Author Topic: Krstic is being overrated  (Read 56480 times)

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Krstic is being overrated
« on: March 07, 2011, 12:59:14 PM »

Online Roy H.

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First things first, let me say that Nenad Krstic's offense has been very good.  For a guy who hasn't learned the system yet, he's played very well.  I don't think anybody can criticize him much for what he's done on the offensive end of the floor, and that includes his offensive rebounding, which has been a very pleasant surprise.

However, I'm surprised by the number of fans who have said something along the lines of "even if Shaq or JO are hurt, we'll be fine because we have Krstic".  I think statements like that really overrate Krstic's game, and underrate the importance of defense and rebounding.

Krstic is a VERY weak defensive rebounder.  You know all the criticism that BBD has gotten about his rebounding?  Well, Krstic is quite a bit worse on that end.  He's grabbing 3.7 defensive rebounds per 36 minutes, an absolutely horrific number.  That's 10th among guys who have played for us this year, and is well behind Paul Pierce (5.0 DRB per 36 minutes).  It's only very slightly better than Delonte West and Marquis Daniels -- 3.5 and 3.4 DRB per 36, respectively -- and isn't far off from Rondo's 2.9 or Ray's 2.8.  That's right:  our starting center is closer to Ray Allen as a rebounder than he is to Paul Pierce (let alone KG or Perk).

It's true that Krstic is new here, but I wouldn't expect his defensive numbers to improve drastically; he's been a very poor defensive rebounder since the '08-'09 season, at least, and has really only had one decent half-season in his career in terms of rebounding.  In other words, it's a major weakness.

Why does this matter?  As I'm sure we all remember, failure to secure defensive rebounds was a big part of our loss in last year's Finals.  We are a middle of the road team in terms of rebounding, and replacing Perk with Krstic hurts tremendously in that area.  Additionally, relying too much on Krstic handcuffs Doc in terms of the lineups he can play; you can't effectively play Krstic at center with either BBD or Jeff Green at power forward, as both of those players are poor rebounders as well.

Similarly, Krstic's defense isn't great.  Again, some of this will improve with familiarity, and Krstic isn't terrible on the defensive end.  He's just not as good as Shaq, JO, or Perk defending guys 1-on-1, and he's not as good as JO or Perk defending the pick-and-roll or on help defense.  He may reach the level of "adequate" on defense, but it will never be a strength.  Part of the strength of our defense is that it allows perimeter players to release their man to our big men waiting in the paint.  Krstic just isn't as imposing down there as JO, Shaq, or Perk.

This isn't a thread to "bash" Krstic.  Like I said, I think he's been great on one end of the floor.  However, I do think it's very important that we have either Shaq or JO back; their presence is going to be a very important piece of our championship puzzle.  As Danny said in the Shaughnessy interview, "Now if Shaq and Jermaine [O'Neal] can't play we could be in trouble".  I agree with that sentiment, and don't want to see people disappointed if Krstic doesn't live up to their perhaps unrealistic expectations. 


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Re: Krstic is being overrated
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2011, 01:02:17 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Considering that we already know these things, where does the overrated come in?

Re: Krstic is being overrated
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2011, 01:02:47 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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cmon roy, this is CB.....its all about the here and the now. hero one day, goat the next. ;)

Re: Krstic is being overrated
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2011, 01:05:16 PM »

Offline RAcker

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I was expecting chants of "MVP" when he goes to the freethrow line on Wednesday night.   ;)

Re: Krstic is being overrated
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2011, 01:07:48 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Considering that we already know these things, where does the overrated come in?

Who is "we"?  If you're talking about the people I cited -- i.e., "the number of fans who have said something along the lines of 'even if Shaq or JO are hurt, we'll be fine because we have Krstic'" -- then no, they don't understand these things.

Perhaps you could contribute more to this thread if you read more of what is being said about Krstic in the forums and on the front page, and less time on snarky responses?


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER... AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!

KP / Giannis / Turkuglu / Jrue / Curry
Sabonis / Brand / A. Thompson / Oladipo / Brunson
Jordan / Bowen

Redshirt:  Cooper Flagg

Re: Krstic is being overrated
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2011, 01:11:05 PM »

Offline Chris

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While I agree that some people have gone overboard, I do think Krstic is a very good player that fits the system well, and was underutilized in OKC (much like everyone not named Durant or Westbrook).  The guy is, and always has been a decent starting NBA center.

