I change my mind. Someone needs to foul Wade hard. Ridiculous comments.

[saltlover]

I go back and forth about retaliation.  I definitely disagree with those who still say it wasn't dirty.  It was.  The whistle had blown, Wade was falling down and pulled down Rondo with him to try to draw a foul against Rondo.  That's dirty like Derek Fisher.  Rondo got a flagrant for less against the Knicks last series (and I thought it was a correct decision to give him one.)  And as others have pointed out, that wasn't Wade's only dirty play that game.

I'm not sure the value about retaliating, both morally and strategically.  If they do, it should be Shaq, because he's a) big, and b) is injured anyway, so a game on the sidelines if he gets suspended isn't the end of the world.  But also, if they retaliate, they need to plan it in advance, and make sure that no matter what happens to Shaq (or whomever the retaliator is) that no one goes to back him up if a fight breaks out.  The C's are really emotional, and we don't need KG or Pierce getting ejected/suspended themselves for being involved in any aftermath.  That would be the worst outcome.

I also feel if the league had given Wade a flagrant in the past two days that this could help quell the need for retaliation, by admitting it was a dirty play and punishing him appropriately.  In not doing so, they are in a sense asking the C's to take matters into their own hands.

[chambers]

Eh, I am kind of with Wade on this one.  If Rondo hadn't fallen awkwardly, that would be just another foul.  Guys pull each other down all the time, and most of the time its not even a personal foul.  I don't think we can hold it against him that Rondo fell awkwardly on it. 

  Imagine falling down backwards because someone pulls you back.

  Now imagine being pulled down backwards with something behind your legs so you can't back up at all. Is there any possible way to *not* fall awkwardly? Try and justify it however you want, but Wade trapped Rondo's legs and pulled him down backwards with enough force to bend his elbow the wrong way when he landed. What if he hadn't stuck his hand out? He would have just taken all that force on his hip, back or head.

It's easier to understand if you've played basketball at a very competitive level. This stuff happens all the time. Hell, even Ray and Paul Pierce have done this stuff before.
Sure Wade was trying to rough Rondo up a little bit because he was playing well and the Heat needed to slow him down. Wade didn't know he'd hurt him that badly though.
Think about how often physical defenders like Artest or Bruce Bowen used to pull this move. MJ was a CHRONIC offender.
It sucks that Rondo's season was almost ended but you have to look at it from both sides.

[BballTim]

Eh, I am kind of with Wade on this one.  If Rondo hadn't fallen awkwardly, that would be just another foul.  Guys pull each other down all the time, and most of the time its not even a personal foul.  I don't think we can hold it against him that Rondo fell awkwardly on it. 

  Imagine falling down backwards because someone pulls you back.

  Now imagine being pulled down backwards with something behind your legs so you can't back up at all. Is there any possible way to *not* fall awkwardly? Try and justify it however you want, but Wade trapped Rondo's legs and pulled him down backwards with enough force to bend his elbow the wrong way when he landed. What if he hadn't stuck his hand out? He would have just taken all that force on his hip, back or head.

It's easier to understand if you've played basketball at a very competitive level.

  Haha. Go ahead, regale us with your tales of your stints in the NBA playoffs. Your first name must be Tom?

Sure Wade was trying to rough Rondo up a little bit because he was playing well and the Heat needed to slow him down. Wade didn't know he'd hurt him that badly though.

  Wade didn't care one way or another whether he'd hurt him or not. I don't think the word "concerned" would describe his reaction.

Think about how often physical defenders like Artest or Bruce Bowen used to pull this move. MJ was a CHRONIC offender.
It sucks that Rondo's season was almost ended but you have to look at it from both sides.

  If you want to put Wade's play in a class with Artest and Bowen I won't disagree.

[angryguy77]

Eh, I am kind of with Wade on this one.  If Rondo hadn't fallen awkwardly, that would be just another foul.  Guys pull each other down all the time, and most of the time its not even a personal foul.  I don't think we can hold it against him that Rondo fell awkwardly on it.  

  Imagine falling down backwards because someone pulls you back.

  Now imagine being pulled down backwards with something behind your legs so you can't back up at all. Is there any possible way to *not* fall awkwardly? Try and justify it however you want, but Wade trapped Rondo's legs and pulled him down backwards with enough force to bend his elbow the wrong way when he landed. What if he hadn't stuck his hand out? He would have just taken all that force on his hip, back or head.

It's easier to understand if you've played basketball at a very competitive level. This stuff happens all the time. Hell, even Ray and Paul Pierce have done this stuff before.
Sure Wade was trying to rough Rondo up a little bit because he was playing well and the Heat needed to slow him down. Wade didn't know he'd hurt him that badly though.
Think about how often physical defenders like Artest or Bruce Bowen used to pull this move. MJ was a CHRONIC offender.
It sucks that Rondo's season was almost ended but you have to look at it from both sides.

