The keys to beating the Bulls in the Eastern Conference Finals...

[Rondo2287]

For those saying that the Bulls can't score enough, you guys realize that their offense has been quite a bit better than ours, right?

They rank 12th in points per possession, we rank 18th.

That's primarily due to two factors:  they're an excellent offensive rebounding team, and we're extremely turnover prone.  Those are two very real advantages that the Bulls have that they'll be able to exploit.

I think we can beat the Bulls, but they're not the walk in the park that some in here are saying.  As much as I don't like Noah, I think a lot of people are underestimating him, and folks are definitely undervaluing Boozer and the Chicago bench, in my opinion.

Definitely gonna save this for the next CB draft


But yes i agree, people need to stop doing the "player x is better than player Y" stuff, it doesnt work like that.

[Roy H.]

For those saying that the Bulls can't score enough, you guys realize that their offense has been quite a bit better than ours, right?

They rank 12th in points per possession, we rank 18th.

That's primarily due to two factors:  they're an excellent offensive rebounding team, and we're extremely turnover prone.  Those are two very real advantages that the Bulls have that they'll be able to exploit.

I think we can beat the Bulls, but they're not the walk in the park that some in here are saying.  As much as I don't like Noah, I think a lot of people are underestimating him, and folks are definitely undervaluing Boozer and the Chicago bench, in my opinion.

Definitely gonna save this for the next CB draft


But yes i agree, people need to stop doing the "player x is better than player Y" stuff, it doesnt work like that.

Haha.  Well, I don't think I've ever argued, for instance, that Shaq is a better player (currently) than Noah.  I don't think he's a superstar like some do, but I also don't think he's borderline garbage, which is the impression I get from this thread.

[Assassin70]

For those saying that the Bulls can't score enough, you guys realize that their offense has been quite a bit better than ours, right?

They rank 12th in points per possession, we rank 18th.

That's primarily due to two factors:  they're an excellent offensive rebounding team, and we're extremely turnover prone.  Those are two very real advantages that the Bulls have that they'll be able to exploit.

I think we can beat the Bulls, but they're not the walk in the park that some in here are saying.  As much as I don't like Noah, I think a lot of people are underestimating him, and folks are definitely undervaluing Boozer and the Chicago bench, in my opinion.

Definitely gonna save this for the next CB draft


But yes i agree, people need to stop doing the "player x is better than player Y" stuff, it doesnt work like that.

Haha.  Well, I don't think I've ever argued, for instance, that Shaq is a better player (currently) than Noah.  I don't think he's a superstar like some do, but I also don't think he's borderline garbage, which is the impression I get from this thread.

Yes...but just because player X plays better then player Y head to head that doesn't make them "better".  With that said Shaq vs Noah.

Noah doesn't have the strength to deal with Shaq.

Noah is the last jumbo shrimp @ the corporate party quickly eaten up.

[Roy H.]

Yes...but just because player X plays better then player Y head to head that doesn't make them "better".  With that said Shaq vs Noah.

Noah doesn't have the strength to deal with Shaq.

Noah is the last jumbo shrimp @ the corporate party quickly eaten up.

In the playoffs last year Shaq did okay offensively against Noah, but Noah dominated him in rebounding and scored quite a bit on the other end, as well.  Noah -- a guy who isn't really considered a scorer -- had games of 25/13 and 21/20 against Cleveland in the playoffs last year, despite playing on an injured foot.  That production isn't solely attributable to playing against Shaq, but he certainly outproduced him.

[myteamisbetterthanyours]

For those saying that the Bulls can't score enough, you guys realize that their offense has been quite a bit better than ours, right?

They rank 12th in points per possession, we rank 18th.

That's primarily due to two factors:  they're an excellent offensive rebounding team, and we're extremely turnover prone.  Those are two very real advantages that the Bulls have that they'll be able to exploit.

I think we can beat the Bulls, but they're not the walk in the park that some in here are saying.  As much as I don't like Noah, I think a lot of people are underestimating him, and folks are definitely undervaluing Boozer and the Chicago bench, in my opinion.

Definitely gonna save this for the next CB draft


But yes i agree, people need to stop doing the "player x is better than player Y" stuff, it doesnt work like that.

First of all, those are regular season rankings. Regular season rankings don't mean squat in the playoffs.. I personally think stats are overrated anyway, especially all these new whacky ones with the crazy formulas.. Bunch of nonsense if you ask me.. Players arent machines and their not always going to perform exactly as stats suggest they do.. The regular season is like baking chicken in an oven, the playoffs are like deep frying them joints.. Extra crispy. So when you say the Bulls are 12th in offensive scoring per 100 possessions, and the Celtics are ranked 18th, it really isnt going to mean anything come playoff time.  And its not like the stat suggests the Bulls are a way better offensive team than the Celtics, since they are only 6 places apart, and are both in the middle of the pack.  And if you can sit there wit a straight face on skype and tell me that the Bulls, who are a one dimensional offensive team where Rose must dominate and create every play for them, have a better offense than a Celtics team that has four 20,000 pt scorers on its roster with Rondo at the helm and a fresh, more offensively potent bench, then I'll give you a tommy point.

