The keys to beating the Bulls in the Eastern Conference Finals...

[chambers]

Lets look at the Bulls.
They are looking good offensively lately and their defense is excellent.
They are in my opinion- and most in knowledgeable Celtics fans opinions, the biggest threat to us getting out of the East and meeting the Lakers for all the glory.

Their problems are the weak shooting guard link (they are rotating brewer/korver with bogans starting.)
I also think they are quite thin on the big man side of things.
Their best 4 big men are Noah, Boozer, Asik and Gibson.
Once Boozer is gone- they are going to have boatloads of trouble finding offense from any of these guys in the paint.

This is why I feel the Celtics will have to attack the Bulls in the paint early on and get Noah/Boozer in foul trouble and force them to commit early on- particularly with Shaq in there. He is way to big for Boozer and way too strong for Noah.

Of their shooting guard trio-I can't see any of these guys giving Ray Allen much trouble on either end- which is why Ray is going have to have a monster series- just like he did last year.
Deng is playing well and Pierce is going to have his hands full- as is Rondo obviously, but I think letting Rose shoot as many shots as possible will be fine. The Celtics have shown that this strategy works against teams the Cavs last year, the Lakers and Chicago in previous playoff match ups.
Rebounding is going to be tough vs Boozer and Noah so we are going to have to play an up tempo style particularly when our bench comes on.

And that brings me to our single biggest advantage and the reason we will beat them over 6-7 games.
Our bench.
When you really break it down, comparing the match ups at each position- I really don't think they can stand up to us in a 7 game series when we have Baby, Krstic, Green and Delonte running out there with Ray or Rondo.
Rose, Asik, Korver, Gibson and Brewer is going to be a serious liability for the Bulls against our bench mob.

If Boozer or Noah get in early foul trouble then we gain an immediate advantage.

So what does everyone else think about how to take advantage against the Bulls?
Key factors to beating them? Obviously we want as many bigs as possible but by the time we reach the ECF I think we will have a full squad with a decent amount of playing time together.
Suggestions?

[xmuscularghandix]

I look at the Bulls like this.

Defensively, as a full unit, they are on par with The Celtics. Not to mention that it's the same type of defense.

Offensively they are a one man attack.


The Bulls defense will be facing a more difficult offense where they can't just key against one player, they have to defend for multiple passes.

The Celtics defense will be facing that same type of player as Kobe, Lebron, and D-Wade. Derrick Rose will have the ball a lot, the help defense will have to keep him controlled while also paying attention to outside scorers.

[jdpapa3]

Their weak links on defense are at pg and pf. Our weak link on defense will be sg, assuming that Shaq is back. They have no sg's or swingmen that can really kill Ray off the dribble or otherwise.

As anyone that watched the Jazz vs. Lakers in the playoffs last year can attest, Boozer gets absolutely destroyed by length and any decent offensive player. KG vs. Boozer will be similar to KG/Jamison last year. KG killed him on one leg. They can counter with solid defensive bigs in Asik and Gibson, but that would just make their offense more toothless. We all know one man offenses don't beat the Celtics.

One of their big assets right now is their depth, but I think that only pads your regular season wins(see: Orlando last year). In the playoffs, the rotations tighten up and it's the top 6 collecting all of the minutes.

[chambers]

Their weak links on defense are at pg and pf. Our weak link on defense will be sg, assuming that Shaq is back. They have no sg's or swingmen that can really kill Ray off the dribble or otherwise.

As anyone that watched the Jazz vs. Lakers in the playoffs last year can attest, Boozer gets absolutely destroyed by length and any decent offensive player. KG vs. Boozer will be similar to KG/Jamison last year. KG killed him on one leg. They can counter with solid defensive bigs in Asik and Gibson, but that would just make their offense more toothless. We all know one man offenses don't beat the Celtics.

