Who else thinks we made out like bandits in the Perkins trade? I know I do.

[barefacedmonk]

He may not have a consistent jumper yet...but he knows how to get his points...

Given that he averages slightly more than 10 points per contest, he very obviously doesn't.

Those other "elite" PGs are the primary offensive weapons on their teams...except Westbrook...but he too at times takes more shots than Durant...or if Durant is out then he takes on the primary role. Rondo doesn't have to do that..he has to facilitate the offense...not look to put up 20+ points every night.

I am not comparing him to anyone. Just pointing out that the evidence directly contradicts your statement. He may know how to get his points, but this is far from a foregone conclusion.

But if that's the concern, given that when the team needs him to score in batches he has been off as many times as he's been on, his ability to slide into what you termed "elite primary offensive weapon PG" role is questionable, at best.

What would you rather have him do? Take his shots and ignore the Big 3? Our team doesn't need him to score in batches....we need the Big 3 and then Green, Krstic and BBD to score for us.

But if you want to ignore the difference in his FGAs and the other players' FGAs...go ahead. Rondo will never average or look for more shots than he is currently does as long as we have the Big 3. You need to attempt a shot to make one.

And I used "elite" and "primary offensive weapon" as separate terms. Rondo is an "elite" PG in this league..."primary offensive weapon" he is not.

[BballTim]

He may not have a consistent jumper yet...but he knows how to get his points...

Given that he averages slightly more than 10 points per contest, he very obviously doesn't.

  Given that he's averaged pretty much the same as Ray or KG in the last two playoffs I'd guess he does. And his TS% is pretty middle of the road for point guards.

[clover]

Wow--the Rondo debate has taken over the Perk trade thread.

So... does this mean that the next step is that someone suggests trading Rondo for Perk?

I am confused and intrigued.

Could be! I've already seen Rondo for Westbrook suggested...

[Roy H.]

Wow--the Rondo debate has taken over the Perk trade thread.

So... does this mean that the next step is that someone suggests trading Rondo for Perk?

I am confused and intrigued.

Could be! I've already seen Rondo for Westbrook suggested...

So long as that is followed by Ray for Durant, I could probably live with it (even though I love Ray!)

[kozlodoev]

He may not have a consistent jumper yet...but he knows how to get his points...

Given that he averages slightly more than 10 points per contest, he very obviously doesn't.

  Given that he's averaged pretty much the same as Ray or KG in the last two playoffs I'd guess he does. And his TS% is pretty middle of the road for point guards.

To be precise, he's averaging 16 points in 40 minutes in said playoffs. I would be wary signing off the scoring future of the franchise to him.

[barefacedmonk]

He may not have a consistent jumper yet...but he knows how to get his points...

Given that he averages slightly more than 10 points per contest, he very obviously doesn't.

  Given that he's averaged pretty much the same as Ray or KG in the last two playoffs I'd guess he does. And his TS% is pretty middle of the road for point guards.

To be precise, he's averaging 16 points in 40 minutes in said playoffs. I would be wary signing off the scoring future of the franchise to him.

The future of the franchise will not include Big 3 as our primary threats. What makes you think that he won't score more points when he doesn't have to keep 3 HOFers satisfied?

Sorry to repost this...but look at his FGA and FGM numbers as compared to the other PGs.

Deron Williams:    FGA - 891  FGM - 400 (.449 FG%)
Chris Paul:        FGA - 770  FGM - 360 (.467 FG%)
Derrick Rose:      FGA - 1291 FGM - 569 (.441 FG%)
Russell Westbrook: FGA - 1132 FGM - 504 (.445 FG%)
Rajon Rondo:       FGA - 514  FGM - 252 (.490 FG%)

He has attempted less than half the number of shots Rose and Westbrook have. How do you score if you don't attempt a shot? His FG% meanwhile is better than those 4.

[Megatron]

He may not have a consistent jumper yet...but he knows how to get his points...

Given that he averages slightly more than 10 points per contest, he very obviously doesn't.

Those other "elite" PGs are the primary offensive weapons on their teams...except Westbrook...but he too at times takes more shots than Durant...or if Durant is out then he takes on the primary role. Rondo doesn't have to do that..he has to facilitate the offense...not look to put up 20+ points every night.

I am not comparing him to anyone. Just pointing out that the evidence directly contradicts your statement. He may know how to get his points, but this is far from a foregone conclusion.

But if that's the concern, given that when the team needs him to score in batches he has been off as many times as he's been on, his ability to slide into what you termed "elite primary offensive weapon PG" role is questionable, at best.

