Author Topic: I change my mind. Someone needs to foul Wade hard. Ridiculous comments.  (Read 17536 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18008
  • Tommy Points: 642

Yeah, perhaps its dirty, but KG and Pierce do that kind of stuff all the time too.  Maybe its a dirty play, but its part of the game, and certainly doesn't even belong in the same sentence as Bynum's cheap shot.  

Well, I'm of the mind that our players are often dirty, too, which is why I can't get too upset.  We make hard contact after the whistle, elbow guys, clutch and grab, set hard (often illegal) screens, etc.  Part of our philosophy is to subtly break the rules a lot without getting caught, to physically impose our will on the other team.

What we don't try to do is intentionally hurt guys.  I don't think Wade was trying to do so, either.

Exactly my thoughts too. 

Offline Mr October

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6129
  • Tommy Points: 247
It stinks that Rondo got hurt, but those are the risks of getting locked up with a bigger player and getting off balance.

I have nothing against Wade other than that is on the side of the enemy.

However I am very angry that he clearly has the protection of the officials vs Ray Allen. Its ridiculous.

Offline wiley

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4855
  • Tommy Points: 386

Yeah, perhaps its dirty, but KG and Pierce do that kind of stuff all the time too.  Maybe its a dirty play, but its part of the game, and certainly doesn't even belong in the same sentence as Bynum's cheap shot.  

Well, I'm of the mind that our players are often dirty, too, which is why I can't get too upset.  We make hard contact after the whistle, elbow guys, clutch and grab, set hard (often illegal) screens, etc.  Part of our philosophy is to subtly break the rules a lot without getting caught, to physically impose our will on the other team.

What we don't try to do is intentionally hurt guys.  I don't think Wade was trying to do so, either.

Exactly my thoughts too. 

I agree that Wade was not intentionally trying to hurt Rondo, but I disagree about the severity the dirtiness.  The Celtics are established as a veteran, physical team, complete with veteran tricks of the trade to get under the other team's skin here and there.  The Heat, and many other teams too, I would argue, are trying so hard not to be intimidated that they are going overboard.  When is the last time you saw a Celtic foul anyone as hard as Wade fouled Pierce on the screen, or James Jones fouling Pierce around the neck?  Then, when is the last time you saw Pierce or Ray Allen forcefully drive the other team's tiny point guard into the floor with brute strength?

Basically, the Heat are the reactionaries in this scenario, overdoing it to counterbalance a self-perceived deficiency in toughness verses the Celtics.


Offline Mr October

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6129
  • Tommy Points: 247

Yeah, perhaps its dirty, but KG and Pierce do that kind of stuff all the time too.  Maybe its a dirty play, but its part of the game, and certainly doesn't even belong in the same sentence as Bynum's cheap shot.  

Well, I'm of the mind that our players are often dirty, too, which is why I can't get too upset.  We make hard contact after the whistle, elbow guys, clutch and grab, set hard (often illegal) screens, etc.  Part of our philosophy is to subtly break the rules a lot without getting caught, to physically impose our will on the other team.

What we don't try to do is intentionally hurt guys.  I don't think Wade was trying to do so, either.

Exactly my thoughts too. 

I agree that Wade was not intentionally trying to hurt Rondo, but I disagree about the severity the dirtiness.  The Celtics are established as a veteran, physical team, complete with veteran tricks of the trade to get under the other team's skin here and there.  The Heat, and many other teams too, I would argue, are trying so hard not to be intimidated that they are going overboard.  When is the last time you saw a Celtic foul anyone as hard as Wade fouled Pierce on the screen, or James Jones fouling Pierce around the neck?  Then, when is the last time you saw Pierce or Ray Allen forcefully drive the other team's tiny point guard into the floor with brute strength?

Basically, the Heat are the reactionaries in this scenario, overdoing it to counterbalance a self-perceived deficiency in toughness verses the Celtics.



Ray Allen elbowing Varejao's groin comes to mind.

Offline barefacedmonk

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7221
  • Tommy Points: 1796
  • The Dude Abides
Quote
#NBA league official tells #CSNNE.com no further action will be taken vs D-Wade for the hard foul that led to rondo's dislocated elbow.

@sherrodbcsn
"An ounce of practice is worth more than tons of preaching." - M.K. Gandhi


Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123

Yeah, perhaps its dirty, but KG and Pierce do that kind of stuff all the time too.  Maybe its a dirty play, but its part of the game, and certainly doesn't even belong in the same sentence as Bynum's cheap shot.  

