My final thread on the trade

[PosImpos]

I still don't like the trade, and I think Perk would have stopped a lot of Miami's penetration and would have helped on the boards (which was an issue last night).  That said, I don't really expect anybody to change their minds at this point.

Going forward, I don't really see Jeff Green as much more than a role player; I don't think he's a guy you can build around.  I'm hopeful that the Clippers pick at least yields a good player, although the draft is always a crap shoot.

Sums up my thought.


Last night was a replay of last years game 7.


Replace Wallace with JO

Nate with West

TA with Green


Injured Perk with Injured Shaq.




Wasn't the offseason about adding big bodies so that would never happen again?  What happened?  Short term memory loss?

Old happened.  Just like last year, the team played their hearts out for most of the game but just didn't have the energy to keep it going down the stretch.  I think Danny made a solid move to try and prevent this sort of thing from happening, but it wasn't enough.

[wdleehi]

I still don't like the trade, and I think Perk would have stopped a lot of Miami's penetration and would have helped on the boards (which was an issue last night).  That said, I don't really expect anybody to change their minds at this point.

Going forward, I don't really see Jeff Green as much more than a role player; I don't think he's a guy you can build around.  I'm hopeful that the Clippers pick at least yields a good player, although the draft is always a crap shoot.

Sums up my thought.


Last night was a replay of last years game 7.


Replace Wallace with JO

Nate with West

TA with Green


Injured Perk with Injured Shaq.




Wasn't the offseason about adding big bodies so that would never happen again?  What happened?  Short term memory loss?

Old happened.  Just like last year, the team played their hearts out for most of the game but just didn't have the energy to keep it going down the stretch.  I think Danny made a solid move to try and prevent this sort of thing from happening, but it wasn't enough.

How does trading a big for a small prevent the repeat of not having enough bigs in the  playoffs? 

[Marcus13]

Yeah, the trade was a really bad idea, but the Heat just clicked at the right time and I dont think we would have won anyway

[dlpin]

Does that make it better?  


If he had a big man he trusted (Perk), the Celtics likely play a lot more minutes with two big men.  (why else does Davis play so many minutes despite his poor play of lately)



Not to mention, Wallace rebounds more like a SF then a C at that point.  

So what you are saying is that the trade was bad not because of the actual players we have, but because Doc trusted Perkins more than Jermaine O'neal and as such would not have gone small as often as he did?

 Best record in the East to on the ledge of being knocked out in the 2nd round is vindication?  On a win now team? 

Oh, come on. Did we have the best record in the east because of those 12 games Perkins played? Of that phenomenal 4-3 record he had as a starter, despite playing 5 of those games at home? Blaming the decline on the trade instead of age and injuries makes no sense.

How does trading a big for a small prevent the repeat of not having enough bigs in the  playoffs? 

Except that the reason Doc wen't small yesterday had nothing to do with a shortage of bigs and everything to do with Doc CHOOSING to go small. He CHOSE to go small, he wasn't forced to. There has been NO shortage of bigs against Miami, Doc is just choosing to go small when Miami goes small.

[mctyson]

 Best record in the East to on the ledge of being knocked out in the 2nd round is vindication?  On a win now team? 

Absolutely.  I am not evaluating the trade on the results of this season - that's the point of my original post.

It was debatable that the Celtics were the best team in the East pre-trade; they had the best record by a couple games.  Anyone could make the case that Miami was just as good (if not better on a pure talent level) as the Celtics.  Who are they getting knocked out in the second round by?  That same Heat team.  The same team that the Celtics beat early in the season WITHOUT KENDRICK PERKINS.

They are still a win-now team.  The trade was a classic side-grade move, a bit of a gamble on the present with a down payment for the future.  If you want to criticize Danny on anything, blame him for putting too much faith in Shaq's ability to rehab from injury.  If Shaq was healthy, him and JO combined are superior to Kendrick Perkins in all facets of the game.

[wdleehi]

Does that make it better?  


If he had a big man he trusted (Perk), the Celtics likely play a lot more minutes with two big men.  (why else does Davis play so many minutes despite his poor play of lately)



Not to mention, Wallace rebounds more like a SF then a C at that point.  

So what you are saying is that the trade was bad not because of the actual players we have, but because Doc trusted Perkins more than Jermaine O'neal and as such would not have gone small as often as he did?

 Best record in the East to on the ledge of being knocked out in the 2nd round is vindication?  On a win now team? 

Oh, come on. Did we have the best record in the east because of those 12 games Perkins played? Of that phenomenal 4-3 record he had as a starter, despite playing 5 of those games at home? Blaming the decline on the trade instead of age and injuries makes no sense.

How does trading a big for a small prevent the repeat of not having enough bigs in the  playoffs? 

Except that the reason Doc wen't small yesterday had nothing to do with a shortage of bigs and everything to do with Doc CHOOSING to go small. He CHOSE to go small, he wasn't forced to. There has been NO shortage of bigs against Miami, Doc is just choosing to go small when Miami goes small.

So, what did Green do?  What difference did he make?




And if Ainge made this trade for the future, he should have done it right and trade the big three.  They are not about the future.   They were about winning now.  The best way for this team to win now is to play big. 


And yes, Perk playing his 20 minutes a game with JO playing his minutes means less time small.  It means the war on the boards are closer.  It means less offensive rebounds and less 2nd chance points. 



The trade was a gamble on Shaq.  Green is a bust this year.  His play was less then expected. 



This season was about this season.  The moves in the offseason was about this season.  The moves in season should have been about this season. 

[Cman]

The idea that Perkins is somehow some mega guru that can turn veterans around even when his play is below par by sheer will of character is the type of stuff that sportswriters love, but has no actual bearing on the game.

