Is Al Jefferson a Career Loser or Victim of Circumstance?

[GreenFaith1819]

He needs the right situation and coach. If we had Al, our anemic offense would have a much needed dimension -  A GREAT POST UP SCORER - We settle for far too many jumpers. The following guys would rather shoot outside than play in the post -

Kevin
Kristic
JO
Baby
Murphy
PP (he CAN actually post, but has not been lately)

...so we are back to waiting for Shaq (who can't hold a candle to Al in the post these days)

Good Points.

Some here in the thread compared him to Zach Randolph. That is a good comparison, but even with that Big Al is IMO the best low-post player out there right now. He was trained by our own Kevin McHale before he left Minny, if I'm not mistaken. The guy lives and thrives down there in the paint.

My only question was how would he potentially fit in Green? Well, these stats here from NBA.com shows a growth in his assists, continued very solid play in the paint (nearly 50%), averaging a career high in blocks....he's still young, too at 26 years old.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/al_jefferson/career_stats.html

Check out his Game Logs, too...the guy has played well vs ORL, LA...you name it. No one has really forced him into a bad game, save maybe once vs LA.

Not trying to deflect the thread here, but if he somehow ended up in Green - would he or could he play Center with KG at PF? I'd say yes. With a quality PG like Rondo who is pass-first, I could see Big Al continuing to get better.

Rondo would make it work. And I don't think that Ray, Paul or KG would mind a lowpost beast taking pressure off of them.

Imagine a year or two with KG in his head, too. He would probably not have the same gaudy stats and he'd have to commit to defense, but I'm sure he would do it.

From what I remember, Big Al was close with Rondo before he was traded for our own KG, as well.

Yes - more I look at this, Al Jefferson is a victim of circumstance. If Danny is somehow looking for the next Big for the future, I hope he considers Big Al if Dwight doesn't come here.

I know that I am admittedly reaching, though - I realize that his market value would probably require us to give up quite a few pieces for him, unfortunately.

[miraclejohan]

I've always wondered what Al would have matured into if he was here with KG holding accountable for himself.  I love Al, but he has the tendency to be selfish, both in terms of his play and his emotions (at least through how I observe his body language on the court).  He always says the right things and says he just wants to win and wants to be a leader, but he has only been put in situations where he was destined to fail.  Nobody (except KG) could become a 1-man-army on a sucky team.  

Try to imagine Al's optimism finally getting to Utah this year only to have Deron defect and destroy the team.  I can only imagine that the "loser" mentality must cross his own mind every day.  I really hope that doesn't happen and I really hope someone can actually mentor him in a way that he responds to.  Defensive accountability is his biggest weakness and he needs someone he respects to call him on that instead of looking around and shaking his head.

All that said, if he could be had and could have the verterans on the Cs help him out, I'd be all for it.  Consider this: Danny would have eventually gotten Ray and Garnett and returned Delonte, Jeff Green, and Big Al to the C's, meaning we would have traded Gerald Green, Gomes, Telfair, picks and contracts for those 2.  I'll take Gomes back too.  And Scals....

Ranting and rambling.  Big Al gets to me.  Always pulling for him.  

[2short]

labeling him?
al jefferson needs to work on defense and passing or he will never become the all star that so many thought we were trading away to get kg
he has great low post moves which would be even better if he'd kick the ball out to any open teammate (see akeem)
to me he's a pf but his defense at that posistion wouldn't improve either with his work ethic, he just doesn't seem to put much effort into defense
on a great team the defense could be overlooked or hidden within team game BUT he isn't on great team

[Brendan]

Victim of his own circumstances. He's still a very good big man, but he's not a two way player. I think on a very good team his efficiency and defense would improve with a bit less focus on going to him so much. We may never know though.

[MBz]

He's a victim of circumstance I think.  The issue with the Jazz was the Deron Williams/Jerry Sloan relationship.  The talent Utah took back was good, but it was not as good as Deron Williams.  You can't blame Al there.

[RedsCeltics34]

I think Big Al can be an important piece on a winning team.  I mean, his skill set is very similar to Zach Randolph, who has really turned his career around lately. 

I think if you surround Big Al with a strong veteran presence -- say, on this Boston team, playing center -- I think he'd excel.  He needs to commit himself more on the defensive end, and that definitely limits him, but I don't consider him to be hopeless or a loser in any way.

(Confession:  I wrote my post before reading all of yours.  The Zach Randolph comparison is dead on, at least on the court, I think.  I think Randolph has finally started to "get it", and I expect that Big Al will, too.)