Well, I'm of the mind that our players are often dirty, too, which is why I can't get too upset.  We make hard contact after the whistle, elbow guys, clutch and grab, set hard (often illegal) screens, etc.  Part of our philosophy is to subtly break the rules a lot without getting caught, to physically impose our will on the other team.

What we don't try to do is intentionally hurt guys.  I don't think Wade was trying to do so, either.

Exactly my thoughts too. 

I agree that Wade was not intentionally trying to hurt Rondo, but I disagree about the severity the dirtiness.  The Celtics are established as a veteran, physical team, complete with veteran tricks of the trade to get under the other team's skin here and there.  The Heat, and many other teams too, I would argue, are trying so hard not to be intimidated that they are going overboard.  When is the last time you saw a Celtic foul anyone as hard as Wade fouled Pierce on the screen, or James Jones fouling Pierce around the neck?  Then, when is the last time you saw Pierce or Ray Allen forcefully drive the other team's tiny point guard into the floor with brute strength?

Basically, the Heat are the reactionaries in this scenario, overdoing it to counterbalance a self-perceived deficiency in toughness verses the Celtics.



Ray Allen elbowing Varejao's groin comes to mind.

  I just don't see that or what KG did to Frye in the same light. How many players receive serious injuries from an elbow like that? People are saying that Wade didn't mean to injure Rondo. I think at best he was trying to bruise him and not break anything.

  Again, if someone put something behind your legs and forcefully pulled you over it backwards onto a hard surface, what would you put the odds on your being injured? Roy and Chris, feel free to answer this. Pulled to the ground backwards with no way to get your legs underneath you onto a hardwood floor. What are the odds you don't end up with *at least* a bruised tailbone/back? What would you really put the odds of something worse happening? Unlikely enough to be considered a freak occurrence?

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18008
  • Tommy Points: 642

Yeah, perhaps its dirty, but KG and Pierce do that kind of stuff all the time too.  Maybe its a dirty play, but its part of the game, and certainly doesn't even belong in the same sentence as Bynum's cheap shot.  

Well, I'm of the mind that our players are often dirty, too, which is why I can't get too upset.  We make hard contact after the whistle, elbow guys, clutch and grab, set hard (often illegal) screens, etc.  Part of our philosophy is to subtly break the rules a lot without getting caught, to physically impose our will on the other team.

What we don't try to do is intentionally hurt guys.  I don't think Wade was trying to do so, either.

Exactly my thoughts too. 

I agree that Wade was not intentionally trying to hurt Rondo, but I disagree about the severity the dirtiness.  The Celtics are established as a veteran, physical team, complete with veteran tricks of the trade to get under the other team's skin here and there.  The Heat, and many other teams too, I would argue, are trying so hard not to be intimidated that they are going overboard.  When is the last time you saw a Celtic foul anyone as hard as Wade fouled Pierce on the screen, or James Jones fouling Pierce around the neck?  Then, when is the last time you saw Pierce or Ray Allen forcefully drive the other team's tiny point guard into the floor with brute strength?

Basically, the Heat are the reactionaries in this scenario, overdoing it to counterbalance a self-perceived deficiency in toughness verses the Celtics.



Ray Allen elbowing Varejao's groin comes to mind.

KG both hitting Frye below the waste, and stepping underneath him as he went up for a jump shot was a pretty dirty, and somewhat dangerous play IMO.  

Offline saltlover

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12490
  • Tommy Points: 2619

Yeah, perhaps its dirty, but KG and Pierce do that kind of stuff all the time too.  Maybe its a dirty play, but its part of the game, and certainly doesn't even belong in the same sentence as Bynum's cheap shot.  

Well, I'm of the mind that our players are often dirty, too, which is why I can't get too upset.  We make hard contact after the whistle, elbow guys, clutch and grab, set hard (often illegal) screens, etc.  Part of our philosophy is to subtly break the rules a lot without getting caught, to physically impose our will on the other team.

What we don't try to do is intentionally hurt guys.  I don't think Wade was trying to do so, either.

Exactly my thoughts too. 

