Mia dictating lineups

[Vermont Green]

If Miami goes with:

Chalmers
Wade
Jones
James
Bosh

I think we should answer with

West (on Chalmers)
Pierce (on Wade)
JO (on Jones)
Green (on James)
KG (on Bosh)

That keep KG under the basket to help D and rebounds and means that JO will have to stay home on Jones.  It is not ideal but that Miami line-up allows Miami to put a lot of talent on the floor.

On offense, we use JO to pick and roll them to death, try to create switches or double teams, and then we have to hit the shots that we will get or get the OReb when we don't.  I like West over Rondo or Ray in this situation because we need a ball handler who is also a shooter.  West and Green will get shots plus maybe some mid ranges for JO on "rolls".

There is no great answer for line up especially if we try to play small with them.  We need to be big.

[kozlodoev]

Pierce on Wade will be a disaster.

[droopdog7]

Pierce on Wade will be a disaster.

Umm, not really.  Frankly, PP has done a better job on wade than Ray (the few times we have seen it this series).  I am not sure why people think PP can't guard SG's?

[kozlodoev]

Pierce on Wade will be a disaster.

Umm, not really.  Frankly, PP has done a better job on wade than Ray (the few times we have seen it this series).  I am not sure why people think PP can't guard SG's?

Wade is a combo guard, for starters. And while Pierce can get away with guarding faster perimeter players for several possessions in a game, trying to make him run with Wade for the entire game is a sure recipe to have an ineffective Pierce on both offense and defense. It's like asking Ray Allen to guard Westbrook.

[FatjohnReturns]

The best Celtic lineup is the one with Rondo on the bench.

West on Wade
Ray on Bibby
Pierce on Lebron
Garnett on Bosh
Jermaine on Anthony

It takes Ray off Wade but keeps him on the floor for offense. West is our best defender vs Wade so play him with the starters. Doc will never make adjustments, Rondo could tear the ligaments in his other elbow in practice and Doc would still play him 38 minutes in game 5. Sorry to say its over.

Ans when anthony is replaced by a wing (which incidentally is the point of this thread)?

no kidding. "So I ask, do we have any viable options against mia's small lineup?"

I gave you our best small ball lineup and that is what I would go with. Docs never looking to make other teams adjust to our strengths. So if your asking who should  match with James/Bosh at the PF/C our options are Pierce/KG or Green/KG.

[MBunge]

And while Pierce can get away with guarding faster perimeter players for several possessions in a game, trying to make him run with Wade for the entire game is a sure recipe to have an ineffective Pierce on both offense and defense. It's like asking Ray Allen to guard Westbrook.

Who's suggesting Pierce guard Wade for the entire game?  We're talking about maybe the last 5 minutes.

Mike

[kozlodoev]

And while Pierce can get away with guarding faster perimeter players for several possessions in a game, trying to make him run with Wade for the entire game is a sure recipe to have an ineffective Pierce on both offense and defense. It's like asking Ray Allen to guard Westbrook.

Who's suggesting Pierce guard Wade for the entire game?  We're talking about maybe the last 5 minutes.

Mike

You need Pierce to play LeBron in the last 5 minutes of the game. Period.

[MBunge]

And while Pierce can get away with guarding faster perimeter players for several possessions in a game, trying to make him run with Wade for the entire game is a sure recipe to have an ineffective Pierce on both offense and defense. It's like asking Ray Allen to guard Westbrook.

Who's suggesting Pierce guard Wade for the entire game?  We're talking about maybe the last 5 minutes.

Mike

You need Pierce to play LeBron in the last 5 minutes of the game. Period.

You may not have noticed, but Jeff Green has done a pretty good job when he's been on LeBron.  And frankly, I think you'd rather have LeBron with the ball in his hand in the last 5 minutes istead of Wade.

Mike

[kozlodoev]

And while Pierce can get away with guarding faster perimeter players for several possessions in a game, trying to make him run with Wade for the entire game is a sure recipe to have an ineffective Pierce on both offense and defense. It's like asking Ray Allen to guard Westbrook.

Who's suggesting Pierce guard Wade for the entire game?  We're talking about maybe the last 5 minutes.

Mike

You need Pierce to play LeBron in the last 5 minutes of the game. Period.

You may not have noticed, but Jeff Green has done a pretty good job when he's been on LeBron.  And frankly, I think you'd rather have LeBron with the ball in his hand in the last 5 minutes istead of Wade.

Mike

In spurts. Just the same way that Pierce can do a good job on Wade in spurts.

There are multiple other issues with this configuration anyhow: LeBron will be guarding Pierce, and having a cross-matchup against a team that likes to push the tempo is not a good idea; also, Green has no chance in this world in getting any calls against LeBron in 50-50 situations.

[LB3533]

I am pretty sure that in Games 1 and 2 of this series, Doc stayed big and we lost both games to the Heat.

You are [dang]ed if you do and [dang]ed if you don't.

Green at the 4 is the best way to defend the small lineup.

And no, do not switch KG on to Lebron....that cost us the game last night with the Bosh tip in...we had no big guys at all in the paint.

In the 4th quarter of Game 1, JO came in with 5:07 left in the 4th quarter and was taken out with 3:28 left.  The only scoring Miami did in the 1:39 was 2 free throws by LeBron, 2 free throws by Wade and a 20 foot jumper by LeBron.