I'll never understand this - this notion that Z-Bo has "matured" and "turned his career around." Zach Randolph is playing the exact same way he played in Portland. He's just surrounded with much more talent now.

"I think Randolph has finally started to "get it",

Get what? His last year in Portland is pretty much the same year he's having now. It helps to be surrounded by Gasol, Mayo, Conley etc. He's the exact same player with the exact same skillset. People like to say he "matured" as a way of rationalizing that Randolph is contributing to a winning team.

Meanwhile, the fact of the matter is that if anything, Randolph was completely underrated in the latter half of his Portland career. People just notice him now because he's on a playoff team. He's slightly more efficient now - but really, he's the same player. There was no maturation - it's just that he was really good back in the day and no one noticed because of his off-court exploits.

No cmon, give Z-Bo his credit. He DID mature. Have you watched him? Not only has his game matured but his attitude has matured. He used to literally dribble the ball up court try and cross people and fire 3's... none of that in memphis, winning has helped him mature as a player. & what do you mean being surrounded by "Conley, Mayo & Gasol" is the reason he seems changed? Mayo is kind of a bust & Conley was considered 1 before this season, the Grizzlies as a team changed the second they acquired Zach Randolph.

[Roy H.]

I think Big Al can be an important piece on a winning team.  I mean, his skill set is very similar to Zach Randolph, who has really turned his career around lately. 

I think if you surround Big Al with a strong veteran presence -- say, on this Boston team, playing center -- I think he'd excel.  He needs to commit himself more on the defensive end, and that definitely limits him, but I don't consider him to be hopeless or a loser in any way.

(Confession:  I wrote my post before reading all of yours.  The Zach Randolph comparison is dead on, at least on the court, I think.  I think Randolph has finally started to "get it", and I expect that Big Al will, too.)

I'll never understand this - this notion that Z-Bo has "matured" and "turned his career around." Zach Randolph is playing the exact same way he played in Portland. He's just surrounded with much more talent now.

"I think Randolph has finally started to "get it",

Get what? His last year in Portland is pretty much the same year he's having now. It helps to be surrounded by Gasol, Mayo, Conley etc. He's the exact same player with the exact same skillset. People like to say he "matured" as a way of rationalizing that Randolph is contributing to a winning team.

Meanwhile, the fact of the matter is that if anything, Randolph was completely underrated in the latter half of his Portland career. People just notice him now because he's on a playoff team. He's slightly more efficient now - but really, he's the same player. There was no maturation - it's just that he was really good back in the day and no one noticed because of his off-court exploits.

No cmon, give Z-Bo his credit. He DID mature. Have you watched him? Not only has his game matured but his attitude has matured. He used to literally dribble the ball up court try and cross people and fire 3's... none of that in memphis, winning has helped him mature as a player. & what do you mean being surrounded by "Conley, Mayo & Gasol" is the reason he seems changed? Mayo is kind of a bust & Conley was considered 1 before this season, the Grizzlies as a team changed the second they acquired Zach Randolph.

I missed the quoted post before, but I agree with you.  If people are arguing that Randolph doesn't look any different than he did in Portland, and who are crediting O.J. Mayo with helping turn around the Grizzlies, then I don't have much to say other than to watch League Pass more. 

Randolph has been acknowledged as a leader in that locker room (which is scary), and who was recently called his team's MVP by his coach.  He's playing a much more mature game on the court, but most importantly he's dedicated off the hardwood, too. 

As for Mayo, he's playing 20 minutes per game off the bench and is shooting around 40% from the field.  The Grizzlies tried to ship him out of town for a bag of beans.  He's not the key to anything.

[zerophase]

It's just unluckiness with most of Jefferson's problems... He was scheduled to make the playoffs in Utah until Sloan retired and they shipped off Williams.

I think that Jefferson should stop playing center and come back to PF. He's the only one in the NBA that has his incredible array of post scoring moves- an offense so much better than any other post player (like Howard) but he can't play defense. However, a lot of players don't have to be good one on one defenders to play defense. If Baby can do it, he can too.

He just needs to go to a good situation and stay there for a couple years. I don't know if he can do that with his current salary but I do like him as a person and think he can still be an All-star and great.

[RedsCeltics34]

I think Big Al can be an important piece on a winning team.  I mean, his skill set is very similar to Zach Randolph, who has really turned his career around lately. 

I think if you surround Big Al with a strong veteran presence -- say, on this Boston team, playing center -- I think he'd excel.  He needs to commit himself more on the defensive end, and that definitely limits him, but I don't consider him to be hopeless or a loser in any way.