I agree that Wade was not intentionally trying to hurt Rondo, but I disagree about the severity the dirtiness.  The Celtics are established as a veteran, physical team, complete with veteran tricks of the trade to get under the other team's skin here and there.  The Heat, and many other teams too, I would argue, are trying so hard not to be intimidated that they are going overboard.  When is the last time you saw a Celtic foul anyone as hard as Wade fouled Pierce on the screen, or James Jones fouling Pierce around the neck?  Then, when is the last time you saw Pierce or Ray Allen forcefully drive the other team's tiny point guard into the floor with brute strength?

Basically, the Heat are the reactionaries in this scenario, overdoing it to counterbalance a self-perceived deficiency in toughness verses the Celtics.



Ray Allen elbowing Varejao's groin comes to mind.

KG both hitting Frye below the waste, and stepping underneath him as he went up for a jump shot was a pretty dirty, and somewhat dangerous play IMO.  


Yes, it was a dirty play.  And he was tossed from the game. 

When the Celtics do dirty things, they get called for it, from the media, fans, other players, and the league.  Even by fans on this site.  But when the Heat play dirty, and they're "just asserting their toughness" or "playing playoff basketball."  That's why a lot of us are mad, beyond the injury to Rondo.  Wade should have earned himself at least two flagrant fouls in this series.  Instead, he's merely gotten a technical that got Paul Pierce thrown out of the game.  And that is why I, who generally am a very peaceful dude, want the C's to take him out this game.  If the NBA won't give out any punishment when deserved, then the Celtics have to.

Offline angryguy77

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7925
  • Tommy Points: 654

Yeah, perhaps its dirty, but KG and Pierce do that kind of stuff all the time too.  Maybe its a dirty play, but its part of the game, and certainly doesn't even belong in the same sentence as Bynum's cheap shot.  

Well, I'm of the mind that our players are often dirty, too, which is why I can't get too upset.  We make hard contact after the whistle, elbow guys, clutch and grab, set hard (often illegal) screens, etc.  Part of our philosophy is to subtly break the rules a lot without getting caught, to physically impose our will on the other team.

What we don't try to do is intentionally hurt guys.  I don't think Wade was trying to do so, either.

Exactly my thoughts too. 

I agree that Wade was not intentionally trying to hurt Rondo, but I disagree about the severity the dirtiness.  The Celtics are established as a veteran, physical team, complete with veteran tricks of the trade to get under the other team's skin here and there.  The Heat, and many other teams too, I would argue, are trying so hard not to be intimidated that they are going overboard.  When is the last time you saw a Celtic foul anyone as hard as Wade fouled Pierce on the screen, or James Jones fouling Pierce around the neck?  Then, when is the last time you saw Pierce or Ray Allen forcefully drive the other team's tiny point guard into the floor with brute strength?

Basically, the Heat are the reactionaries in this scenario, overdoing it to counterbalance a self-perceived deficiency in toughness verses the Celtics.



Ray Allen elbowing Varejao's groin comes to mind.
AV was standing over Allen on purpose as he was trying to stand up. He had that coming to him.
Back to wanting Joe fired.

Offline SalmonAndMashedPotatoes

  • Jrue Holiday
  • Posts: 366
  • Tommy Points: 119
People are getting caught up in the grey area between intentional and reckless.  Wade did not intentionally injure Rondo, but he did engage in reckless behavior.  Normally, nobody gets hurt and it's playoff basketball and we forget about it because the physicality of playoff basketball engenders some recklessness.  But when somebody acts reckless and an injury results, there should be consequences.

KG's elbow to QRich's face in the 2010 playoffs illustrated the difference between recklessness and inflicting intentional harm.  KG didn't 'intentionally' elbow QRich in the face, but he did recklessly throw an elbow that landed on somebody's head, and for that he was ejected and suspended for the next game.  It wasn't intentional, but it was reckless and since somebody was hurt there had to be consequences to that recklessness (even though QRich was the instigator in that incident).

The difference between the two incidents illustrates how perception about certain players informs one's reaction.  When KG elbowed QRich, ESPN slo-mo-ed every camera angle they had until they found the footage that showed KG's elbow.  The officials took 15 minutes to review everything.  KG was ejected and the league office had no choice but to suspend him for the next game.  In game 3 on Saturday, the broadcast team choose not to focus on Wade's behavior, but instead on the severity of the injury.  No discussion of Wade's role in the injury, no slo-mo replays showing Wade sweeping Rondo's legs out from under him (using a commonplace MMA move), and no connection was made between Wade's chippy play in this series and how it finally resulted in someone getting hurt.  ESPN's decision not to play up that angle meant that there wasn't the kind of public outcry that followed KG's elbow (and remember, ESPN is on record as pre-determining story lines before each game in pre-game production meetings, and then starts playing up this or that story line depending on what happens during the game).  You wanna know why?  The "KG is a punk" or "KG is a dirty player" story line is a well-established ESPN talking point, whereas the same story line as applied to DWade has never been developed.  