What would you rather have him do? Take his shots and ignore the Big 3? Our team doesn't need him to score in batches....we need the Big 3 and then Green, Krstic and BBD to score for us.

But if you want to ignore the difference in his FGAs and the other players' FGAs...go ahead. Rondo will never average or look for more shots than he is currently does as long as we have the Big 3. You need to attempt a shot to make one.

And I used "elite" and "primary offensive weapon" as separate terms. Rondo is an "elite" PG in this league..."primary offensive weapon" he is not.

[vinnie]

I have not been immpressed with Jeff Green. He has been shooting a decent number from the floor, I believe 46 percent, but he is getting only 2 rebounds in 22 minutes and I think he is averaging .3 assists. The 10.6 points in 22 minutes, however, is good. Overall, however, I would say "bleh" so far in terms of what he has given the team. To me, the guy needs to start playing a lot better to justify a lot of the hoopla I saw around here when the deal was done.

On the other hand, Krstic has been better than I expected rebounding the ball, but I did expect him to score with this team and I expected his defense to be mediocre, which is has been. So, to date, I don't think the Celts have made out like bandits yet.

[bbd24]

Roy, now knowing what Perkins got in terms of contract, would you of gambled on those knees and payed him that kind of money ? for the role he plays on the Celtics ?

OK obviously is, but what about you if you were the Celtic gm ?

If I were the Celtics GM, I would have worried about the off-season in the off-season. 

In this day and age, though, I don't think that an ACL injury is the concern that it once was.  Tom Brady was an MVP after a major knee injury.  Okay, different sport.  What about Amare, who had the dreaded microfracture surgery, and who is now playing like an MVP?

In general, knee injuries aren't the huge concern that they once were.  The caveat to that is when a guy loses cartilage, like JO or Brandon Roy.  Once there's no cushion for your knee, it's going to be painful for the rest of their careers, and that can become a major concern.  However, for a guy coming off his first knee surgery, I wouldn't have any red flags.

The knee issue is just one of the factors. What about the money issue ?  Always a chance of getting nothing for a player if he walks on you. Considering what he landed, were you giving him that kind of money as the Celtics gm ?

I would have evaluated the situation at the end of the year.  I think Perk would have taken a bit less to stay in Boston; he seemed agreeable to the 4 years, $30 million that was thrown out there, and yes, I would have paid him that.

However, I wouldn't have worried about it.  I would have played him until the end of the playoffs, and then would have started worrying about his contract.  If worst came to worst, I would have traded him for a $9 million trade exception and some draft picks.  We could have then used that trade exception to bring in a good player or two.

No, actually if worse came to worse, he walks on you and you get nothing of equal value worth what Ainge got in Green, Krstic, and a 1st round Clipper pick.

You can't guess on trade exceptions and draft picks.  You don't have that hand to deal after this year.  You play the waiting game and you lose even more value than your playing with now.  GM's know that, and know what you can or can't offer at that point.

[Roy H.]

No, actually if worse came to worse, he walks on you and you get nothing of equal value worth what Ainge got in Green, Krstic, and a 1st round Clipper pick.

You can't guess on trade exceptions and draft picks.  You don't have that hand to deal after this year.  You play the waiting game and you lose even more value than your playing with now.  GM's know that, and know what you can or can't offer at that point.

How many big name free agents leave without working out a sign-and-trade, though?  And even if Perk left with no compensation, that's a risk I would have taken so as not to disrupt the chemistry/cohesion, rebounding, and defense of this team.

[Megatron]

I have not been immpressed with Jeff Green. He has been shooting a decent number from the floor, I believe 46 percent, but he is getting only 2 rebounds in 22 minutes and I think he is averaging .3 assists. The 10.6 points in 22 minutes, however, is good. Overall, however, I would say "bleh" so far in terms of what he has given the team. To me, the guy needs to start playing a lot better to justify a lot of the hoopla I saw around here when the deal was done.

On the other hand, Krstic has been better than I expected rebounding the ball, but I did expect him to score with this team and I expected his defense to be mediocre, which is has been. So, to date, I don't think the Celts have made out like bandits yet.

Jeff Green isnt being used correctly. Doc is just throwing him out there when Pierce needs a breather and seeing what happens.

Doc stated he still doesent know what to do with Green so its a work on progress, in my opinion he should be used strickly at the 3 spot backing up Pierce, and should be the main offensive option for the second unit, with Baby as the #2 option.

We wont be able to test that out until players get back from injuries though.

[Neurotic Guy]

No, actually if worse came to worse, he walks on you and you get nothing of equal value worth what Ainge got in Green, Krstic, and a 1st round Clipper pick.

