Rondo is Overrated

[BballTim]

Rondo is definately overrated on this board.  I mean there have been a number of threads in which people on this board wouldn't trade him straight up for people like Deron Williams.  I mean come on, seriously.

Rondo is a good PG, but he isn't an elite PG and never will be.  I can say that definitively because Rondo hasn't improved his shooting since he has been in the league.  He is an awful shooter (worst foul shooting of his career by far this year).  His FG% is pretty good because he is excellent at taking the ball to the hole and finishing around the rim, but he is a liability in many respects offensively because he can be left open (including the and 1 situations on the drives).  He is a good defender, but even that is greatly exaggerated on this board.

He isn't a top five PG, and is a borderline top 10 PG right now (I mean if you are building a team for the future you would take Rondo over Nash, but Nash is still better then him, just as an example).  Good but not great, and he greatly benefits from his teammates.  Put him an awful team and his deficiencies would be magnified and would play a much larger role in how he is viewed.  

Simple question, if Rondo and Conley switched teams, who is better?

  Rondo's better than Conley in any and all situations. Just because your main criteria for judging point guards is shooting doesn't mean that people who disagree with you overrate Rondo. I'm sure that if you've ever seen Rondo dominate playoff games your first response was either "Conley could easily do the same thing" or "clearly he's not playing that well because he's not a good outside shooter". But the fact is that he does dominate games in the regular season and (more frequently) in the playoffs in spite of his shooting woes.

  Could a player as poor as you think Rondo is average close to a triple double for consecutive playoff series, or average 21/6/12 in a series against a top 5 defense? Or is your point that practically any point guard can do the same thing? If he's borderline top ten then you should easily be able to name 7-8 other pgs that have shown themselves to be capable of better, right?

These PG's are all better then Rondo right now, in no particular order:

C. Paul
D. Williams
D. Rose
S. Nash
T. Parker
R. Westbrook
J. Kidd

So when you say, "Rondo is a good PG, but he isn't an elite PG and never will be.  I can say that definitively because Rondo hasn't improved his shooting since he has been in the league.", did you forget how awful a shooter Jason Kidd was?

Rondo just turned 25...how can you, or anyone else, say that he won't improve?

As a rookie, Jason Kidd shot 69.8% from the line, by his fourth year he was essentially an 80% foul shooter and has been since.  Kidd's third year in the league he shot 37% from the 3PT line.  He was up and down after that, but he pretty much always showed potential to shoot well.  Rondo hasn't ever shown that potential and is actually shooting worse this year, his 5th year in the league.

  I can see the free throw shooting, but he was 34 before he ever shot that well on threes again. That's kind of grasping for straws.

[BballTim]

Rondo is definately overrated on this board.  I mean there have been a number of threads in which people on this board wouldn't trade him straight up for people like Deron Williams.  I mean come on, seriously.

Rondo is a good PG, but he isn't an elite PG and never will be.  I can say that definitively because Rondo hasn't improved his shooting since he has been in the league.  He is an awful shooter (worst foul shooting of his career by far this year).  His FG% is pretty good because he is excellent at taking the ball to the hole and finishing around the rim, but he is a liability in many respects offensively because he can be left open (including the and 1 situations on the drives).  He is a good defender, but even that is greatly exaggerated on this board.

He isn't a top five PG, and is a borderline top 10 PG right now (I mean if you are building a team for the future you would take Rondo over Nash, but Nash is still better then him, just as an example).  Good but not great, and he greatly benefits from his teammates.  Put him an awful team and his deficiencies would be magnified and would play a much larger role in how he is viewed.  

Simple question, if Rondo and Conley switched teams, who is better?

  Rondo's better than Conley in any and all situations. Just because your main criteria for judging point guards is shooting doesn't mean that people who disagree with you overrate Rondo. I'm sure that if you've ever seen Rondo dominate playoff games your first response was either "Conley could easily do the same thing" or "clearly he's not playing that well because he's not a good outside shooter". But the fact is that he does dominate games in the regular season and (more frequently) in the playoffs in spite of his shooting woes.

  Could a player as poor as you think Rondo is average close to a triple double for consecutive playoff series, or average 21/6/12 in a series against a top 5 defense? Or is your point that practically any point guard can do the same thing? If he's borderline top ten then you should easily be able to name 7-8 other pgs that have shown themselves to be capable of better, right?