Now, that does not change the fact that if we don't get at least one (and probably both) Oneals back, we are in trouble.  But this guy was never a throw-in.  

I also think you are underrating his defense a bit.  He does not protect the rim like Perkins, but he is a very good low post defender, and has already shown the ability to defend the pick and roll very well.  I would say right now, he is an average defender, and as he learns the system, he might get slightly better (although he is pretty close to his peak).

You are right however about the defensive rebounding.  He is definitely below average there.  However, I think one of the real benefits of this trade is that it allows Pierce to spend more energy hitting the boards like he did in '08, plus, it gives us a strong rebounder (for a SF) behind him.

And lets not kid ourselves, Perk was not always dominant rebounder himself. So, while it is certainly a downgrade, I think it is negated a bit by the better perimeter rebounding.  

Re: Krstic is being overrated
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2011, 01:11:13 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Considering that we already know these things, where does the overrated come in?

Who is "we"?  If you're talking about the people I cited -- i.e., "the number of fans who have said something along the lines of 'even if Shaq or JO are hurt, we'll be fine because we have Krstic'" -- then no, they don't understand these things.

Perhaps you could contribute more to this thread if you read more of what is being said about Krstic in the forums and on the front page, and less time on snarky responses?

I do think we can win with Krstic in there. But it has nothing to do with Krstic, but with our other pieces. Everyone knows Krstic is a weak rebounder, but he's just one player.

Even with Perk we suffered games with lopsided rebounding against us.

Re: Krstic is being overrated
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2011, 01:14:02 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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I think as far as rebounding goes I think we are and will be a better rebounding team than we were last year with Perk. The problem in the finals was KG's rebounding. KG has improved drastically in this area compared to last. I also think picking up Troy Murphy who was one of the best defensive rebounders in the league last year improves us in this department as well.

I think it would be tough to win without Shaq or JO (or both) but I think that has more to do with Center depth rather than talent. I don't have the numbers but was Shaq really that great a defensive rebounder this year? And as far as one on one post defending I just don't see that being extremely critical when looking at possible opponents (except maybe LA)

Re: Krstic is being overrated
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2011, 01:15:30 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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I think as far as rebounding goes I think we are and will be a better rebounding team than we were last year with Perk. The problem in the finals was KG's rebounding. KG has improved drastically in this area compared to last. I also think picking up Troy Murphy who was one of the best defensive rebounders in the league last year improves us in this department as well.

I think it would be tough to win without Shaq or JO (or both) but I think that has more to do with Center depth rather than talent. I don't have the numbers but was Shaq really that great a defensive rebounder this year? And as far as one on one post defending I just don't see that being extremely critical when looking at possible opponents (except maybe LA)

Exactly, depth is the most important factor in all of this.

Re: Krstic is being overrated
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2011, 01:15:53 PM »

Offline ssspence

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I haven't seen too many posts where folks discount the importance of additional healthy bigs. There's no question the Cs will need 'em if they hope to win it all.

it IS however refreshing to see a 5 with soft hands and shooting ability in the line-up. Much as I loved Perk -- the catch, hesitation, dribble, foul (from a player who had 3 seconds to slide over and commit it) with missed lay-up, scowl, bricked FT, bricked FT, scowl, slap own hand, more scowl, thing was tired.

If we do get a healthy O'Neal or two back, isn't it refreshing to imagine a situational scenario on O at the close of a game where NK actually contributes? I can see him hitting a wide open game winning 16 footer -- or even just some free throws to ice one -- before the season is over.

He's a nice option, and more of one than he was given credit for at the time of the trade.

 
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Re: Krstic is being overrated
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2011, 01:16:50 PM »

Offline throwedoff

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yea Perk's 6 rebounds per game was SO much better ::)me personally is loving the was Kristic is playing

Re: Krstic is being overrated
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2011, 01:18:10 PM »

Offline Marcus13

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Agreed, people on this board are being farrr too optimistic about our big-man situation.  Reality is, the O'Neals can't stay healthy and Kristic can't defend.

Everybody is positive because we're on a 5-game winning streak which is great, but these mediocre teams with above average guards are getting to the hoop on us at-will, we've just been able to squeak by each of these teams.  Kristic and Murphy are NOT going to get it done.

