NBA players vote top Floppers

[BudweiserCeltic]

I don't understand why people would make Pierce to be a flopper, or Davis for that matter.

Davis, although he falls, he actually takes the hit. These major floppers who make the list often don't even get touched.

Easy answer.  They're Celtics.  So that they make a mockery of the game is perfectly OK.  However, when Fisher or Ginobili do exactly the same thing...That's very bad.

They're not doing the exact same thing is what I'm saying. It's one thing to someone to blow on you and you fall 10 feet away, than actually getting hit and just falling down. If you don't fall down, even if it's a charge, they're not going to make the call.

[Finkelskyhook]

I don't understand why people would make Pierce to be a flopper, or Davis for that matter.

Davis, although he falls, he actually takes the hit. These major floppers who make the list often don't even get touched.

Easy answer.  They're Celtics.  So that they make a mockery of the game is perfectly OK.  However, when Fisher or Ginobili do exactly the same thing...That's very bad.

They're not doing the exact same thing is what I'm saying. It's one thing to someone to blow on you and you fall 10 feet away, than actually getting hit and just falling down. If you don't fall down, even if it's a charge, they're not going to make the call.

I guess we can agree on that being a problem. 

If they started calling techs on the patently obvious flops, it'd go a long way toward de-WWEizing the game.

[Employee8]

You know what?  I think a great way to eliminate all the flopping is to change the rulebook.  The rule is this, you cannot interfere with the player's ability to shoot the ball and I mean from the waist up.  No hitting the arms, pushing, pulling, any contact in the upper body.  But in the lower part of the body?  Anything goes.  Well, maybe except tripping and fondling the groin (I'm looking at you Ron Artest).  That's where most of the blocking fouls are called.  All that "set your feet" crap needs to go.  Just get in someone's way and keep your arms down and the offensive player would then need to find a way to get the ball in the hoop.  If he's going for a layup and someone gets in his way, tough.

The game would be SO much more fun and much more fluid.  I see a lot more of this in college basketball, there are many noncalls and I've always wished this would translate over to the NBA.

And while we're on the subject of Derek Fisher flopping, I honestly wouldn't mind KG getting suspended one game if he could lay a strong shoulder right into Derek Fisher's jaw and shatter a few teeth, then stand over him and say "NOW THAT AIN'T A FLOP, GOOD JOB FISH!"

[looseball]

I bet Jarron Collins is happy to make ANY list at this point in life...

I don't even know who Jarron Collins is, but I gave you a TP for the insight.

[looseball]

Pierce isn't a flopper, he's a flailer.  Different things.  Flopping is usually on defense and flailing on offense, for one.  Flopping involves hitting the floor and flailing usually doesn't, for another.

I am a bit surprised at no Baby, though - you don't lead the league in charges without flopping quite a bit.  He probably needs more time to establish himself as an elite flopper.

I don't agree with the connection.  When you take a charge, you are more interested in establishing position, than bracing for contact.  So you are more apt to be the one who falls from the contact.

[Interceptor]

I wonder how many people in this thread have actually had someone run into them at high speed.  Spoiler alert:  it hurts, even when you see it coming.  It's not as bad if you follow-through, though, aka fall backwards in the case of taking a charge.

This poster will never dump on Baby for flying backwards when he gets hit, because it only makes sense to do that.  Except for those times when he messes up his landing and smashes the back of his head on the floor... that's no good.

[indeedproceed]

This poster will never dump on Baby for flying backwards when he gets hit, because it only makes sense to do that.  Except for those times when he messes up his landing and smashes the back of his head on the floor... that's no good.

I agree with all that. I think BBD takes a lot of punishment, probably more on the landing than the impact, but a lot.

I'm just saying when he goes down, its on purpose. And that's flopping, right? You almost have to flop to take a charge in today's NBA.

[moiso]

I wonder how many people in this thread have actually had someone run into them at high speed.  Spoiler alert:  it hurts, even when you see it coming.  It's not as bad if you follow-through, though, aka fall backwards in the case of taking a charge.

This poster will never dump on Baby for flying backwards when he gets hit, because it only makes sense to do that.  Except for those times when he messes up his landing and smashes the back of his head on the floor... that's no good.