These PG's are all better then Rondo right now, in no particular order:

C. Paul
D. Williams
D. Rose
S. Nash
T. Parker
R. Westbrook
J. Kidd

So when you say, "Rondo is a good PG, but he isn't an elite PG and never will be.  I can say that definitively because Rondo hasn't improved his shooting since he has been in the league.", did you forget how awful a shooter Jason Kidd was?

Rondo just turned 25...how can you, or anyone else, say that he won't improve?

  Yes, being a poor shooter stops a pg from being elite. Just ask Kidd or Magic or Payton.

True, but all of them were better shooters than he is at this point when they were at their best, and more importantly, they would not hesitate to take the shot when left open.

That is the biggest issue with Rondo's shooting.  Not that he can't hit the shot, but that he will go through stretches when he will refuse to shoot, despite the fact it would be the best decision based on what the defense is giving them.

If Rondo wants to get to the next level, he needs to get over that, and become comfortable enough with that midrange jumper to take it when he needs to, in order to keep defenses honest.

  It's also worth pointing out that Rondo's had 3 years with an eFG% higher than anything Kidd had before he was 35 and 2 years with a better TS% than anything Kidd had before he was 35.

[Chris]

Rondo is definately overrated on this board.  I mean there have been a number of threads in which people on this board wouldn't trade him straight up for people like Deron Williams.  I mean come on, seriously.

Rondo is a good PG, but he isn't an elite PG and never will be.  I can say that definitively because Rondo hasn't improved his shooting since he has been in the league.  He is an awful shooter (worst foul shooting of his career by far this year).  His FG% is pretty good because he is excellent at taking the ball to the hole and finishing around the rim, but he is a liability in many respects offensively because he can be left open (including the and 1 situations on the drives).  He is a good defender, but even that is greatly exaggerated on this board.

He isn't a top five PG, and is a borderline top 10 PG right now (I mean if you are building a team for the future you would take Rondo over Nash, but Nash is still better then him, just as an example).  Good but not great, and he greatly benefits from his teammates.  Put him an awful team and his deficiencies would be magnified and would play a much larger role in how he is viewed.  

Simple question, if Rondo and Conley switched teams, who is better?

  Rondo's better than Conley in any and all situations. Just because your main criteria for judging point guards is shooting doesn't mean that people who disagree with you overrate Rondo. I'm sure that if you've ever seen Rondo dominate playoff games your first response was either "Conley could easily do the same thing" or "clearly he's not playing that well because he's not a good outside shooter". But the fact is that he does dominate games in the regular season and (more frequently) in the playoffs in spite of his shooting woes.

  Could a player as poor as you think Rondo is average close to a triple double for consecutive playoff series, or average 21/6/12 in a series against a top 5 defense? Or is your point that practically any point guard can do the same thing? If he's borderline top ten then you should easily be able to name 7-8 other pgs that have shown themselves to be capable of better, right?

These PG's are all better then Rondo right now, in no particular order:

C. Paul
D. Williams
D. Rose
S. Nash
T. Parker
R. Westbrook
J. Kidd

So when you say, "Rondo is a good PG, but he isn't an elite PG and never will be.  I can say that definitively because Rondo hasn't improved his shooting since he has been in the league.", did you forget how awful a shooter Jason Kidd was?

Rondo just turned 25...how can you, or anyone else, say that he won't improve?

  Yes, being a poor shooter stops a pg from being elite. Just ask Kidd or Magic or Payton.

True, but all of them were better shooters than he is at this point when they were at their best, and more importantly, they would not hesitate to take the shot when left open.

That is the biggest issue with Rondo's shooting.  Not that he can't hit the shot, but that he will go through stretches when he will refuse to shoot, despite the fact it would be the best decision based on what the defense is giving them.

If Rondo wants to get to the next level, he needs to get over that, and become comfortable enough with that midrange jumper to take it when he needs to, in order to keep defenses honest.

  It's also worth pointing out that Rondo's had 3 years with an eFG% higher than anything Kidd had before he was 35 and 2 years with a better TS% than anything Kidd had before he was 35.

Yeah, and a HUGE part of the reason Rondo's eFG% is so high is because he refuses to take a lot of wide open shots, often to the detriment of the team.

Sometimes, you just need to shoot those to get the defenses to at least consider covering you.

[BballTim]

Rondo is definately overrated on this board.  I mean there have been a number of threads in which people on this board wouldn't trade him straight up for people like Deron Williams.  I mean come on, seriously.

