ESPN Fab Five Documentary

[soap07]

I love it when people like Adrian Peterson and Jalen Rose...Two men who have accumulated immense wealth because of the opportunities afforded them by primarily white coaches, white run colleges,  and white owners...Play the race card when things don't go exactly the way they think they should go.

Yeah, because clearly, this is what Jalen Rose did.

Also, calling a guy who averaged 14 points a game over 12  year career (also averaged 20 points in 3 seasons) pedestrian is, well, wrong.

[Celtics18]

I missed the show, but it sounds interesting.  Hopefully, it will be on again.  

I can completely understand and empathize with Jalen Rose's thoughts when he was a young man about what Duke basketball symbolized.  On the other hand, I think that Grant Hill had every right to publicly respond to being called an "Uncle Tom."

[Finkelskyhook]

I love it when people like Adrian Peterson and Jalen Rose...Two men who have accumulated immense wealth because of the opportunities afforded them by primarily white coaches, white run colleges,  and white owners...Play the race card when things don't go exactly the way they think they should go.

Yeah, because clearly, this is what Jalen Rose did.

Also, calling a guy who averaged 14 points a game over 12  year career (also averaged 20 points in 3 seasons) pedestrian is, well, wrong.

When the term Uncle Tom is used in any context, Rose is clearly playing the race card.  It's truly hard to make the race case against Krzyzewski based on the demographic of the players on the glorified pickup team he coaches during the summer.

2 points.  If you look at how Rose was paid as a pro..He was paid like a superstar.  He clearly wasn't one at any time in his career.  He had good stats, for the most part, on bad teams.  Played a rip roaring 56 playoff games in those 12 seasons.  He never made an all-star team.  (Meaningless IMHO but I'll mention it anyway) In spite of the fact that he was paid like one.  His career was pedestrian, IMHO)

The fab five were clearly allowed to play a style of basketball at Michigan that they would have never been allowed to play at Duke.  Particularly as freshmen.  IMHO, Rose parlayed that, to his credit, into a very lucrative NBA career. Had he played at Duke, he would have been playing, at best, a backup role to the far more talented Uncle Tom Grant Hill. Rose would have slipped far into the draft.  Simply because the opportunity wouldn't have been there for him.  If Krzyzewski was recruiting and was choosing between the two...Choosing Hill was a no-brainer at the time.  

[Eja117]

Maybe the reason Duke wasn't and doesn't recruit players with "rough" backgrounds is because they don't want to deal with the whole one and done thing and don't want players that will associate with agents and result in them having to vacate years of wins.

Maybe they saw kids acting like rock stars and thought "Step away. Not today."

And as for making their mark in the history books that mark is now erased. Unless the mark we're talking about is something like "most wins vacated"

Again, fair point. Though understand that this only encourages the cycle of elitism in our country. Re: punk kids, Laettner and Bobby Hurley were much worse than the Fab Five. Grant Hill was a class act and has always been an exemplary person (and very proud of his race), so it is unfortunate he's becoming the center of focus here (based on Jalen's words as a kid, mind you), but Laettner and Hurley were much worse than the Fab Five. Great college players, sure. But arrogant punks as well.

Maybe but Jalen didn't say he hated Duke because they had arrogant punks. He said he hated Duke because they had a bunch of Uncle Toms, right?

[JSD]

I need to check if this is On Demand

[Eja117]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6588997

I never liked Jalen Rose and I don't now.   There. I said it.   Go Duke.

[Bahku]

I will forever love Chris Webber for calling the timeout that his team didn't have .... he has certainly put it behind him, (creating The Timeout Foundation, etc.), and survived one of the most embarassing mistakes in the history of sports, but to Tar Heel fans like me, it was the highlight of the season!

[KCattheStripe]

Maybe the reason Duke wasn't and doesn't recruit players with "rough" backgrounds is because they don't want to deal with the whole one and done thing and don't want players that will associate with agents and result in them having to vacate years of wins.

Maybe they saw kids acting like rock stars and thought "Step away. Not today."

And as for making their mark in the history books that mark is now erased. Unless the mark we're talking about is something like "most wins vacated"

Again, fair point. Though understand that this only encourages the cycle of elitism in our country. Re: punk kids, Laettner and Bobby Hurley were much worse than the Fab Five. Grant Hill was a class act and has always been an exemplary person (and very proud of his race), so it is unfortunate he's becoming the center of focus here (based on Jalen's words as a kid, mind you), but Laettner and Hurley were much worse than the Fab Five. Great college players, sure. But arrogant punks as well.