Ball wasn't on the court when he did this. There is a difference. I've never seen Paul or Ray pull someone down so they could fall on top of them. These guys know what can cause an injury, Wade knew that Rondo could be hurt by pulling him down the way he did. Shots are taken throughout the game but this type of cheap does not happen all that often. This was a punk play and you don't take a chance at injuring someone so you can get in their head.

If he had pushed rondo from the back while he was in the air, there wouldn't be anyone defending Wade. When you think about it, this was just as cheap. The way they were positioned and the way Wade hooked his leg made it impossible for Rondo to break his fall in a manner that would prevent an injury. Rondo was made defenseless like a guy who is in the air because he wasn't expecting Wade to do this. Watch the replay, they only fell because Wade fell backwards on purpose. Wade took him down in a manner that is uncalled for. This is not the way you make a statement. I used to like Wade, but he is just a punk to me now.

[sdceltsfan]

how can Wade be so casual about what happened? He literally grabbed on to him, and leaned in to Rondo to have him break his fall.......How bout we have Shaq bearhug Lebron when he's crab-dribbling his way through the lane? 320 lbs of beef right on his knee or something??? Pretty sure it was not his intent for any injury to happen.....but he very much so held on to him.
     At the least he should have said some standard, "It was a split-second moment where nobody knows what is going to happen, and obviously I'm sorry that it ended up with Rondo landing on his arm the way he did." A statement like that would have accomplished a lot more then being a cocky, "oh yea, it happened, MOVING ON..." If this happened to any of those 3 poons on the Heat, it would have been a whole different story......the lack of class involved here is sad.

[Chris]

Eh, I am kind of with Wade on this one.  If Rondo hadn't fallen awkwardly, that would be just another foul.  Guys pull each other down all the time, and most of the time its not even a personal foul.  I don't think we can hold it against him that Rondo fell awkwardly on it. 

  Imagine falling down backwards because someone pulls you back.

  Now imagine being pulled down backwards with something behind your legs so you can't back up at all. Is there any possible way to *not* fall awkwardly? Try and justify it however you want, but Wade trapped Rondo's legs and pulled him down backwards with enough force to bend his elbow the wrong way when he landed. What if he hadn't stuck his hand out? He would have just taken all that force on his hip, back or head.

My only justification is that exact same play happens 3-4 times every game, when guys get wrapped up underneath, and pull each other down.  It is illegal, and a foul, but it is part of the game.  Wade was not trying to hurt Rondo, he was trying to prevent him from having an unimpeded opportunity to grab the loose ball.  

[Roy H.]

Eh, I am kind of with Wade on this one.  If Rondo hadn't fallen awkwardly, that would be just another foul.  Guys pull each other down all the time, and most of the time its not even a personal foul.  I don't think we can hold it against him that Rondo fell awkwardly on it. 

  Imagine falling down backwards because someone pulls you back.

  Now imagine being pulled down backwards with something behind your legs so you can't back up at all. Is there any possible way to *not* fall awkwardly? Try and justify it however you want, but Wade trapped Rondo's legs and pulled him down backwards with enough force to bend his elbow the wrong way when he landed. What if he hadn't stuck his hand out? He would have just taken all that force on his hip, back or head.

My only justification is that exact same play happens 3-4 times every game, when guys get wrapped up underneath, and pull each other down.  It is illegal, and a foul, but it is part of the game.  Wade was not trying to hurt Rondo, he was trying to prevent him from having an unimpeded opportunity to grab the loose ball.  

Yeah, I'd go with "dirty play", but without any intent to injure.  That's what separates it from, say, Bynum's flagrant.

[BballTim]

Eh, I am kind of with Wade on this one.  If Rondo hadn't fallen awkwardly, that would be just another foul.  Guys pull each other down all the time, and most of the time its not even a personal foul.  I don't think we can hold it against him that Rondo fell awkwardly on it. 

  Imagine falling down backwards because someone pulls you back.

  Now imagine being pulled down backwards with something behind your legs so you can't back up at all. Is there any possible way to *not* fall awkwardly? Try and justify it however you want, but Wade trapped Rondo's legs and pulled him down backwards with enough force to bend his elbow the wrong way when he landed. What if he hadn't stuck his hand out? He would have just taken all that force on his hip, back or head.

My only justification is that exact same play happens 3-4 times every game, when guys get wrapped up underneath, and pull each other down.  It is illegal, and a foul, but it is part of the game.  Wade was not trying to hurt Rondo, he was trying to prevent him from having an unimpeded opportunity to grab the loose ball.  

  First of all, the ball was out of bounds before Wade took down Rondo. There was no way Rondo could have gotten to that ball.