Just think about it this way: if KG gets 'tangled up' with Lebron and Lebron ends up dislocating an elbow, do you really think ESPN would have completely ignored KG's role in that injury?  Hell no, Lebron would have been driven to the hospital and KG would have been ejected.

***

Now, I'd never recommend that anyone intentionally injure another player.  That's not basketball.  What I would advocate is making a very physical play on the ball the next time Wade tries to drive the rim, not something that injures Wade, but something that makes him think twice about driving the lane next time.  That's how you respond to chippy play--in kind with similarly chippy play. 
Folly. Persist.

Offline wiley

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4855
  • Tommy Points: 386
People are getting caught up in the grey area between intentional and reckless.  Wade did not intentionally injure Rondo, but he did engage in reckless behavior.  Normally, nobody gets hurt and it's playoff basketball and we forget about it because the physicality of playoff basketball engenders some recklessness.  But when somebody acts reckless and an injury results, there should be consequences.

KG's elbow to QRich's face in the 2010 playoffs illustrated the difference between recklessness and inflicting intentional harm.  KG didn't 'intentionally' elbow QRich in the face, but he did recklessly throw an elbow that landed on somebody's head, and for that he was ejected and suspended for the next game.  It wasn't intentional, but it was reckless and since somebody was hurt there had to be consequences to that recklessness (even though QRich was the instigator in that incident).

The difference between the two incidents illustrates how perception about certain players informs one's reaction.  When KG elbowed QRich, ESPN slo-mo-ed every camera angle they had until they found the footage that showed KG's elbow.  The officials took 15 minutes to review everything.  KG was ejected and the league office had no choice but to suspend him for the next game.  In game 3 on Saturday, the broadcast team choose not to focus on Wade's behavior, but instead on the severity of the injury.  No discussion of Wade's role in the injury, no slo-mo replays showing Wade sweeping Rondo's legs out from under him (using a commonplace MMA move), and no connection was made between Wade's chippy play in this series and how it finally resulted in someone getting hurt.  ESPN's decision not to play up that angle meant that there wasn't the kind of public outcry that followed KG's elbow (and remember, ESPN is on record as pre-determining story lines before each game in pre-game production meetings, and then starts playing up this or that story line depending on what happens during the game).  You wanna know why?  The "KG is a punk" or "KG is a dirty player" story line is a well-established ESPN talking point, whereas the same story line as applied to DWade has never been developed.  

Just think about it this way: if KG gets 'tangled up' with Lebron and Lebron ends up dislocating an elbow, do you really think ESPN would have completely ignored KG's role in that injury?  Hell no, Lebron would have been driven to the hospital and KG would have been ejected.

***

Now, I'd never recommend that anyone intentionally injure another player.  That's not basketball.  What I would advocate is making a very physical play on the ball the next time Wade tries to drive the rim, not something that injures Wade, but something that makes him think twice about driving the lane next time. 

Excellent post.  TP.

Offline saltlover

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12490
  • Tommy Points: 2619
People are getting caught up in the grey area between intentional and reckless.  Wade did not intentionally injure Rondo, but he did engage in reckless behavior.  Normally, nobody gets hurt and it's playoff basketball and we forget about it because the physicality of playoff basketball engenders some recklessness.  But when somebody acts reckless and an injury results, there should be consequences.

KG's elbow to QRich's face in the 2010 playoffs illustrated the difference between recklessness and inflicting intentional harm.  KG didn't 'intentionally' elbow QRich in the face, but he did recklessly throw an elbow that landed on somebody's head, and for that he was ejected and suspended for the next game.  It wasn't intentional, but it was reckless and since somebody was hurt there had to be consequences to that recklessness (even though QRich was the instigator in that incident).