Maybe but Jalen didn't say he hated Duke because they had arrogant punks. He said he hated Duke because they had a bunch of Uncle Toms, right?

Actually what he said was that as a teenager he hated Duke because he thought they only recruited Uncle Toms.  So from the perspective of an angry teenager dealing with an unfair situation growing up, he feels slighted that Duke would never recruit him.

[Eja117]

Maybe the reason Duke wasn't and doesn't recruit players with "rough" backgrounds is because they don't want to deal with the whole one and done thing and don't want players that will associate with agents and result in them having to vacate years of wins.

Maybe they saw kids acting like rock stars and thought "Step away. Not today."

And as for making their mark in the history books that mark is now erased. Unless the mark we're talking about is something like "most wins vacated"

Again, fair point. Though understand that this only encourages the cycle of elitism in our country. Re: punk kids, Laettner and Bobby Hurley were much worse than the Fab Five. Grant Hill was a class act and has always been an exemplary person (and very proud of his race), so it is unfortunate he's becoming the center of focus here (based on Jalen's words as a kid, mind you), but Laettner and Hurley were much worse than the Fab Five. Great college players, sure. But arrogant punks as well.

Maybe but Jalen didn't say he hated Duke because they had arrogant punks. He said he hated Duke because they had a bunch of Uncle Toms, right?

Actually what he said was that as a teenager he hated Duke because he thought they only recruited Uncle Toms.  So from the perspective of an angry teenager dealing with an unfair situation growing up, he feels slighted that Duke would never recruit him.

He benefited greatly from an unfair situation. It is unfair that because he was almost as good as Duke kids at dribbling a basketball he was given a scholarship.  It's more unfair that his buddies were given thousands of dollars they knew they weren't supposed to take. It's even more unfair that because they did the Michigan fans they say they care so much about had to vacate all their wins.  And it would have been extremely unfair if due to his drunken driving he had killed some kid.

Poor Jalen Rose. Life is just so unfair.  Whatever. He's such a hack.

[JoT]

Maybe the reason Duke wasn't and doesn't recruit players with "rough" backgrounds is because they don't want to deal with the whole one and done thing and don't want players that will associate with agents and result in them having to vacate years of wins.

Maybe they saw kids acting like rock stars and thought "Step away. Not today."

And as for making their mark in the history books that mark is now erased. Unless the mark we're talking about is something like "most wins vacated"

Again, fair point. Though understand that this only encourages the cycle of elitism in our country. Re: punk kids, Laettner and Bobby Hurley were much worse than the Fab Five. Grant Hill was a class act and has always been an exemplary person (and very proud of his race), so it is unfortunate he's becoming the center of focus here (based on Jalen's words as a kid, mind you), but Laettner and Hurley were much worse than the Fab Five. Great college players, sure. But arrogant punks as well.

Maybe but Jalen didn't say he hated Duke because they had arrogant punks. He said he hated Duke because they had a bunch of Uncle Toms, right?

Actually what he said was that as a teenager he hated Duke because he thought they only recruited Uncle Toms.  So from the perspective of an angry teenager dealing with an unfair situation growing up, he feels slighted that Duke would never recruit him.

And you know what's interesting? Chris Webber was being recruited to Duke too and almost went there. It's in the documentary.

[KCattheStripe]

Maybe the reason Duke wasn't and doesn't recruit players with "rough" backgrounds is because they don't want to deal with the whole one and done thing and don't want players that will associate with agents and result in them having to vacate years of wins.

Maybe they saw kids acting like rock stars and thought "Step away. Not today."

And as for making their mark in the history books that mark is now erased. Unless the mark we're talking about is something like "most wins vacated"

Again, fair point. Though understand that this only encourages the cycle of elitism in our country. Re: punk kids, Laettner and Bobby Hurley were much worse than the Fab Five. Grant Hill was a class act and has always been an exemplary person (and very proud of his race), so it is unfortunate he's becoming the center of focus here (based on Jalen's words as a kid, mind you), but Laettner and Hurley were much worse than the Fab Five. Great college players, sure. But arrogant punks as well.

Maybe but Jalen didn't say he hated Duke because they had arrogant punks. He said he hated Duke because they had a bunch of Uncle Toms, right?

Actually what he said was that as a teenager he hated Duke because he thought they only recruited Uncle Toms.  So from the perspective of an angry teenager dealing with an unfair situation growing up, he feels slighted that Duke would never recruit him.