Now back to my point about the playoffs.  Pressure affects performance either negatively or positively.  Pressure affects different players differently.  What I've learned from watching the playoffs over the years is that, teams with players who elevate their game in pressure situations are usually the teams who come out on top.  This seems simple enough, doesnt it? Thats because it is. The playoffs are all about match-ups, point blank, so it really is as simple as saying player x is better than player y.  Especially with teams who are so good defensively as the Bulls and Celtics clearly are.  Its going to come down to who can take advantage of their matchups' weaknesses.  The same thing happens every year.

So with that being said, I really dont think the Bulls match up well with the Celtics (when at full strength).  We really just have too much fire power and players who all do very well under pressure (Paul, Ray, KG, Rondo, Big Baby even) while the Bulls options are pretty much limited to Rose and Boozer.

[Who]

I am not wild about offensive efficiency as a stat. I just don't think it accurately portrays a team's overall offensive ability.

You see a fair number of teams that are fairly mediocre offensively that have an elite penetrator, good perimeter shooters and good offensive rebounders ... that score very highly on this metric but fall off in the playoffs because they run up against an opponent with an elite defense that can game plan for them and do a great job of stopping their offense.

[myteamisbetterthanyours]

I am not wild about offensive efficiency as a stat. I just don't think it accurately portrays a team's overall offensive ability.

You see a fair number of teams that are fairly mediocre offensively that have an elite penetrator, good perimeter shooters and good offensive rebounders ... that score very highly on this metric but fall off in the playoffs because they run up against an opponent with an elite defense that can game plan for them and do a great job of stopping their offense.

TP!

[celticinorlando]

key to beating the bulls will be matching the scrap they have for lose balls, etc.

[Roy H.]

key to beating the bulls will be matching the scrap they have for lose balls, etc.

To add to that, I think additional keys will be controlling defensive rebounds, and keeping Rondo out of foul trouble.

[celticinorlando]

key to beating the bulls will be matching the scrap they have for lose balls, etc.

To add to that, I think additional keys will be controlling defensive rebounds, and keeping Rondo out of foul trouble.

agreed on that...gotta limit their second chance opportunities..it would certainly be a big challenge for rondo..

[myteamisbetterthanyours]

key to beating the bulls will be matching the scrap they have for lose balls, etc.

Yea thats really the biggest problem we're gonna have against them.  The Bulls are extremely scrappy. The Bench Mob have to be on their hustle game.

[action781]

But yes i agree, people need to stop doing the "player x is better than player Y" stuff, it doesnt work like that.

I think in general that you are correct.  Often in basketball the whole is greater (or less than) the sum of it's parts.  I restrain from comparing player x to y usually.

But with the celtics, I actually find it pretty fair to do that if you are trying to look for why they will win.  The reason why is the celtics is one of the top 5 teams in terms of chemistry.  These players all make eachother better.  There aren't many teams whose whole will be greater than its sum of parts by a larger margin than the celtics.

Roy, I agree with your reasoning in regards to Noah's ability to play more minutes than Shaq.  But I think that Shaq for 20 min + JO for 20 min is roughly equal to Noah for 40 min.  So I gave us an "even" at those positions.  One question I have is that you say people are underrating their bench.  Why is that specifically?  I think I was the only one that mentioned them in saying that our bench absolutely kills them.  Our bench will outplay them in 5 out of 6 games pretty easily I think.

[Marcus13]

The key to beating the Bulls is making Rose be a jump shooter.  It's gotten much better, but it's still not in the upper-tier of the league and he can't beat you with it. 

If he is able to slash his way into the lane, it's going to kill us.  He gets the SUPERSTAR whistle now - he's constantly on the line.  Plus, he's an amazing finisher around the rim.

It's going to take both great perimiter and interior defense to stop him

[OsirusCeltics]

For those saying that the Bulls can't score enough, you guys realize that their offense has been quite a bit better than ours, right?

They rank 12th in points per possession, we rank 18th.

That's primarily due to two factors:  they're an excellent offensive rebounding team, and we're extremely turnover prone.  Those are two very real advantages that the Bulls have that they'll be able to exploit.

I think we can beat the Bulls, but they're not the walk in the park that some in here are saying.  As much as I don't like Noah, I think a lot of people are underestimating him, and folks are definitely undervaluing Boozer and the Chicago bench, in my opinion.

Stats are the most misleading thing in the history of the universe

[Roy H.]

For those saying that the Bulls can't score enough, you guys realize that their offense has been quite a bit better than ours, right?

They rank 12th in points per possession, we rank 18th.

That's primarily due to two factors:  they're an excellent offensive rebounding team, and we're extremely turnover prone.  Those are two very real advantages that the Bulls have that they'll be able to exploit.

I think we can beat the Bulls, but they're not the walk in the park that some in here are saying.  As much as I don't like Noah, I think a lot of people are underestimating him, and folks are definitely undervaluing Boozer and the Chicago bench, in my opinion.

Stats are the most misleading thing in the history of the universe

Not really.  That stat reflects which team's offense has been more efficient / better to date.  It's an accurate assessment.

There's an argument that stats can be twisted to reach misleading conclusions, but that stat itself is pretty clear regarding which offense has been better to this point of the season.