The difference between the two incidents illustrates how perception about certain players informs one's reaction.  When KG elbowed QRich, ESPN slo-mo-ed every camera angle they had until they found the footage that showed KG's elbow.  The officials took 15 minutes to review everything.  KG was ejected and the league office had no choice but to suspend him for the next game.  In game 3 on Saturday, the broadcast team choose not to focus on Wade's behavior, but instead on the severity of the injury.  No discussion of Wade's role in the injury, no slo-mo replays showing Wade sweeping Rondo's legs out from under him (using a commonplace MMA move), and no connection was made between Wade's chippy play in this series and how it finally resulted in someone getting hurt.  ESPN's decision not to play up that angle meant that there wasn't the kind of public outcry that followed KG's elbow (and remember, ESPN is on record as pre-determining story lines before each game in pre-game production meetings, and then starts playing up this or that story line depending on what happens during the game).  You wanna know why?  The "KG is a punk" or "KG is a dirty player" story line is a well-established ESPN talking point, whereas the same story line as applied to DWade has never been developed.  

Just think about it this way: if KG gets 'tangled up' with Lebron and Lebron ends up dislocating an elbow, do you really think ESPN would have completely ignored KG's role in that injury?  Hell no, Lebron would have been driven to the hospital and KG would have been ejected.

***

Now, I'd never recommend that anyone intentionally injure another player.  That's not basketball.  What I would advocate is making a very physical play on the ball the next time Wade tries to drive the rim, not something that injures Wade, but something that makes him think twice about driving the lane next time. 


Agreed on this.  The current ESPN meme on this is now that the Perkins trade made the Celtics soft, which is why the Heat have been allowed to play tough.  In other words, it's the Celtics fault the Heat are getting away with flagrants.  Maybe TNT will play up a different story line tonight, but I doubt it.

Offline SalmonAndMashedPotatoes

  • Jrue Holiday
  • Posts: 366
  • Tommy Points: 119

Agreed on this.  The current ESPN meme on this is now that the Perkins trade made the Celtics soft, which is why the Heat have been allowed to play tough.  In other words, it's the Celtics fault the Heat are getting away with flagrants.  Maybe TNT will play up a different story line tonight, but I doubt it.

Great point about ESPN and how they're portraying Miami's chippy play.  TP for you.

The TNT broadcast ethic is much more game-driven, meaning they don't pre-determine story lines and then fit whatever happens in the game into their pre-determined story line.  They actually value the intelligence of their viewers, and let the game tell the story (instead of telling the story of the game, as ESPN does). 
Folly. Persist.

Offline mgent

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7567
  • Tommy Points: 1962
I respected Wade before yesterday's game, now I despise him. Just own up man, ain't that hard.

Meh, what would KG do? He'd be saying some of the same stuff, or just playing 'no commenting' the thing (which Wade should be doing).

Wade's just tryin to act hard, like he's above it. He's coming off as a bit of a primadonnna, but I don't think he's doing anything particularly sinister.
KG would never get away with the crap DWade pulls.  He did the SAME THING multiple times in that game and never got so much as a warning.  It should have been a technical the first time early in the game when Pierce fouled him and Wade pulled him down with him.  He should have been gone after the pull down on Rondo.

How the hell do you possibly get away with trying to pull a guy who's in the air down after a foul has been called and the game has stopped?  I was standing up yelling at the refs thinking "that's how players get hurt."  They let him keep doing it and GUESS WHAT HAPPENED??  As if he doesn't get enough BS man-love from them on offense, does he really need to get away with dirty crap like this?  I know they are ESPN's favorite team of all time, and we all know Stern bends over backwards for the popular players, but I never thought I'd see the day where he lets unnecessary injury causing behavior just keep going on.  What if God-forbid, Wade had hurt Kobe or Rose?  Mark my words if KG EVER did that even ONCE it would have been at the least a tech, if not a flagrant.

The second LeBron took his loser-self to south beach one of my first thoughts was, "Great, a year from now I'm not even gonna like Wade at all anymore."
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Offline KindBass

  • Xavier Tillman
  • Posts: 30
  • Tommy Points: 4
Rooting for a D Wade broken arm isn't that bad, right?  I mean, it will fully heal in 6 weeks...
"When I was a rookie, [Bird] and Kevin McHale were arguing.  So I asked Kevin McHale what they were arguing about.  And he says, 'we're just trying to figure out who you're going to guard.'  I said, 'what you mean?' and he said, 'oh, you're dead meat, rook.'" - Charles Barkley