(Confession:  I wrote my post before reading all of yours.  The Zach Randolph comparison is dead on, at least on the court, I think.  I think Randolph has finally started to "get it", and I expect that Big Al will, too.)

I'll never understand this - this notion that Z-Bo has "matured" and "turned his career around." Zach Randolph is playing the exact same way he played in Portland. He's just surrounded with much more talent now.

"I think Randolph has finally started to "get it",

Get what? His last year in Portland is pretty much the same year he's having now. It helps to be surrounded by Gasol, Mayo, Conley etc. He's the exact same player with the exact same skillset. People like to say he "matured" as a way of rationalizing that Randolph is contributing to a winning team.

Meanwhile, the fact of the matter is that if anything, Randolph was completely underrated in the latter half of his Portland career. People just notice him now because he's on a playoff team. He's slightly more efficient now - but really, he's the same player. There was no maturation - it's just that he was really good back in the day and no one noticed because of his off-court exploits.

No cmon, give Z-Bo his credit. He DID mature. Have you watched him? Not only has his game matured but his attitude has matured. He used to literally dribble the ball up court try and cross people and fire 3's... none of that in memphis, winning has helped him mature as a player. & what do you mean being surrounded by "Conley, Mayo & Gasol" is the reason he seems changed? Mayo is kind of a bust & Conley was considered 1 before this season, the Grizzlies as a team changed the second they acquired Zach Randolph.

I missed the quoted post before, but I agree with you.  If people are arguing that Randolph doesn't look any different than he did in Portland, and who are crediting O.J. Mayo with helping turn around the Grizzlies, then I don't have much to say other than to watch League Pass more. 

Randolph has been acknowledged as a leader in that locker room (which is scary), and who was recently called his team's MVP by his coach.  He's playing a much more mature game on the court, but most importantly he's dedicated off the hardwood, too. 

As for Mayo, he's playing 20 minutes per game off the bench and is shooting around 40% from the field.  The Grizzlies tried to ship him out of town for a bag of beans.  He's not the key to anything.

My thoughts exactly Roy. I found it crazy how people are saying the guy hasnt matured at all, thats outrageous.

[scoop1977]

I think Big Al can be an important piece on a winning team.  I mean, his skill set is very similar to Zach Randolph, who has really turned his career around lately.  

I think if you surround Big Al with a strong veteran presence -- say, on this Boston team, playing center -- I think he'd excel.  He needs to commit himself more on the defensive end, and that definitely limits him, but I don't consider him to be hopeless or a loser in any way.

(Confession:  I wrote my post before reading all of yours.  The Zach Randolph comparison is dead on, at least on the court, I think.  I think Randolph has finally started to "get it", and I expect that Big Al will, too.)

I'll never understand this - this notion that Z-Bo has "matured" and "turned his career around." Zach Randolph is playing the exact same way he played in Portland. He's just surrounded with much more talent now.

"I think Randolph has finally started to "get it",

Get what? His last year in Portland is pretty much the same year he's having now. It helps to be surrounded by Gasol, Mayo, Conley etc. He's the exact same player with the exact same skillset. People like to say he "matured" as a way of rationalizing that Randolph is contributing to a winning team.

Meanwhile, the fact of the matter is that if anything, Randolph was completely underrated in the latter half of his Portland career. People just notice him now because he's on a playoff team. He's slightly more efficient now - but really, he's the same player. There was no maturation - it's just that he was really good back in the day and no one noticed because of his off-court exploits.

Fully agreed, just in a better situation. He seems to have matured off-court though.

As for Big Al, he never learned:
- to pass
- to defend
- to draw fouls

Plus, he's struggled to get in form after that last knee injury in Minny. He looked better in the last third of this season though.

If he's going to be your best player, of course your team is going to be awful. Too flawed of a player.

[KCattheStripe]

I think Big Al can be an important piece on a winning team.  I mean, his skill set is very similar to Zach Randolph, who has really turned his career around lately. 

I think if you surround Big Al with a strong veteran presence -- say, on this Boston team, playing center -- I think he'd excel.  He needs to commit himself more on the defensive end, and that definitely limits him, but I don't consider him to be hopeless or a loser in any way.

(Confession:  I wrote my post before reading all of yours.  The Zach Randolph comparison is dead on, at least on the court, I think.  I think Randolph has finally started to "get it", and I expect that Big Al will, too.)