You can't guess on trade exceptions and draft picks.  You don't have that hand to deal after this year.  You play the waiting game and you lose even more value than your playing with now.  GM's know that, and know what you can or can't offer at that point.

How many big name free agents leave without working out a sign-and-trade, though?  And even if Perk left with no compensation, that's a risk I would have taken so as not to disrupt the chemistry/cohesion, rebounding, and defense of this team.

Roy, I've seen you mention these factors before -- I agree that the subjective 'chemistry' factor is real and Perk clearly was a postive contributor to the team psyche, character and espirit de corps.  And defense for sure.  But, with regard to rebounding, we've had struggles in many stretches during Perk's tenure.  I don't think we will be a worse rebounding team without Perk.

[Roy H.]

No, actually if worse came to worse, he walks on you and you get nothing of equal value worth what Ainge got in Green, Krstic, and a 1st round Clipper pick.

You can't guess on trade exceptions and draft picks.  You don't have that hand to deal after this year.  You play the waiting game and you lose even more value than your playing with now.  GM's know that, and know what you can or can't offer at that point.

How many big name free agents leave without working out a sign-and-trade, though?  And even if Perk left with no compensation, that's a risk I would have taken so as not to disrupt the chemistry/cohesion, rebounding, and defense of this team.

Roy, I've seen you mention these factors before -- I agree that the subjective 'chemistry' factor is real and Perk clearly was a postive contributor to the team psyche, character and espirit de corps.  And defense for sure.  But, with regard to rebounding, we've had struggles in many stretches during Perk's tenure.  I don't think we will be a worse rebounding team without Perk.

If you replace Perk with an inferior rebounder in Krstic, how would that help our rebounding?

EDIT:  Sorry, that probably came across as sarcastic.  It wasn't intended to.  However, I think that if you make an area of weakness even weaker, it will become an issue. 

[Celtics18]

No, actually if worse came to worse, he walks on you and you get nothing of equal value worth what Ainge got in Green, Krstic, and a 1st round Clipper pick.

You can't guess on trade exceptions and draft picks.  You don't have that hand to deal after this year.  You play the waiting game and you lose even more value than your playing with now.  GM's know that, and know what you can or can't offer at that point.

How many big name free agents leave without working out a sign-and-trade, though?  And even if Perk left with no compensation, that's a risk I would have taken so as not to disrupt the chemistry/cohesion, rebounding, and defense of this team.

Roy, I've seen you mention these factors before -- I agree that the subjective 'chemistry' factor is real and Perk clearly was a postive contributor to the team psyche, character and espirit de corps.  And defense for sure.  But, with regard to rebounding, we've had struggles in many stretches during Perk's tenure.  I don't think we will be a worse rebounding team without Perk.

If you replace Perk with an inferior rebounder in Krstic, how would that help our rebounding?

The replacement of Perk with Krstic is only temporary until Shaq returns and moves Nenad to the bench.

[Megatron]

No, actually if worse came to worse, he walks on you and you get nothing of equal value worth what Ainge got in Green, Krstic, and a 1st round Clipper pick.

You can't guess on trade exceptions and draft picks.  You don't have that hand to deal after this year.  You play the waiting game and you lose even more value than your playing with now.  GM's know that, and know what you can or can't offer at that point.

How many big name free agents leave without working out a sign-and-trade, though?  And even if Perk left with no compensation, that's a risk I would have taken so as not to disrupt the chemistry/cohesion, rebounding, and defense of this team.

Roy, I've seen you mention these factors before -- I agree that the subjective 'chemistry' factor is real and Perk clearly was a postive contributor to the team psyche, character and espirit de corps.  And defense for sure.  But, with regard to rebounding, we've had struggles in many stretches during Perk's tenure.  I don't think we will be a worse rebounding team without Perk.

If you replace Perk with an inferior rebounder in Krstic, how would that help our rebounding?

I think in general having big guys who put effort in boxing out and jumping would help our rebounding.

We have had a problem with both over the years. KG's jumping/box out level has been fluctuating over the years and we have always had problems with our big guys refusing to box out for rebounds not to mention having no emphasis on offensive rebounding.

Krstic has only been with the team for a few weeks and probably has the most offensive rebounds total recorded by a celtic this season. Im not sure on that but my gut tells me he either has that record or he is close.

What weird to me is that Kevin Love is the leagues leading rebounder. He has about as much athleticism as Perkins, but boxes his man out every single time a shot goes up.

Too many times I have watched Celtics stare flat footed at the ball, and watch it go right by them without even trying for the rebound, I just never understood why we are so bad at rebounding, it almost seems like we dont even want to get the rebound, like our team is allergic to the ball and they dont want to go near it.