One of their big assets right now is their depth, but I think that only pads your regular season wins(see: Orlando last year). In the playoffs, the rotations tighten up and it's the top 6 collecting all of the minutes.

i agree on the boozer v KG part.
But I don't quite get the weak link for us at SG part..?
Is it the other way round?
I think Ray has it much easier this year with no ben gordon to guard. Bogans is a good defender but he isn't a triple threat like Ben Gordon.
I'm assuming you mean our SG situation off the bench?

[hwangjini_1]

Good thread chambers, tp for starting a good conversation about the celtics #1 rival in the east.

What worries me is the pg position. Rose is sensational, more than rondo can handle unless rondo is at 100%.

to play devil's advocate....

What if rose gets rondo in foul trouble earlier? If the celtics bench has an achilles heel it is depth at point guard against someone as good as rose. West and arroyo are nice backups, but rose might have a field day against the celtics. Further, the entire celtics team suffers some when rondo is not playing.

Yes, one player can be controlled by the celtics in most cases, but in a short series against a team as good as the bulls, rose could be a difference maker.

This will be a tough series, but the celtics should win. Hopefully, the heat will play the bulls and help wear them down before the bulls  meet the celtics.

[Rondo2287]

Their weak links on defense are at pg and pf. Our weak link on defense will be sg, assuming that Shaq is back. They have no sg's or swingmen that can really kill Ray off the dribble or otherwise.

As anyone that watched the Jazz vs. Lakers in the playoffs last year can attest, Boozer gets absolutely destroyed by length and any decent offensive player. KG vs. Boozer will be similar to KG/Jamison last year. KG killed him on one leg. They can counter with solid defensive bigs in Asik and Gibson, but that would just make their offense more toothless. We all know one man offenses don't beat the Celtics.

One of their big assets right now is their depth, but I think that only pads your regular season wins(see: Orlando last year). In the playoffs, the rotations tighten up and it's the top 6 collecting all of the minutes.

Ya, I dunno Ray Did an excellent job last year in the playoffs.  Im not sure Shaq can come back and provide the same level for us this year

[Who]

Glen Davis and Jermaine O'Neal will be very important.

Shaq is too slow and immobile to play effective pick and roll defense against Derrick Rose. The Celtics will have to turn to BBD and Jermaine who are more athletic and better defensively on the perimeter and more active on team D. That team defense will be imperative to limiting Derrick Rose's offensive impact.

Kevin Garnett will have to stay on Carlos Boozer at all times. Glen Davis when he enters the game will need to take Joakim Noah. Davis simply isn't good enough defensively to check a player like Boozer consistently. Boozer is pretty darn dominant when he has a size advantage over someone. Shaquille O'Neal is too slow to check Boozer and T.Murphy is too weak defensively but Jermaine O'Neal is capable of giving some minutes here when Garnett needs a rest.

Joakim Noah is arguably the best offensive rebounder in the league today. He has a non-stop motor and has terrific stamina which allows him to play all out for 36-42 minutes a night. He also has tremendous quickness and agility in attacking that offensive glass ... makes it real tough to put a body and keep a body on him. This will be a huge task for Glen Davis when he is in the game. It won't be about how many boards he grabs himself as much as well he keeps Noah off the glass.

When Shaq is in the game, the Celtics need to take advantage of his offensive game against Noah. Noah hasn't done well defensively against Shaq in the past + Shaq has been a liability defensively (on pick and rolls to Rose's dribble penetration and on recovering on team D to get back to Noah) and vulnerable on the boards to Noah's quickness/activity so they have to get that offensive contribution for Shaq to .... well not to be dead weight because without that scoring that is exactly what he is in this matchup.

It'll also be important for the C's wings to drop deeper and force perimeter jump shots from the Bulls wings (except Korver). Take away pace. Collapse on Rose's penetration. Chicago's wings aren't good enough with their jump shooting to keep proper spacing for the offense which makes them increasingly vulnerable to scoring droughts.

Other than that, it's business as usual for Boston.

[Rondo2287]

Glen Davis and Jermaine O'Neal will be very important.