I'll never understand this - this notion that Z-Bo has "matured" and "turned his career around." Zach Randolph is playing the exact same way he played in Portland. He's just surrounded with much more talent now.

"I think Randolph has finally started to "get it",

Get what? His last year in Portland is pretty much the same year he's having now. It helps to be surrounded by Gasol, Mayo, Conley etc. He's the exact same player with the exact same skillset. People like to say he "matured" as a way of rationalizing that Randolph is contributing to a winning team.

Meanwhile, the fact of the matter is that if anything, Randolph was completely underrated in the latter half of his Portland career. People just notice him now because he's on a playoff team. He's slightly more efficient now - but really, he's the same player. There was no maturation - it's just that he was really good back in the day and no one noticed because of his off-court exploits.

No cmon, give Z-Bo his credit. He DID mature. Have you watched him? Not only has his game matured but his attitude has matured. He used to literally dribble the ball up court try and cross people and fire 3's... none of that in memphis, winning has helped him mature as a player. & what do you mean being surrounded by "Conley, Mayo & Gasol" is the reason he seems changed? Mayo is kind of a bust & Conley was considered 1 before this season, the Grizzlies as a team changed the second they acquired Zach Randolph.

I missed the quoted post before, but I agree with you.  If people are arguing that Randolph doesn't look any different than he did in Portland, and who are crediting O.J. Mayo with helping turn around the Grizzlies, then I don't have much to say other than to watch League Pass more. 

Randolph has been acknowledged as a leader in that locker room (which is scary), and who was recently called his team's MVP by his coach.  He's playing a much more mature game on the court, but most importantly he's dedicated off the hardwood, too. 

As for Mayo, he's playing 20 minutes per game off the bench and is shooting around 40% from the field.  The Grizzlies tried to ship him out of town for a bag of beans.  He's not the key to anything.

I said this in the playoffs thread, but I can't wait for next year when the wing rotation on the Grizz is Rudy/TA/Young/ (Hopefully) Battier and the team gets deeper from whatever they get from Mayo.

[Texstyles]

I have this fealing he may be in green. Here is how I see it happening.  I think the Celtics truly have there eye on D.Howard but I think they will be outbid for him.  That being said I think Celtics next move will to build the team as if Howard was coming,  therefore adding a young SG with potential next year ( lets say maybe trade for Mayo )  Then Once Dwight Howard falls through there fingers they will be looking for a Big and Al will be a FA also.  Time will tell,  but that is what I hope to see happen.  My perfect scenerio would also be if the Celtics could grab DeAndre Jordan from the clippers to play center.

Post Big 3 starters :

PG Rondo
SG Mayo
SF Green
PF Big Al
C  Jordan

I think this lineup would complement each other really well.

[GreenFaith1819]

I have this fealing he may be in green. Here is how I see it happening.  I think the Celtics truly have there eye on D.Howard but I think they will be outbid for him.  That being said I think Celtics next move will to build the team as if Howard was coming,  therefore adding a young SG with potential next year ( lets say maybe trade for Mayo )  Then Once Dwight Howard falls through there fingers they will be looking for a Big and Al will be a FA also.  Time will tell,  but that is what I hope to see happen.  My perfect scenerio would also be if the Celtics could grab DeAndre Jordan from the clippers to play center.

Post Big 3 starters :

PG Rondo
SG Mayo
SF Green
PF Big Al
C  Jordan

I think this lineup would complement each other really well.

I love that lineup.

[scoop1977]

How many games are you expecting to win with that line-up? And what kind of identity would that team have? Would it be a half-court team (Al Jefferson) or a running one (Rondo)?

I don't think it's a good fit:

- DeAndre Jordan is a bad fit next to Jefferson, the blocks would be too clogged. That makes both them a bad fit with Rondo. Teams would just pack the lane.

- All your best scorers are fairly inefficient. Al isn't good enough as a 1st option, Mayo isn't good enough as a 2nd option.

- Mayo and Rondo is a very poor defensive backcourt.

[GreenFaith1819]

How many games are you expecting to win with that line-up? And what kind of identity would that team have? Would it be a half-court team (Al Jefferson) or a running one (Rondo)?

I don't think it's a good fit:

- DeAndre Jordan is a bad fit next to Jefferson, the blocks would be too clogged. That makes both them a bad fit with Rondo. Teams would just pack the lane.

- All your best scorers are fairly inefficient. Al isn't good enough as a 1st option, Mayo isn't good enough as a 2nd option.

- Mayo and Rondo is a very poor defensive backcourt.

What would you propose?