next season. I rather have them on the bench. It'll save their legs, and it would make the Celtics hands down the best bench in the league

I wouldn't acquire new players in the starting lineup with just scrubs. Get really good players with trades

I think that would be a better option

Re: I Don't Think the Window is Quite Closed
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2011, 02:28:56 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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I think we are still very close to a championship. Obviously there are a few teams who will be there next year, but since Ainge was aggressive last year, I think he has to continue to be aggressive this offseason. He needs to make changes. Drastic ones? I'm not so sure.

I think the Big Three are the only one's that can't go. Each bring too much to the table. KG is the emotional and defensive leader. Ray is a dead-eye shooter. And Pierce is the guy who does it all - scores a big bucket, defends the best player, rips bown a big board, finds the open man for an important shot, etc.

Rondo and Green would be next on the list, but we would have to see their value. If Green gets a big offer, I don't know what Ainge is going to do. Is a S&T possible? And Ainge has to listen to all offers for Rondo and inquire about CP3.

Just because we lost so early doesn't mean we weren't close. A series of unfortunate events led to our early departure, but not having enough talent was not one of them.
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Re: I Don't Think the Window is Quite Closed
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2011, 03:04:03 PM »

Offline Jon

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With KG, it certainly has to do with recovering from the injury.  But that has nothing to do with Ray and Paul, who both played much better this year than last.  Furthermore, my point is that even with a subpar KG two years ago, we came a Perk injury away from winning it all. 

Thus my point becomes that if we can almost win the Finals with a Big Three that was worse than this year Big Three, I don't see why we can't potentially make a run next year, even if the Big Three slightly decline.


They will be two years older next playoffs, and we lost game 7 of the finals in the same fashion we lost games against the Heat.

Quote
What will it take:

1) A healthy and improved Rondo.

2) An improved and integrated Jeff Green.

3) A good center (though not necessarily great).

4) Good health from the Big Three (a huge IF I recognize).

5) Retaining Delonte West and Big Baby, or getting players comparable to them. 

6) And perhaps even some injury luck the other way (meaning other teams get hit, not us). 


1) We had a healthy Rondo for the first two games, and we lost. A healthy Rondo was also part of game 7 last year, and part of the team who had countless 4th quarter collapses over the last 2 years.

2) Jeff Green is a role-player, we shouldn´t put our eggs in that basket if we´re looking to win a championship. He´s good, and could be better next year, but he´s not the deciding factor.

3) The whole league could use a good Center. We won´t get a player who can improve us significantly, if he´s not past his prime. We had Shaq and JO (who played pretty good in the playoffs) this year, and it wasn´t enough. Who could we realistically get, who is an improvement to those two?

4) An even bigger if than last year, or the year before.

5) See point 2.

6) Has nothing to do with luck. Injuries pile up when you get older. I`m not overly optimistic that the situation will get better with time.

I agree that there´s still a chance, but the term "window" is quite wishy-washy. The Memphis Grizzlies have a window, too. It´s still not realistic to expect them to win the championship.

This group had four (ok, 3) chances to win it all, they won it once. I´m thankful for that, but I can´t see another win without significant changes to our core.

1) We had a healthy Rondo the first two games we lost?  So what?  You're acting like it's the first time we've ever lost playoff games in the Big Three Era.  In '08 we almost lost to Atlanta, lost a game by 20 to Cleveland, and lost another game by 19 to Detroit.  So I don't see the relevance here in us losing two games with Rondo: two games don't make a series. 

I also don't see why people want to focus on the 4th quarter collapses of the C's, rather than the fact that Rondo not only was hurt, but having him in was actually hurting the team.  So not only was it like not having Rondo, it was like not having Rondo, plus an extra negative. 

Yet we still almost won Games 4 and 5.  I can't imagine that we wouldn't have won Game 4 with a healthy Rondo in Game 4 and we would've had a darn good shot of winning Game 5.  So if we could potentially have come back from an 0-2 hole if Rondo was healthy, I don't see why it matters that he was healthy when they lost the first two games. 

2) I agree that Jeff Green, BBD, and West are role players.  But on a team that blew a lot of leads because of the bench and on a team that narrowly lost it's last two games despite not having Rondo, I don't see how you think this is insignificant.  Literally a couple baskets could've been the difference between going home 3-2 and losing the series.  If these guys can grow, it can make a difference. 

3) Shaq and JO healthy likely would've been enough.  That's neither here nor there, and I realize it's going to be a fairly tall order.  However, I think someone solid, even along the lines of Jeff Foster, could be all this team needs, especially if JO comes back. 

Will it be a tough sell over Miami and other teams?  Yes.  But I think the small advantage the C's might have in certain situations is that we can sell some guys on the idea that they can get bigger roles as the Big Three retire/fade.  They won't get that on a lot of other teams like Miami. 

5) Injuires: you're right.  It's a bigger risk, but probably only by a little bit.  Nevertheless, you're right; however, as I said, it's going to take luck. 

6) Injuries absolutely have to do with luck.  How else do you explain the Rondo injury happening?  It wasn't because of age, it wasn't because of his reckless play, it was because he fell awkwardly in a collision with Wade.  It could've just as easily happened the other way, and had it happened the other way, we'd likely be gearing up for Chicago. 

So I think we absolutely could get lucky next year.  Even if we don't improve or we take a step back, we could win a title if LeBron and Rose blow ACLs.  And you know what?  I'd feel fine about it after the way our best 3 seasons ended.  But we'd certainly be quite lucky. 

Finally, to jaybahs, while Rondo's shooting has been disheartening, look at Jason Kidd.  His biggest flaw when he came into the league was that he couldn't shoot to save his life.  16 years later he's #3 in three point makes in league history.  It's possible Rondo can improve.   

Re: I Don't Think the Window is Quite Closed
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2011, 03:25:41 PM »

Offline clover

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My thinking is yes the Big 3 all had great seasons. But I think this was the last one where they can be consistent as far as on court production
It happened too many times where Pierce, Ray, or KG would play exceptionally well one game, then disappear the next

And now they're another year older next season. I rather have them on the bench. It'll save their legs, and it would make the Celtics hands down the best bench in the league

I wouldn't acquire new players in the starting lineup with just scrubs. Get really good players with trades

I think that would be a better option

I only want two of 'em back, whichever they are, and I want one of those coming off the bench.  The C's aren't going to win as the league's only masters team.