In the 4th quarter of game 2, Jermaine came in with 5:56 left in the 4th and was taken out with 3:02 left.  In that 2:54 seconds, Boston outscored Miami 8 to 4.

In both games, Boston was behind when JO came in for the 4th quarter and still behind when he left.  But considering that JO has probably been the best Celtic big for the whole series and that Doc played JO 28 minutes in game 4 after only playing him 21, 19 and 22 minutes in the first 3 contests, I think we can safely say that Doc is simply choosing NOT to play JO.

Mike

Mike, I was referring to portions of game time when neither Anthony or Big Z were on the floor at any time of the game (not just the 4th quarters).

When the Heat had Bosh at Center, the C's still kept the pairing of either KG/JO or Baby/KG.

Now in Game 1 (4th quarter) we did have a +4 with JO, but Doc decided to go small and subbed in West...which resulted in +3.

So we didn't lose much with the West sub in, only 1 point.

I would contend, had Pierce not gotten ejected, JG wouldn't have sniffed the court during that crunch time in the 4th.

With PP, we probably don't need to sub West in since we would be OK with our offense.

JO may have finished that 4th quarter...may have not.

In Game 2:

Miami was a +8 with Bosh at the 5 in the 2nd quarter. The C's countered that with a mix of JO/KG/BB and JG....when JG was on the court (only for 31 seconds of that juncture of the 2nd quarter) we were a +1, the only time we were in the positive during the time frame Bosh was the 5.

Now in the 4th quarter of Game 2, Miami was +4 when Bosh was at the 5....the only time JO was playing (1:38) during the 4th...the C's were -4. When Jeff Green subbed in, we were +3.

[LB3533]

So again, we did try to play big in the 1st 2 games and it didn't work out.

So now Doc goes immediately to try and match up small...he knows we can't hang with the Heat's small lineup.

Doc and Danny and the rest of the C's coaching staff have these numbers.

They also know we stink at rebounding.

But to me...we can control the turnovers much more easier than we can control the glass.

I mean, we cannot be careless bringing up the ball and turning it over in the backcourt (of all places) for an easy Lebron dunk.

That is just high school-esque.

[MBunge]

In Game 2:

Miami was a +8 with Bosh at the 5 in the 2nd quarter. The C's countered that with a mix of JO/KG/BB and JG....when JG was on the court (only for 31 seconds of that juncture of the 2nd quarter) we were a +1, the only time we were in the positive during the time frame Bosh was the 5.

Now in the 4th quarter of Game 2, Miami was +4 when Bosh was at the 5....the only time JO was playing (1:38) during the 4th...the C's were -4. When Jeff Green subbed in, we were +3.

What was Baby's +/-?  I think you have to break that out considering how much worse he's playing than either JO or KG.  And I hardly think 1:38 is enough time to judge anything by statistical means.  That's barely more than 6 possessions in a game and a +/- of 4 can't possibly prove anything.

Mike

[MBunge]

So again, we did try to play big in the 1st 2 games and it didn't work out.

No, we did not go big.

First of all, the majority of the team played poorly for both games 1 and 2.  Second of all, playing big means ACTUALLY TRYING TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF BEING BIG.  In the first two games, how many times did Jermaine get the ball in the post?  How many times did any Celtic big get the ball in the post to try and take advantage of a size mismatch.  Thirdly, if you're going to play big or small or whatever, you have to do it for more than a minute or two before abandoning it.

Mike

[pearljammer10]

So I ask, do we have any viable options against mia's small lineup?  Should we put KG on lebron?  Should we put KG in their other SF?  Would this be better or worse?

The answer to this is almost painfully simple.

Put JO on the Heat's center (likely Bosh).
Keep Pierce on LeBron.
Put KG on the small forward (likely Jones or Miller).

This is the lineup that led to James Jones scoring 25 points in game 1.  KG is too integral to the help defense to have him stick on a shooter like Jones.  It forces KG to choose between giving help on Wade and James, or staying closer to Jones, and basically being made a non-factor defensively.

It is a no-win proposition going big when the Heat go small. 

The fact is, the C's did a tremendous job of stopping the Heat when they went small the last couple of games.  Yes, it hurt them a bit on the boards, but that is the lesser of two evils over giving up wide open shots, which is what happens when you don't match up with them. 

Yeah, putting KG on the SF kills his game... 1) He gets drawn out of the paint and cant help rebound. 2) He cant play help D at the rim if he is at the 3 point line. 3) He is so concentrated on helping that Jones or Miller are wide open to hit the three.

[pearljammer10]

Pierce on Wade will be a disaster.

Umm, not really.  Frankly, PP has done a better job on wade than Ray (the few times we have seen it this series).  I am not sure why people think PP can't guard SG's?

Wade is a combo guard, for starters. And while Pierce can get away with guarding faster perimeter players for several possessions in a game, trying to make him run with Wade for the entire game is a sure recipe to have an ineffective Pierce on both offense and defense. It's like asking Ray Allen to guard Westbrook.

Pierce guarding Wade would be a terrible idea. Pierce needs to be able to use his body in his defense and he does this against LeBron...He would just get in foul trouble against Wade. Wade is much faster on his first step and if Pierce bodied him up even slighty then Wade would be on the line every second.