  I don't think the exact same thing happens 3-4 times a game. Maybe I'm wrong and we'll see 3-4 similar takedowns tonight or Wednesday or Friday but I doubt it.

[chambers]

Eh, I am kind of with Wade on this one.  If Rondo hadn't fallen awkwardly, that would be just another foul.  Guys pull each other down all the time, and most of the time its not even a personal foul.  I don't think we can hold it against him that Rondo fell awkwardly on it. 

  Imagine falling down backwards because someone pulls you back.

  Now imagine being pulled down backwards with something behind your legs so you can't back up at all. Is there any possible way to *not* fall awkwardly? Try and justify it however you want, but Wade trapped Rondo's legs and pulled him down backwards with enough force to bend his elbow the wrong way when he landed. What if he hadn't stuck his hand out? He would have just taken all that force on his hip, back or head.

 Wade was not trying to hurt Rondo, he was trying to prevent him from having an unimpeded opportunity to grab the loose ball.  

Well said- Happens all the time. People are getting really worked up about it because of the result. This was extremely unlucky but Wade's a competitor and didn't want Rondo getting near the ball so he tried a crafty veteran move and it didn't turn out like he planned- obvious foul but he definitely didn't mean to cause that much pain to Rondo and I can't understand why people think he should apologize for it. It's part of the game, he'll get his by the time we reach 5 games don't worry.

[chambers]

Eh, I am kind of with Wade on this one.  If Rondo hadn't fallen awkwardly, that would be just another foul.  Guys pull each other down all the time, and most of the time its not even a personal foul.  I don't think we can hold it against him that Rondo fell awkwardly on it. 

  Imagine falling down backwards because someone pulls you back.

  Now imagine being pulled down backwards with something behind your legs so you can't back up at all. Is there any possible way to *not* fall awkwardly? Try and justify it however you want, but Wade trapped Rondo's legs and pulled him down backwards with enough force to bend his elbow the wrong way when he landed. What if he hadn't stuck his hand out? He would have just taken all that force on his hip, back or head.

It's easier to understand if you've played basketball at a very competitive level.

  Haha. Go ahead, regale us with your tales of your stints in the NBA playoffs. Your first name must be Tom?

Sure Wade was trying to rough Rondo up a little bit because he was playing well and the Heat needed to slow him down. Wade didn't know he'd hurt him that badly though.

  Wade didn't care one way or another whether he'd hurt him or not. I don't think the word "concerned" would describe his reaction.

Think about how often physical defenders like Artest or Bruce Bowen used to pull this move. MJ was a CHRONIC offender.
It sucks that Rondo's season was almost ended but you have to look at it from both sides.

  If you want to put Wade's play in a class with Artest and Bowen I won't disagree.

Sorry, that came off as conceded so laugh you may
I don't think any Celtics would complain if we had a defender like Artest or Bowen on our current team going after Wade or Lebron and using every trick in the book to stop him.

[angryguy77]

Eh, I am kind of with Wade on this one.  If Rondo hadn't fallen awkwardly, that would be just another foul.  Guys pull each other down all the time, and most of the time its not even a personal foul.  I don't think we can hold it against him that Rondo fell awkwardly on it. 

  Imagine falling down backwards because someone pulls you back.

  Now imagine being pulled down backwards with something behind your legs so you can't back up at all. Is there any possible way to *not* fall awkwardly? Try and justify it however you want, but Wade trapped Rondo's legs and pulled him down backwards with enough force to bend his elbow the wrong way when he landed. What if he hadn't stuck his hand out? He would have just taken all that force on his hip, back or head.

 Wade was not trying to hurt Rondo, he was trying to prevent him from having an unimpeded opportunity to grab the loose ball.  

Well said- Happens all the time. People are getting really worked up about it because of the result. This was extremely unlucky but Wade's a competitor and didn't want Rondo getting near the ball so he tried a crafty veteran move and it didn't turn out like he planned- obvious foul but he definitely didn't mean to cause that much pain to Rondo and I can't understand why people think he should apologize for it. It's part of the game, he'll get his by the time we reach 5 games don't worry.

Unless Rondo has inspector gadget arms, there was no way in blazes he could have even came close to getting that ball. Wade knew that as well. The ball was a mile away from either player and it wasn't until the ball was far out of reach that Wade decided to fall back

[Chris]

Eh, I am kind of with Wade on this one.  If Rondo hadn't fallen awkwardly, that would be just another foul.  Guys pull each other down all the time, and most of the time its not even a personal foul.  I don't think we can hold it against him that Rondo fell awkwardly on it. 

  Imagine falling down backwards because someone pulls you back.