Something in teh post needs to change drastically before the second round of the playoffs

Re: Krstic is being overrated
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2011, 01:21:24 PM »

Offline Eric_Suede

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First things first, let me say that Nenad Krstic's offense has been very good.  For a guy who hasn't learned the system yet, he's played very well.  I don't think anybody can criticize him much for what he's done on the offensive end of the floor, and that includes his offensive rebounding, which has been a very pleasant surprise.

However, I'm surprised by the number of fans who have said something along the lines of "even if Shaq or JO are hurt, we'll be fine because we have Krstic".  I think statements like that really overrate Krstic's game, and underrate the importance of defense and rebounding.

Krstic is a VERY weak defensive rebounder.  You know all the criticism that BBD has gotten about his rebounding?  Well, Krstic is quite a bit worse on that end.  He's grabbing 3.7 defensive rebounds per 36 minutes, an absolutely horrific number.  That's 10th among guys who have played for us this year, and is well behind Paul Pierce (5.0 DRB per 36 minutes).  It's only very slightly better than Delonte West and Marquis Daniels -- 3.5 and 3.4 DRB per 36, respectively -- and isn't far off from Rondo's 2.9 or Ray's 2.8.  That's right:  our starting center is closer to Ray Allen as a rebounder than he is to Paul Pierce (let alone KG or Perk).

It's true that Krstic is new here, but I wouldn't expect his defensive numbers to improve drastically; he's been a very poor defensive rebounder since the '08-'09 season, at least, and has really only had one decent half-season in his career in terms of rebounding.  In other words, it's a major weakness.

Why does this matter?  As I'm sure we all remember, failure to secure defensive rebounds was a big part of our loss in last year's Finals.  We are a middle of the road team in terms of rebounding, and replacing Perk with Krstic hurts tremendously in that area.  Additionally, relying too much on Krstic handcuffs Doc in terms of the lineups he can play; you can't effectively play Krstic at center with either BBD or Jeff Green at power forward, as both of those players are poor rebounders as well.

Similarly, Krstic's defense isn't great.  Again, some of this will improve with familiarity, and Krstic isn't terrible on the defensive end.  He's just not as good as Shaq, JO, or Perk defending guys 1-on-1, and he's not as good as JO or Perk defending the pick-and-roll or on help defense.  He may reach the level of "adequate" on defense, but it will never be a strength.  Part of the strength of our defense is that it allows perimeter players to release their man to our big men waiting in the paint.  Krstic just isn't as imposing down there as JO, Shaq, or Perk.

This isn't a thread to "bash" Krstic.  Like I said, I think he's been great on one end of the floor.  However, I do think it's very important that we have either Shaq or JO back; their presence is going to be a very important piece of our championship puzzle.  As Danny said in the Shaughnessy interview, "Now if Shaq and Jermaine [O'Neal] can't play we could be in trouble".  I agree with that sentiment, and don't want to see people disappointed if Krstic doesn't live up to their perhaps unrealistic expectations. 

I see where you're coming from. I personally just think it's unexpected and takes getting used to. When was the last time we had a Center that was capable of consistently giving solid offense. It's been quite a while. Not to dump on Perk but when was the last time he scored 17+? Just refreshing to see a "throw in" on a trade produce


Re: Krstic is being overrated
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2011, 01:22:52 PM »

Offline jdpapa3

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I agree with the main sentiment of this thread and the fact that we could be in serious trouble if Shaq or Jermaine can't provide decent minutes in the playoffs. People keep saying we would be in trouble vs Orlando(while I don't see it in this thread), but I'd be more worried about Chicago and Miami because of their awesome dribble penetration.

Nenad is pretty good at post defense, but I agree with you in that his weakness is in the help. He can sometimes get to the position to help out, but he just doesn't seem to alter shots like Perk/Shaq/JO did.

I think we can still win it with Nenad playing 20-25 as our backup center.

Re: Krstic is being overrated
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2011, 01:23:44 PM »

Offline clover

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Perk's averaged 5 more rebounds per 48 minutes this year.  Considering neither of them would be likely to see more than half that time in a game we're talking about 2.5 rebounds per game at the very most.  

Krstic also is 7th in the league, among centers, for turnovers per 48 minutes, whereas Perk is 81st.  (1.5 vs. 2.8)

Perk has 4 techs to Krstic's 0, though Krstic's played about 4x as many minutes.

Sure, there are things Perk is better at. But Perk's benefited from being better used in a better system and Doc and crew had really done all they could with him.  I think you'll see more from Krstic in this defensive system, for example, over time.