Get Ray Allen more shots please

[FatjohnReturns]

Give him the ball and let him create off the dribble.
The way Ray is being used limits his confidence and you can see it on his face. Players get into rhythm by having the ball in their hands.

[BballTim]

What about the drive and kickout to Ray for a few shots. If you think having Baby or Jermaine shoot jumpers is a good offensive option when you have the greatest 3pt shooter of all time on your team your watching a different game.

  No, the best option is always the uncontested dunk. If you don't think so then you're watching a different game.

  See, I can do that too.

  When Ray has a little daylight they get him the ball and he shoots it. That's just not happening often enough. It turns out that opposing teams try and prevent you from getting more shots for your best shooters.

[FatjohnReturns]

who said the best option wasnt a uncontested dunk." It turns out that opposing teams try and prevent you from getting more shots for your best shooters

really no kidding. Thats where good coaching comes in. How about a drive and kick, or Ray in the pick and roll with KG.

[BballTim]

who said the best option wasnt a uncontested dunk." It turns out that opposing teams try and prevent you from getting more shots for your best shooters

really no kidding. Thats where good coaching comes in. How about a drive and kick, or Ray in the pick and roll with KG.

  Drive and kick is a pretty dangerous play against the Heat. They're covering the passing lanes on those plays *hoping* we'll try and send it out to Ray.

  Do you honestly think that Doc isn't trying to come up with ways to get Ray open, or that a pick and roll hasn't crossed his mind as a possibility? Amazing.

[Chris]

who said the best option wasnt a uncontested dunk." It turns out that opposing teams try and prevent you from getting more shots for your best shooters

really no kidding. Thats where good coaching comes in. How about a drive and kick, or Ray in the pick and roll with KG.

  Drive and kick is a pretty dangerous play against the Heat. They're covering the passing lanes on those plays *hoping* we'll try and send it out to Ray.

  Do you honestly think that Doc isn't trying to come up with ways to get Ray open, or that a pick and roll hasn't crossed his mind as a possibility? Amazing.

Yeah, driving and kicking only really works if the defense collapses on the driver, but for the most part that is not how the Heat have been playing it.  They have sent help from guys on JO/Davis/Rondo, but they are sticking with the shooters. 

[FatjohnReturns]

who said the best option wasnt a uncontested dunk." It turns out that opposing teams try and prevent you from getting more shots for your best shooters

really no kidding. Thats where good coaching comes in. How about a drive and kick, or Ray in the pick and roll with KG.

  Drive and kick is a pretty dangerous play against the Heat. They're covering the passing lanes on those plays *hoping* we'll try and send it out to Ray.

 , or that a pick and roll hasn't crossed his mind as a possibility? Amazing.

Hanst crossed his mind who knows. Yea the Heat have no fear no collapsing on the driver cause your boy Rondo has the ball 95% of the time. He has the ball in his hands more than James and Wade. He rarely makes jumpshots and he cant finish at the rim over Bibby.So why would the Heat collapse on Rondo? There is no need which is why the Heat can cover our shooters so well.

Maybe if they get Ray the ball he could create off the dribble or pick and roll with KG and actually get him involved.

"Do you honestly think that Doc isn't trying to come up with ways to get Ray open"

He had 7 total shots and 2 were blocked in the first minute. So five shots in 47 minutes. Doesnt matter if he is trying or not what he is trying isnt working.

[BballTim]

who said the best option wasnt a uncontested dunk." It turns out that opposing teams try and prevent you from getting more shots for your best shooters

really no kidding. Thats where good coaching comes in. How about a drive and kick, or Ray in the pick and roll with KG.

  Drive and kick is a pretty dangerous play against the Heat. They're covering the passing lanes on those plays *hoping* we'll try and send it out to Ray.

 , or that a pick and roll hasn't crossed his mind as a possibility? Amazing.

Hanst crossed his mind who knows. Yea the Heat have no fear no collapsing on the driver cause your boy Rondo has the ball 95% of the time. He has the ball in his hands more than James and Wade. He rarely makes jumpshots and he cant finish at the rim over Bibby.So why would the Heat collapse on Rondo? There is no need which is why the Heat can cover our shooters so well.