Good post.  It's kind of like when someone jumps from a great height- it's better to let your feet hit then fall to the ground.  It's going to feel a lot worse if you try to act tough and stay rigid.

[Interceptor]

I agree with all that. I think BBD takes a lot of punishment, probably more on the landing than the impact, but a lot.

I disagree with the second part of this.  Baby is pretty good at controlling his falls most of the time, as you'd expect him to, since he sees the impact coming.  The only exception is when he either misjudges or gets hit really hard, and either cracks his head on the floor or otherwise lands awkwardly.

I'm just saying when he goes down, its on purpose. And that's flopping, right? You almost have to flop to take a charge in today's NBA.

Absolutely it's on purpose at least some of the time, and he'd be a fool not to fall over.  Big Baby holding his ground on a charge is going to put both himself and the other guy at increased risk of injury.  If he did his best to stay standing for charges, I'd be on his case for being reckless.

To extend moiso's analogy, this is why modern cars crumple up like accordions in crashes.  To do otherwise is to risk turning the passengers into paste, because there is less room to absorb the impact.  You either bend, or you break.

EDIT:  and if this is "flopping", I think that the term is so broad as to become meaningless.  I draw a clear distinction between some clown who flails all over the place after incidental contact, and someone who falls over backwards to minimize the chance of getting hurt on a charge.  It's a nice coincidence that "flopping" on a charge might get you a call where you wouldn't get one normally, but it would still be the correct thing to do even if you didn't get rewarded for it.

[Employee8]

I agree with all that. I think BBD takes a lot of punishment, probably more on the landing than the impact, but a lot.

I disagree with the second part of this.  Baby is pretty good at controlling his falls most of the time, as you'd expect him to, since he sees the impact coming.  The only exception is when he either misjudges or gets hit really hard, and either cracks his head on the floor or otherwise lands awkwardly.

I'm just saying when he goes down, its on purpose. And that's flopping, right? You almost have to flop to take a charge in today's NBA.

Absolutely it's on purpose at least some of the time, and he'd be a fool not to fall over.  Big Baby holding his ground on a charge is going to put both himself and the other guy at increased risk of injury.  If he did his best to stay standing for charges, I'd be on his case for being reckless.

To extend moiso's analogy, this is why modern cars crumple up like accordions in crashes.  To do otherwise is to risk turning the passengers into paste, because there is less room to absorb the impact.  You either bend, or you break.

EDIT:  and if this is "flopping", I think that the term is so broad as to become meaningless.  I draw a clear distinction between some clown who flails all over the place after incidental contact, and someone who falls over backwards to minimize the chance of getting hurt on a charge.  It's a nice coincidence that "flopping" on a charge might get you a call where you wouldn't get one normally, but it would still be the correct thing to do even if you didn't get rewarded for it.

Well you certainly changed my view about falling down.  I've always thought that even going down on purpose was flopping, period, and that was despicable.  But you're right, it's a way to preserve your own health.  And the season is really just too long too, everyone gets so beat up by the end of it so you've got to take measures to protect yourself.  And yes, there IS a distinction between obvious flailing after contact and falling down to preserve your health.  TP to you for making a great argument.

[indeedproceed]

I agree with all that. I think BBD takes a lot of punishment, probably more on the landing than the impact, but a lot.

I disagree with the second part of this.  Baby is pretty good at controlling his falls most of the time, as you'd expect him to, since he sees the impact coming.  The only exception is when he either misjudges or gets hit really hard, and either cracks his head on the floor or otherwise lands awkwardly.

I meant not only his landing, but others landing on him.

[screwedupmaniac]

Where is Chauncey Billups? 

[xmuscularghandix]

Paul PIerce is number 14 on the list.

He'd be higher if he was still by himself. Back in the day Pierce knew he had to draw fouls and get to the line, now he only has to do it when it's needed.

But i agree with a lot of you. Pierce is usually selling fouls that exist but wouldn't have been called otherwise, guys like Manu and Bell just make stuff up.

[Timdawgg]

This is the ultimate flop...

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