He benefited greatly from an unfair situation. It is unfair that because he was almost as good as Duke kids at dribbling a basketball he was given a scholarship.  It's more unfair that his buddies were given thousands of dollars they knew they weren't supposed to take. It's even more unfair that because they did the Michigan fans they say they care so much about had to vacate all their wins.  And it would have been extremely unfair if due to his drunken driving he had killed some kid.

Poor Jalen Rose. Life is just so unfair.  Whatever. He's such a hack.

None of this makes teenage Jalen's opinion less understandable.

[Eja117]

Maybe the reason Duke wasn't and doesn't recruit players with "rough" backgrounds is because they don't want to deal with the whole one and done thing and don't want players that will associate with agents and result in them having to vacate years of wins.

Maybe they saw kids acting like rock stars and thought "Step away. Not today."

And as for making their mark in the history books that mark is now erased. Unless the mark we're talking about is something like "most wins vacated"

Again, fair point. Though understand that this only encourages the cycle of elitism in our country. Re: punk kids, Laettner and Bobby Hurley were much worse than the Fab Five. Grant Hill was a class act and has always been an exemplary person (and very proud of his race), so it is unfortunate he's becoming the center of focus here (based on Jalen's words as a kid, mind you), but Laettner and Hurley were much worse than the Fab Five. Great college players, sure. But arrogant punks as well.

Maybe but Jalen didn't say he hated Duke because they had arrogant punks. He said he hated Duke because they had a bunch of Uncle Toms, right?

Actually what he said was that as a teenager he hated Duke because he thought they only recruited Uncle Toms.  So from the perspective of an angry teenager dealing with an unfair situation growing up, he feels slighted that Duke would never recruit him.

He benefited greatly from an unfair situation. It is unfair that because he was almost as good as Duke kids at dribbling a basketball he was given a scholarship.  It's more unfair that his buddies were given thousands of dollars they knew they weren't supposed to take. It's even more unfair that because they did the Michigan fans they say they care so much about had to vacate all their wins.  And it would have been extremely unfair if due to his drunken driving he had killed some kid.

Poor Jalen Rose. Life is just so unfair.  Whatever. He's such a hack.

None of this makes teenage Jalen's opinion less understandable.

It makes Dukes opinion of him at the time more understandable.

Duke got it 100% completely right about Jalen.

#1.  Couldn't hold a candle to Grant Hill on the court.  

#2.  Thinks he's a rock star.

#3.  Will attract and get into trouble.

Strikes 1,2, and 3.  Is a bad fit for Duke and many other programs.  He thought he was above the game and still does.  

I give the Fab Five one thing.......I don't think any group of losers have ever gotten so much love and adoration.

I tend to follow the Patton theory that America loves a winner and will not tolerate a loser, but for some reason in the case of the Fab Five not only do some people many years later love these losers, but they love them even though they were cheaters too. It's amazing.

I'm amazed that nobody has actually gotten into the basketball side of the Fab Five. I'm amazed nobody like Christian Laetner or Bobby Hurley Sr hasn't just come out and said....."Hey look. They weren't good basketball players.  Duke recruits smart kids. They don't recruit kids that call timeouts when they don't have them and then leave for the pros first shot. Why are we still talking about these kids that never won a thing? Duke doesn't care that you're cool. They don't care that you have baggy shorts and black socks. They don't care what music you listen to. They care if you can play basketball well and the Fab Five didn't."

[GreenNote]

Let's hope that the Heat end up like the Fab Five; with no Championships!

[Eja117]

Let's hope that the Heat end up like the Fab Five; with no Championships!

Actually the Fab Five ended up with no wins after vacating them all. I'm not sure what the Heat would have to do for that.

At least the Fab Five didn't get punished as bad as Reggie Bush who had to be banished from the program.......man that is harsh

[GreenFaith1819]

Well, not sure how this was missed, but evidently Grant Hill and Jalen Rose have cleared the air:

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2011/05/14/20110514jalen-rose-grant-hill-new-charter-school-detroit.html

What a way to put an end to what I thought was a misunderstanding....these two grown men have started a charter school!

So - at the end of the day - regardless of how we may still feel about the issue when it was initially presented - much good has come out of it.

Any time you positively affect the life of a child, it is always a good thing.

Thank you Jalen Rose and Grant Hill - not only for the documentary and the ensuing discussion - but for this!

It is not shocking to me that the happy ending did not get as much press as the unhappy start.