Maybe if they get Ray the ball he could create off the dribble or pick and roll with KG and actually get him involved.

"Do you honestly think that Doc isn't trying to come up with ways to get Ray open"

He had 7 total shots and 2 were blocked in the first minute. So five shots in 47 minutes. Doesnt matter if he is trying or not what he is trying isnt working.

  First of all, saying that Rondo has the ball 95% of the time or that he has it more than Wade and James is complete and utter nonsense. And it's true that what Doc's trying to get Ray open for more shots isn't working. That's what I've been saying. But your blaming the situation on bad coaching is nonsense, and if any of your plans to get Ray more open looks would work then Doc would have been using them since the first quarter in game 1.

[MBz]

who said the best option wasnt a uncontested dunk." It turns out that opposing teams try and prevent you from getting more shots for your best shooters

really no kidding. Thats where good coaching comes in. How about a drive and kick, or Ray in the pick and roll with KG.

  Drive and kick is a pretty dangerous play against the Heat. They're covering the passing lanes on those plays *hoping* we'll try and send it out to Ray.

 , or that a pick and roll hasn't crossed his mind as a possibility? Amazing.

Hanst crossed his mind who knows. Yea the Heat have no fear no collapsing on the driver cause your boy Rondo has the ball 95% of the time. He has the ball in his hands more than James and Wade. He rarely makes jumpshots and he cant finish at the rim over Bibby.So why would the Heat collapse on Rondo? There is no need which is why the Heat can cover our shooters so well.

Maybe if they get Ray the ball he could create off the dribble or pick and roll with KG and actually get him involved.

"Do you honestly think that Doc isn't trying to come up with ways to get Ray open"

He had 7 total shots and 2 were blocked in the first minute. So five shots in 47 minutes. Doesnt matter if he is trying or not what he is trying isnt working.

  First of all, saying that Rondo has the ball 95% of the time or that he has it more than Wade and James is complete and utter nonsense. And it's true that what Doc's trying to get Ray open for more shots isn't working. That's what I've been saying. But your blaming the situation on bad coaching is nonsense, and if any of your plans to get Ray more open looks would work then Doc would have been using them since the first quarter in game 1.

Agreed.  The primary reason it's difficult to get Allen shots at times is lack of inside scoring.  It's why we started the game by trying to use Jermaine to pound inside and he's just not capable of it.  We need that inside scoring to make defenders in the perimeter collapse inside to them.  With no inside scoring, it's going to be very difficult to get Allen going.  It really all comes back to Shaq, he's the one guy who can score at will in the paint.  Pierce doesn't have the ability to get to the rim when he wants like LeBron to make up for it.  Rondo's guy sags off of him 10 feet so he can't beat him to the rim.  If we get some inside scoring, it will make Ray and Pierce's life much easier.

[FatjohnReturns]

Oh please. Rondo has the ball in his hands all the time in the open court and more than any other player in the half court. No others Celtics barely touch the ball unless its a catch and shoot or a one dribble then shoot.

And it's true that what Doc's trying to get Ray open for more shots isn't working. That's what I've been saying

Except you fail to give a reason for why the Heat perimeter players can play the passing lanes so effectively and stay with the shooters.So here it is again
"Rondo rarely makes jumpshots and he cant finish at the rim over Bibby.So why would the Heat collapse on Rondo? There is no need which is why the Heat can cover our shooters so well."


Top to bottom we have a much better roster. These guys are not being utilized correctly. When we needed to score in the fourth we have Big Baby taking jumpshots. 3HOF players and we have Big Baby shooting jumpers with the game on the line and you dont question the coaching calls?

But your blaming the situation on bad coaching is nonsense

 

[FatjohnReturns]

who said the best option wasnt a uncontested dunk." It turns out that opposing teams try and prevent you from getting more shots for your best shooters

really no kidding. Thats where good coaching comes in. How about a drive and kick, or Ray in the pick and roll with KG.

  Drive and kick is a pretty dangerous play against the Heat. They're covering the passing lanes on those plays *hoping* we'll try and send it out to Ray.

 , or that a pick and roll hasn't crossed his mind as a possibility? Amazing.