  Now imagine being pulled down backwards with something behind your legs so you can't back up at all. Is there any possible way to *not* fall awkwardly? Try and justify it however you want, but Wade trapped Rondo's legs and pulled him down backwards with enough force to bend his elbow the wrong way when he landed. What if he hadn't stuck his hand out? He would have just taken all that force on his hip, back or head.

My only justification is that exact same play happens 3-4 times every game, when guys get wrapped up underneath, and pull each other down.  It is illegal, and a foul, but it is part of the game.  Wade was not trying to hurt Rondo, he was trying to prevent him from having an unimpeded opportunity to grab the loose ball.  

Yeah, I'd go with "dirty play", but without any intent to injure.  That's what separates it from, say, Bynum's flagrant.

Yeah, perhaps its dirty, but KG and Pierce do that kind of stuff all the time too.  Maybe its a dirty play, but its part of the game, and certainly doesn't even belong in the same sentence as Bynum's cheap shot.  

[angryguy77]

Eh, I am kind of with Wade on this one.  If Rondo hadn't fallen awkwardly, that would be just another foul.  Guys pull each other down all the time, and most of the time its not even a personal foul.  I don't think we can hold it against him that Rondo fell awkwardly on it. 

  Imagine falling down backwards because someone pulls you back.

  Now imagine being pulled down backwards with something behind your legs so you can't back up at all. Is there any possible way to *not* fall awkwardly? Try and justify it however you want, but Wade trapped Rondo's legs and pulled him down backwards with enough force to bend his elbow the wrong way when he landed. What if he hadn't stuck his hand out? He would have just taken all that force on his hip, back or head.

It's easier to understand if you've played basketball at a very competitive level.

  Haha. Go ahead, regale us with your tales of your stints in the NBA playoffs. Your first name must be Tom?

Sure Wade was trying to rough Rondo up a little bit because he was playing well and the Heat needed to slow him down. Wade didn't know he'd hurt him that badly though.

  Wade didn't care one way or another whether he'd hurt him or not. I don't think the word "concerned" would describe his reaction.

Think about how often physical defenders like Artest or Bruce Bowen used to pull this move. MJ was a CHRONIC offender.
It sucks that Rondo's season was almost ended but you have to look at it from both sides.

  If you want to put Wade's play in a class with Artest and Bowen I won't disagree.

Sorry, that came off as conceded so laugh you may
I don't think any Celtics would complain if we had a defender like Artest or Bowen on our current team going after Wade or Lebron and using every trick in the book to stop him.

Ant player could do what those two do. They don't because they aren't human debris. It doesn't take brains to be cheap.

[BballTim]

Eh, I am kind of with Wade on this one.  If Rondo hadn't fallen awkwardly, that would be just another foul.  Guys pull each other down all the time, and most of the time its not even a personal foul.  I don't think we can hold it against him that Rondo fell awkwardly on it. 

  Imagine falling down backwards because someone pulls you back.

  Now imagine being pulled down backwards with something behind your legs so you can't back up at all. Is there any possible way to *not* fall awkwardly? Try and justify it however you want, but Wade trapped Rondo's legs and pulled him down backwards with enough force to bend his elbow the wrong way when he landed. What if he hadn't stuck his hand out? He would have just taken all that force on his hip, back or head.

My only justification is that exact same play happens 3-4 times every game, when guys get wrapped up underneath, and pull each other down.  It is illegal, and a foul, but it is part of the game.  Wade was not trying to hurt Rondo, he was trying to prevent him from having an unimpeded opportunity to grab the loose ball.  

Yeah, I'd go with "dirty play", but without any intent to injure.  That's what separates it from, say, Bynum's flagrant.

  Bynum elbowing JJ in the ribs made it different. If Bynum had simply bumped JJ while he was in the air with enough force that JJ would be unable to land on his feet then it would be pretty much identical.

  I wonder if my different opinion comes from years of watching soccer, where they look at whether you do something that puts another player at risk more than whether you deliberately tried to injure someone. For instance, Howard jumping up and swinging his arms out. The fact that he doesn't know if someone's nearby is less important IMO than the fact that he knows that someone  might be there and if so they'll get an elbow to the head. Wade went a step beyond that because he put Rondo in a defenseless position before he pulled him to the ground.

[Roy H.]

Yeah, perhaps its dirty, but KG and Pierce do that kind of stuff all the time too.  Maybe its a dirty play, but its part of the game, and certainly doesn't even belong in the same sentence as Bynum's cheap shot.  

Well, I'm of the mind that our players are often dirty, too, which is why I can't get too upset.  We make hard contact after the whistle, elbow guys, clutch and grab, set hard (often illegal) screens, etc.  Part of our philosophy is to subtly break the rules a lot without getting caught, to physically impose our will on the other team.

What we don't try to do is intentionally hurt guys.  I don't think Wade was trying to do so, either.