Rondo is a good PG, but he isn't an elite PG and never will be.  I can say that definitively because Rondo hasn't improved his shooting since he has been in the league.  He is an awful shooter (worst foul shooting of his career by far this year).  His FG% is pretty good because he is excellent at taking the ball to the hole and finishing around the rim, but he is a liability in many respects offensively because he can be left open (including the and 1 situations on the drives).  He is a good defender, but even that is greatly exaggerated on this board.

He isn't a top five PG, and is a borderline top 10 PG right now (I mean if you are building a team for the future you would take Rondo over Nash, but Nash is still better then him, just as an example).  Good but not great, and he greatly benefits from his teammates.  Put him an awful team and his deficiencies would be magnified and would play a much larger role in how he is viewed.  

Simple question, if Rondo and Conley switched teams, who is better?

  Rondo's better than Conley in any and all situations. Just because your main criteria for judging point guards is shooting doesn't mean that people who disagree with you overrate Rondo. I'm sure that if you've ever seen Rondo dominate playoff games your first response was either "Conley could easily do the same thing" or "clearly he's not playing that well because he's not a good outside shooter". But the fact is that he does dominate games in the regular season and (more frequently) in the playoffs in spite of his shooting woes.

  Could a player as poor as you think Rondo is average close to a triple double for consecutive playoff series, or average 21/6/12 in a series against a top 5 defense? Or is your point that practically any point guard can do the same thing? If he's borderline top ten then you should easily be able to name 7-8 other pgs that have shown themselves to be capable of better, right?

These PG's are all better then Rondo right now, in no particular order:

C. Paul
D. Williams
D. Rose
S. Nash
T. Parker
R. Westbrook
J. Kidd

So when you say, "Rondo is a good PG, but he isn't an elite PG and never will be.  I can say that definitively because Rondo hasn't improved his shooting since he has been in the league.", did you forget how awful a shooter Jason Kidd was?

Rondo just turned 25...how can you, or anyone else, say that he won't improve?

  Yes, being a poor shooter stops a pg from being elite. Just ask Kidd or Magic or Payton.

True, but all of them were better shooters than he is at this point when they were at their best, and more importantly, they would not hesitate to take the shot when left open.

That is the biggest issue with Rondo's shooting.  Not that he can't hit the shot, but that he will go through stretches when he will refuse to shoot, despite the fact it would be the best decision based on what the defense is giving them.

If Rondo wants to get to the next level, he needs to get over that, and become comfortable enough with that midrange jumper to take it when he needs to, in order to keep defenses honest.

  It's also worth pointing out that Rondo's had 3 years with an eFG% higher than anything Kidd had before he was 35 and 2 years with a better TS% than anything Kidd had before he was 35.

Yeah, and a HUGE part of the reason Rondo's eFG% is so high is because he refuses to take a lot of wide open shots, often to the detriment of the team.

Sometimes, you just need to shoot those to get the defenses to at least consider covering you.

  Again, he does shoot some of those, and he's not that far below average for point guards taking those shots. Those long jump shots are the least efficient way to score, and Rondo's the player out of the big 4 that's least likely to make one. Sometimes taking what the defense gives you is simply playing into their hands. Players give Rondo space t help out on Paul and Ray (two of the most efficient scorers in the league) and to keep Rondo from blowing by them. His taking a few more shots won't cause them to abandon what they do.

[Moranis]

Rondo is definately overrated on this board.  I mean there have been a number of threads in which people on this board wouldn't trade him straight up for people like Deron Williams.  I mean come on, seriously.

Rondo is a good PG, but he isn't an elite PG and never will be.  I can say that definitively because Rondo hasn't improved his shooting since he has been in the league.  He is an awful shooter (worst foul shooting of his career by far this year).  His FG% is pretty good because he is excellent at taking the ball to the hole and finishing around the rim, but he is a liability in many respects offensively because he can be left open (including the and 1 situations on the drives).  He is a good defender, but even that is greatly exaggerated on this board.

He isn't a top five PG, and is a borderline top 10 PG right now (I mean if you are building a team for the future you would take Rondo over Nash, but Nash is still better then him, just as an example).  Good but not great, and he greatly benefits from his teammates.  Put him an awful team and his deficiencies would be magnified and would play a much larger role in how he is viewed.  

Simple question, if Rondo and Conley switched teams, who is better?

  Rondo's better than Conley in any and all situations. Just because your main criteria for judging point guards is shooting doesn't mean that people who disagree with you overrate Rondo. I'm sure that if you've ever seen Rondo dominate playoff games your first response was either "Conley could easily do the same thing" or "clearly he's not playing that well because he's not a good outside shooter". But the fact is that he does dominate games in the regular season and (more frequently) in the playoffs in spite of his shooting woes.