Hanst crossed his mind who knows. Yea the Heat have no fear no collapsing on the driver cause your boy Rondo has the ball 95% of the time. He has the ball in his hands more than James and Wade. He rarely makes jumpshots and he cant finish at the rim over Bibby.So why would the Heat collapse on Rondo? There is no need which is why the Heat can cover our shooters so well.

Maybe if they get Ray the ball he could create off the dribble or pick and roll with KG and actually get him involved.

"Do you honestly think that Doc isn't trying to come up with ways to get Ray open"

He had 7 total shots and 2 were blocked in the first minute. So five shots in 47 minutes. Doesnt matter if he is trying or not what he is trying isnt working.

  First of all, saying that Rondo has the ball 95% of the time or that he has it more than Wade and James is complete and utter nonsense. And it's true that what Doc's trying to get Ray open for more shots isn't working. That's what I've been saying. But your blaming the situation on bad coaching is nonsense, and if any of your plans to get Ray more open looks would work then Doc would have been using them since the first quarter in game 1.

Agreed.  The primary reason it's difficult to get Allen shots at times is lack of inside scoring.  It's why we started the game by trying to use Jermaine to pound inside and he's just not capable of it.  We need that inside scoring to make defenders in the perimeter collapse inside to them.  With no inside scoring, it's going to be very difficult to get Allen going.  It really all comes back to Shaq, he's the one guy who can score at will in the paint.  Pierce doesn't have the ability to get to the rim when he wants like LeBron to make up for it.  Rondo's guy sags off of him 10 feet so he can't beat him to the rim.  If we get some inside scoring, it will make Ray and Pierce's life much easier.

Yes I agree about the importance of a inside threat for the C's being a contributing factor to the Heats perimeter defense.
Rondos limited game is the other factor.

[BballTim]

Oh please. Rondo has the ball in his hands all the time in the open court and more than any other player in the half court. No others Celtics barely touch the ball unless its a catch and shoot or a one dribble then shoot.

And it's true that what Doc's trying to get Ray open for more shots isn't working. That's what I've been saying

Except you fail to give a reason for why the Heat perimeter players can play the passing lanes so effectively and stay with the shooters.So here it is again
"Rondo rarely makes jumpshots and he cant finish at the rim over Bibby.So why would the Heat collapse on Rondo? There is no need which is why the Heat can cover our shooters so well."

  I would have thought that the reason the Heat perimeter players can play the passing lanes so effectively and stay with the shooters was extremely obvious. They have, and I don't think it's even close, the most athletic pair of wing defenders in the game probably going back as for as MJ and Pippen. And do I also need to mention that both of those uber-athletic wings have been on multiple all-defense teams?

  Claiming that the Heat only defend like this because of Rondo is ridiculous.

Top to bottom we have a much better roster. These guys are not being utilized correctly. When we needed to score in the fourth we have Big Baby taking jumpshots. 3HOF players and we have Big Baby shooting jumpers with the game on the line and you dont question the coaching calls?

But your blaming the situation on bad coaching is nonsense

  We might have a deeper roster or a better overall roster but it's pretty clear that we don't have a better top of the roster than the Heat. Saying the roster isn't being utilized correctly basically means that you don't see the effect that the Heat are having on our offense. Was Ray utilized correctly against the Knicks? If so, what changed? Did Doc say "ok, against the Heat, Ray's a decoy and Baby's taking the most shots"?

[FatjohnReturns]

Oh please. Rondo has the ball in his hands all the time in the open court and more than any other player in the half court. No others Celtics barely touch the ball unless its a catch and shoot or a one dribble then shoot.

And it's true that what Doc's trying to get Ray open for more shots isn't working. That's what I've been saying

Except you fail to give a reason for why the Heat perimeter players can play the passing lanes so effectively and stay with the shooters.So here it is again
"Rondo rarely makes jumpshots and he cant finish at the rim over Bibby.So why would the Heat collapse on Rondo? There is no need which is why the Heat can cover our shooters so well."

  I would have thought that the reason the Heat perimeter players can play the passing lanes so effectively and stay with the shooters was extremely obvious. They have, and I don't think it's even close, the most athletic pair of wing defenders in the game probably going back as for as MJ and Pippen. And do I also need to mention that both of those uber-athletic wings have been on multiple all-defense teams?