Shaq is too slow and immobile to play effective pick and roll defense against Derrick Rose. The Celtics will have to turn to BBD and Jermaine who are more athletic and better defensively on the perimeter and more active on team D. That team defense will be imperative to limiting Derrick Rose's offensive impact.

Kevin Garnett will have to stay on Carlos Boozer at all times. Glen Davis when he enters the game will need to take Joakim Noah. Davis simply isn't good enough defensively to check a player like Boozer consistently. Boozer is pretty darn dominant when he has a size advantage over someone. Shaquille O'Neal is too slow to check Boozer and T.Murphy is too weak defensively but Jermaine O'Neal is capable of giving some minutes here when Garnett needs a rest.

Joakim Noah is arguably the best offensive rebounder in the league today. He has a non-stop motor and has terrific stamina which allows him to play all out for 36-42 minutes a night. He also has tremendous quickness and agility in attacking that offensive glass ... makes it real tough to put a body and keep a body on him. This will be a huge task for Glen Davis when he is in the game. It won't be about how many boards he grabs himself as much as well he keeps Noah off the glass.

When Shaq is in the game, the Celtics need to take advantage of his offensive game against Noah. Noah hasn't done well defensively against Shaq in the past + Shaq has been a liability defensively (on pick and rolls to Rose's dribble penetration and on recovering on team D to get back to Noah) and vulnerable on the boards to Noah's quickness/activity so they have to get that offensive contribution for Shaq to .... well not to be dead weight because without that scoring that is exactly what he is in this matchup.

If he isnt scoring though if he can get Noah into foul trouble on the defensive end that may be a bigger contribution than any points he can get right?

[Who]

Not that concerned about Chicago. I still don't think they matchup well enough against the Celtics to take Boston in a seven game series.

A victory for Chicago would be more about Boston underperforming than the Bulls being the better side. That's the only way they win.

Miami are the biggest threat in the East. They haven't gotten it together yet but there is no denying their talent ... they are a very dangerous team to play against. All it will take is for them to get hot at the wrong time and things will get very complicated very quickly.

[Who]

Glen Davis and Jermaine O'Neal will be very important.

Shaq is too slow and immobile to play effective pick and roll defense against Derrick Rose. The Celtics will have to turn to BBD and Jermaine who are more athletic and better defensively on the perimeter and more active on team D. That team defense will be imperative to limiting Derrick Rose's offensive impact.

Kevin Garnett will have to stay on Carlos Boozer at all times. Glen Davis when he enters the game will need to take Joakim Noah. Davis simply isn't good enough defensively to check a player like Boozer consistently. Boozer is pretty darn dominant when he has a size advantage over someone. Shaquille O'Neal is too slow to check Boozer and T.Murphy is too weak defensively but Jermaine O'Neal is capable of giving some minutes here when Garnett needs a rest.

Joakim Noah is arguably the best offensive rebounder in the league today. He has a non-stop motor and has terrific stamina which allows him to play all out for 36-42 minutes a night. He also has tremendous quickness and agility in attacking that offensive glass ... makes it real tough to put a body and keep a body on him. This will be a huge task for Glen Davis when he is in the game. It won't be about how many boards he grabs himself as much as well he keeps Noah off the glass.

When Shaq is in the game, the Celtics need to take advantage of his offensive game against Noah. Noah hasn't done well defensively against Shaq in the past + Shaq has been a liability defensively (on pick and rolls to Rose's dribble penetration and on recovering on team D to get back to Noah) and vulnerable on the boards to Noah's quickness/activity so they have to get that offensive contribution for Shaq to .... well not to be dead weight because without that scoring that is exactly what he is in this matchup.

If he isnt scoring though if he can get Noah into foul trouble on the defensive end that may be a bigger contribution than any points he can get right?

Yeah, yeah, offensive impact rather than just scoring (Shaq).

Causing Chicago problems ... whether it's foul trouble, causing their defense to give him extra attention and leave others with more space, passing or scoring. Just causing problems and making a positive contribution offensively.