  Could a player as poor as you think Rondo is average close to a triple double for consecutive playoff series, or average 21/6/12 in a series against a top 5 defense? Or is your point that practically any point guard can do the same thing? If he's borderline top ten then you should easily be able to name 7-8 other pgs that have shown themselves to be capable of better, right?

These PG's are all better then Rondo right now, in no particular order:

C. Paul
D. Williams
D. Rose
S. Nash
T. Parker
R. Westbrook
J. Kidd

So when you say, "Rondo is a good PG, but he isn't an elite PG and never will be.  I can say that definitively because Rondo hasn't improved his shooting since he has been in the league.", did you forget how awful a shooter Jason Kidd was?

Rondo just turned 25...how can you, or anyone else, say that he won't improve?

  Yes, being a poor shooter stops a pg from being elite. Just ask Kidd or Magic or Payton.

I didn't say that, but all three of those guys hit their foul shots and did pretty much from the moment they entered the league.  Magic, Kidd, and Payton, while not the greatest shooters in the world, were just better all around players then Rondo is at the same point of his career (though him and Payton aren't that far off).  I may be a little harsh on Rondo's lack of improvement in his shooting, but mostly because it just ticks me off.  He should be a much better shooter then he is at this point, especially from the line, and as has been pointed out, he just doesn't shoot when he should because he lacks confidence in his ability to hit the shot. 

[BballTim]

Rondo is definately overrated on this board.  I mean there have been a number of threads in which people on this board wouldn't trade him straight up for people like Deron Williams.  I mean come on, seriously.

Rondo is a good PG, but he isn't an elite PG and never will be.  I can say that definitively because Rondo hasn't improved his shooting since he has been in the league.  He is an awful shooter (worst foul shooting of his career by far this year).  His FG% is pretty good because he is excellent at taking the ball to the hole and finishing around the rim, but he is a liability in many respects offensively because he can be left open (including the and 1 situations on the drives).  He is a good defender, but even that is greatly exaggerated on this board.

He isn't a top five PG, and is a borderline top 10 PG right now (I mean if you are building a team for the future you would take Rondo over Nash, but Nash is still better then him, just as an example).  Good but not great, and he greatly benefits from his teammates.  Put him an awful team and his deficiencies would be magnified and would play a much larger role in how he is viewed.  

Simple question, if Rondo and Conley switched teams, who is better?

  Rondo's better than Conley in any and all situations. Just because your main criteria for judging point guards is shooting doesn't mean that people who disagree with you overrate Rondo. I'm sure that if you've ever seen Rondo dominate playoff games your first response was either "Conley could easily do the same thing" or "clearly he's not playing that well because he's not a good outside shooter". But the fact is that he does dominate games in the regular season and (more frequently) in the playoffs in spite of his shooting woes.

  Could a player as poor as you think Rondo is average close to a triple double for consecutive playoff series, or average 21/6/12 in a series against a top 5 defense? Or is your point that practically any point guard can do the same thing? If he's borderline top ten then you should easily be able to name 7-8 other pgs that have shown themselves to be capable of better, right?

These PG's are all better then Rondo right now, in no particular order:

C. Paul
D. Williams
D. Rose
S. Nash
T. Parker
R. Westbrook
J. Kidd

So when you say, "Rondo is a good PG, but he isn't an elite PG and never will be.  I can say that definitively because Rondo hasn't improved his shooting since he has been in the league.", did you forget how awful a shooter Jason Kidd was?

Rondo just turned 25...how can you, or anyone else, say that he won't improve?

  Yes, being a poor shooter stops a pg from being elite. Just ask Kidd or Magic or Payton.

I didn't say that, but all three of those guys hit their foul shots and did pretty much from the moment they entered the league.  Magic, Kidd, and Payton, while not the greatest shooters in the world, were just better all around players then Rondo is at the same point of his career (though him and Payton aren't that far off).  I may be a little harsh on Rondo's lack of improvement in his shooting, but mostly because it just ticks me off.  He should be a much better shooter then he is at this point, especially from the line, and as has been pointed out, he just doesn't shoot when he should because he lacks confidence in his ability to hit the shot. 