  Claiming that the Heat only defend like this because of Rondo is ridiculous.

Top to bottom we have a much better roster. These guys are not being utilized correctly. When we needed to score in the fourth we have Big Baby taking jumpshots. 3HOF players and we have Big Baby shooting jumpers with the game on the line and you dont question the coaching calls?

But your blaming the situation on bad coaching is nonsense

  We might have a deeper roster or a better overall roster but it's pretty clear that we don't have a better top of the roster than the Heat. Saying the roster isn't being utilized correctly basically means that you don't see the effect that the Heat are having on our offense. Was Ray utilized correctly against the Knicks? If so, what changed? Did Doc say "ok, against the Heat, Ray's a decoy and Baby's taking the most shots"?

Ray scored 25 points on 9-13 shooting in Game 1. Then in Game 2 after the first minute he gets five attempts in 33 minutes. While I agree with this statement about Lebron and Wade " the most athletic pair of wing defenders in the game probably going back as for as MJ and Pippen" This is the same Heat defense as it was in Game 1 and Ray shot 69%fga on 13 shots.

Ray was the only Celtic who shot really well in game 1 and we follow that up with getting him 5 attempts after the first minute.
Less than any other starter.

It is absolutely bad coaching. You do not go away from whats working the previous game its dumb.

[BballTim]

Oh please. Rondo has the ball in his hands all the time in the open court and more than any other player in the half court. No others Celtics barely touch the ball unless its a catch and shoot or a one dribble then shoot.

And it's true that what Doc's trying to get Ray open for more shots isn't working. That's what I've been saying

Except you fail to give a reason for why the Heat perimeter players can play the passing lanes so effectively and stay with the shooters.So here it is again
"Rondo rarely makes jumpshots and he cant finish at the rim over Bibby.So why would the Heat collapse on Rondo? There is no need which is why the Heat can cover our shooters so well."

  I would have thought that the reason the Heat perimeter players can play the passing lanes so effectively and stay with the shooters was extremely obvious. They have, and I don't think it's even close, the most athletic pair of wing defenders in the game probably going back as for as MJ and Pippen. And do I also need to mention that both of those uber-athletic wings have been on multiple all-defense teams?

  Claiming that the Heat only defend like this because of Rondo is ridiculous.

Top to bottom we have a much better roster. These guys are not being utilized correctly. When we needed to score in the fourth we have Big Baby taking jumpshots. 3HOF players and we have Big Baby shooting jumpers with the game on the line and you dont question the coaching calls?

But your blaming the situation on bad coaching is nonsense

  We might have a deeper roster or a better overall roster but it's pretty clear that we don't have a better top of the roster than the Heat. Saying the roster isn't being utilized correctly basically means that you don't see the effect that the Heat are having on our offense. Was Ray utilized correctly against the Knicks? If so, what changed? Did Doc say "ok, against the Heat, Ray's a decoy and Baby's taking the most shots"?

Ray scored 25 points on 9-13 shooting in Game 1. Then in Game 2 after the first minute he gets five attempts in 33 minutes. While I agree with this statement about Lebron and Wade " the most athletic pair of wing defenders in the game probably going back as for as MJ and Pippen" This is the same Heat defense as it was in Game 1 and Ray shot 69%fga on 13 shots.

Ray was the only Celtic who shot really well in game 1 and we follow that up with getting him 5 attempts after the first minute.
Less than any other starter.

It is absolutely bad coaching. You do not go away from whats working the previous game its dumb.

  Not to change the subject, but at what point in the game did Ray get that chest bruise?

  Also, teams make adjustments from game to game. How many open threes did Jones get in game 2?

[FatjohnReturns]

Jones only shot one field goal in Game 2 and it wasnt a 3ptr.
I didnt see any adjustments from Game 1 on Ray. They continued doing what they have been running out hard and contesting the shooters.

[BballTim]

Jones only shot one field goal in Game 2 and it wasnt a 3ptr.
I didnt see any adjustments from Game 1 on Ray. They continued doing what they have been running out hard and contesting the shooters.

  So if there were no adjustments made on Ray are you saying that he was frequently open and we weren't getting him the ball? I didn't see that.