They need that positive contribution offensively to negate his vulnerabilities defensively + on the boards.

[Rondo2287]

Not that concerned about Chicago. I still don't think they matchup well enough against the Celtics to take Boston in a seven game series.

A victory for Chicago would be more about Boston underperforming than the Bulls being the better side. That's the only way they win.

Miami are the biggest threat in the East. They haven't gotten it together yet but there is no denying their talent ... they are a very dangerous team to play against. All it will take is for them to get hot at the wrong time and things will get very complicated very quickly.

Thats funny I really respect your opinion on this stuff, and you hear all the talking heads weather it be espn, csn, or sport radio saying that Chi is going to be the biggest competition for us

[chambers]

Not that concerned about Chicago. I still don't think they matchup well enough against the Celtics to take Boston in a seven game series.

A victory for Chicago would be more about Boston underperforming than the Bulls being the better side. That's the only way they win.

Miami are the biggest threat in the East. They haven't gotten it together yet but there is no denying their talent ... they are a very dangerous team to play against. All it will take is for them to get hot at the wrong time and things will get very complicated very quickly.

I agree that we are the better team and if we lose to Chicago it will be about us being off our A game.

I completely disagree about Miami.
They simply don't have the size and depth to beat us 4 ouf of 7 games with both teams playing at their peak.
Big Z and Bosh and haslem and howard? puh-lleeeassse.
The Chicago starting 5 matches up very well against us bar their SG position.
Lebron and Wade cannot beat us in 7 games. Bosh won't be doing anything against KG- that's been proven time and time again.

each to their own opinions but I'm adamant that I'd much rather see the Heat in the ECF than the Bulls. So would the Celtics. 

[2short]

some keys to our victory (in on way to work haste, no order)

shaq - they have no one who can guard him on the low post

our bench gang!

last night kirk heinrich denied rose the ball and chicago looked absolutely horrible, note to doc this is something to look at, that team relies so much on rose that if he isn't creating they don't know what to do

keep noah off the boards, guy adds so much energy, use all our bigs to beat theirs down

make rose work for everything, have rondo play at 100%, give him a rest bring in dwest have him play 100%, bring in arroyo, over the course of a series no matter how young and in shape rose is he cannot support that team and play defense against 3 pgs.

[Who]

I rate Chicago's team highly ... it's just that I don't think they fare that well against Boston (specifically Boston - not a general comment on Chicago).

Carlos Boozer is a guy who gives them a major contribution and advantage against most team's power forwards but against Boston he'll be going up against Garnett who is the best defensive PF in the league and with KG's size, length and quickness ... he's exactly the type of rangy defender that Boozer struggles with the most.

Then you have Derrick Rose and his ball-dominating ways at the top of the key ... and we have all seen how effective the Celtics team defense has been against players like this over the past few seasons.

That is their two best offensive weapons and the Celtics' defensive strengths matchup superbly against them.

It's not like Chicago is a great offensive team to begin with ... they are mediocre and their best strengths matchup poorly with Boston's defensive attributes.

If it wasn't the Celtics, I would feel a lot better about Chicago's chances in the postseason.

[toinewalka]

The Bulls are young, atheltic, and play hungry.  That, plus they are talented and lead by a great PG make them scarier to me than the Heat.  I think a key is going to be getting back two bruisers (JO an Shaq).  I know people will argue JO isn't a bruiser, but he blocks shots and will give hard fouls when the time comes, and that's what I'm referring to.  If we can keep them from getting their way in the paint, then we are in the driver seat.  They have added some shooters (Butler, Pargo, etc..) late in the season, but they still live/die in the paint. 

The Heat simply have NOTHING to offer in the paint on either end, and LeBron and Wade CANNOT compliment each other.  Bosh is their best indicator on offense because that means the ball is being moved around and they are looking for good match ups and good shots instead of LBJ vs. the world or Wade vs. the world.