  Payton and Kidd came into the league older than Rondo. They were both a little better by their 5th year stat-wise but neither were better at the same age. Here's a comparison of their accumulated stats over their first 5 years:

  http://bkref.com/tiny/l1mY7

  There's very little separation there.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I've been as much a critic as anybody about Rondo, but Rondo's problems with "eliteness" have nothing to do with shooting. Of course, if he could shoot it would automatically propel him up, but with what he has it's enough if he just improves on them.

Good passer when he can become a great passer (improve accuracy and timing). Good defender when he cab become a great defender (better stopping penetration, less gambling, more discipline). Better job at driving by inferior defenders (and this doesn't mean going for layups). Be more active offensively, don't just stand there dribbling the ball while nothing is happening which happens too much for my tastes, particularly in 4th quarters. Push the ball more, control the pace better.

With all the things we see as "look at how awesome he is", he just has a vast amount he could improve on in just these skills that will make him for me a force to reckon with, and all without having to shoot the ball. And then back it up with consistency.

[KCattheStripe]

Rondo is definately overrated on this board.  I mean there have been a number of threads in which people on this board wouldn't trade him straight up for people like Deron Williams.  I mean come on, seriously.

Rondo is a good PG, but he isn't an elite PG and never will be.  I can say that definitively because Rondo hasn't improved his shooting since he has been in the league.  He is an awful shooter (worst foul shooting of his career by far this year).  His FG% is pretty good because he is excellent at taking the ball to the hole and finishing around the rim, but he is a liability in many respects offensively because he can be left open (including the and 1 situations on the drives).  He is a good defender, but even that is greatly exaggerated on this board.

He isn't a top five PG, and is a borderline top 10 PG right now (I mean if you are building a team for the future you would take Rondo over Nash, but Nash is still better then him, just as an example).  Good but not great, and he greatly benefits from his teammates.  Put him an awful team and his deficiencies would be magnified and would play a much larger role in how he is viewed.  

Simple question, if Rondo and Conley switched teams, who is better?

  Rondo's better than Conley in any and all situations. Just because your main criteria for judging point guards is shooting doesn't mean that people who disagree with you overrate Rondo. I'm sure that if you've ever seen Rondo dominate playoff games your first response was either "Conley could easily do the same thing" or "clearly he's not playing that well because he's not a good outside shooter". But the fact is that he does dominate games in the regular season and (more frequently) in the playoffs in spite of his shooting woes.

  Could a player as poor as you think Rondo is average close to a triple double for consecutive playoff series, or average 21/6/12 in a series against a top 5 defense? Or is your point that practically any point guard can do the same thing? If he's borderline top ten then you should easily be able to name 7-8 other pgs that have shown themselves to be capable of better, right?

These PG's are all better then Rondo right now, in no particular order:

C. Paul
D. Williams
D. Rose
S. Nash
T. Parker
R. Westbrook
J. Kidd

So when you say, "Rondo is a good PG, but he isn't an elite PG and never will be.  I can say that definitively because Rondo hasn't improved his shooting since he has been in the league.", did you forget how awful a shooter Jason Kidd was?

Rondo just turned 25...how can you, or anyone else, say that he won't improve?

  Yes, being a poor shooter stops a pg from being elite. Just ask Kidd or Magic or Payton.

I didn't say that, but all three of those guys hit their foul shots and did pretty much from the moment they entered the league.  Magic, Kidd, and Payton, while not the greatest shooters in the world, were just better all around players then Rondo is at the same point of his career (though him and Payton aren't that far off).  I may be a little harsh on Rondo's lack of improvement in his shooting, but mostly because it just ticks me off.  He should be a much better shooter then he is at this point, especially from the line, and as has been pointed out, he just doesn't shoot when he should because he lacks confidence in his ability to hit the shot. 

Jason Kidd Was below 70% from the line his first four years.

Gary Paton's ft percentages look like the adirondacks. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoga01.html

[scaryjerry]

Lol
these type of threads are hilarious especially when it turns into "4" future hall of famers... really? a 38 year old shaq whos been injured and was suppose to clog the lane?
also, he was voted into the all stgar game 2 years in a row by coaches.
And his own team, with these "4 future hall of famers" respect and have come to accept his role and  growing stature  on the team, as well as the head coach

[Megatron]

Lol
these type of threads are hilarious especially when it turns into "4" future hall of famers... really? a 38 year old shaq whos been injured and was suppose to clog the lane?
also, he was voted into the all stgar game 2 years in a row by coaches.
And his own team, with these "4 future hall of famers" respect and have come to accept his role and  growing stature  on the team, as well as the head coach

Hes inconsistent and routinely puts fourth no effort during games.