For a moment there, I thought we were talking about Phil Jackson....

[dlpin]

So, what did Green do?  What difference did he make?




And if Ainge made this trade for the future, he should have done it right and trade the big three.  They are not about the future.   They were about winning now.  The best way for this team to win now is to play big. 


And yes, Perk playing his 20 minutes a game with JO playing his minutes means less time small.  It means the war on the boards are closer.  It means less offensive rebounds and less 2nd chance points. 



The trade was a gamble on Shaq.  Green is a bust this year.  His play was less then expected. 



This season was about this season.  The moves in the offseason was about this season.  The moves in season should have been about this season. 

Green has been the most efficient scorer this team has this series, and he has played good defense on James. That just might not be enough against this heat team.

And no, Doc would not have gone big if only he had 1 more center because he had a perfectly healthy center on the bench he chose not to play.

Finally, it makes no sense to criticize the trade because there could have been better trades out there, or other unprovable hypotheticals.

[Marcus13]

So, what did Green do?  What difference did he make?




And if Ainge made this trade for the future, he should have done it right and trade the big three.  They are not about the future.   They were about winning now.  The best way for this team to win now is to play big. 


And yes, Perk playing his 20 minutes a game with JO playing his minutes means less time small.  It means the war on the boards are closer.  It means less offensive rebounds and less 2nd chance points. 



The trade was a gamble on Shaq.  Green is a bust this year.  His play was less then expected. 



This season was about this season.  The moves in the offseason was about this season.  The moves in season should have been about this season. 

Green has been the most efficient scorer this team has this series, and he has played good defense on James. That just might not be enough against this heat team.

And no, Doc would not have gone big if only he had 1 more center because he had a perfectly healthy center on the bench he chose not to play.

Neither of those statements are true

[wdleehi]

So, what did Green do?  What difference did he make?




And if Ainge made this trade for the future, he should have done it right and trade the big three.  They are not about the future.   They were about winning now.  The best way for this team to win now is to play big. 


And yes, Perk playing his 20 minutes a game with JO playing his minutes means less time small.  It means the war on the boards are closer.  It means less offensive rebounds and less 2nd chance points. 



The trade was a gamble on Shaq.  Green is a bust this year.  His play was less then expected. 



This season was about this season.  The moves in the offseason was about this season.  The moves in season should have been about this season. 

Green has been the most efficient scorer this team has this series, and he has played good defense on James. That just might not be enough against this heat team.

And no, Doc would not have gone big if only he had 1 more center because he had a perfectly healthy center on the bench he chose not to play.

Finally, it makes no sense to criticize the trade because there could have been better trades out there, or other unprovable hypotheticals.

Show me where I mention another trade option? 


The Celtics play their best when they play big. 


Celtics traded away one of the bigs in the hope that two other bigs will be healthy in the playoffs.  They got one.


And how is Green rebounding like a PG helping this team?  And I saw one game where he played some decent to good defense on Lebron. 

[dlpin]

Neither of those statements are true

Jeff Green's true shooting percentage this series: 66.1%

Next closest celtic this series: Delonte West, with a true shooting percentage of 61.8%

And what do you base your other assertion on? Perkins' minutes would most likely come at the expense of Jermaine O'neal, not BBD. JO played 28 minutes last night, and could have played more but Doc chose not to.

[dlpin]

Show me where I mention another trade option? 

This season was about this season.  The moves in the offseason was about this season.  The moves in season should have been about this season. 

The Celtics play their best when they play big. 


Celtics traded away one of the bigs in the hope that two other bigs will be healthy in the playoffs.  They got one.


And how is Green rebounding like a PG helping this team?  And I saw one game where he played some decent to good defense on Lebron. 

If the celtics play their best when they play big, then that is on Doc. Because we have a big that is healthy and playing well, and if he isn't getting more minutes (only 22 a night) that is on Doc.

"hey, our coach is too stubborn to play our best line up because he doesn't trust the center we have, so we should make moves to placate his stubborness" doesn't strike me as a legitimate argument.

[JohnBagleyValueMeal]

You have to take TS% with a huge grain of salt. It doesn't really translate across positions and doesn't account for the kinds of shots that are available to different players--Green and D West are getting way more open looks than, say, Pierce is.

[angryguy77]

Neither of those statements are true

Jeff Green's true shooting percentage this series: 66.1%

Next closest celtic this series: Delonte West, with a true shooting percentage of 61.8%

And what do you base your other assertion on? Perkins' minutes would most likely come at the expense of Jermaine O'neal, not BBD. JO played 28 minutes last night, and could have played more but Doc chose not to.

You're right on this. Doc choose not to play JO more. He repeatedly forced Davis on the floor more than he needed to. His rotations were an epic fail

[wdleehi]

Show me where I mention another trade option? 

This season was about this season.  The moves in the offseason was about this season.  The moves in season should have been about this season. 

The Celtics play their best when they play big. 


Celtics traded away one of the bigs in the hope that two other bigs will be healthy in the playoffs.  They got one.


And how is Green rebounding like a PG helping this team?  And I saw one game where he played some decent to good defense on Lebron. 

If the celtics play their best when they play big, then that is on Doc. Because we have a big that is healthy and playing well, and if he isn't getting more minutes (only 22 a night) that is on Doc.

"hey, our coach is too stubborn to play our best line up because he doesn't trust the center we have, so we should make moves to placate his stubborness" doesn't strike me as a legitimate argument.

Giving him more bigs he trust allows him to play big.


If Shaq was healthy, the Celtics would have played big more.


If Perk was here, the Celtics would have played big more.