Danny: "Jeff Green could be a better defender than Perk Right Now and in future"

[CelticG1]

The rewriting of history since the trade is amazing.  It used to be almost unanimous that perk was unmatched in terms of one-on-one defense against Howard.  Now he is just another guy when it comes to Howard.  Where were all of these people before the trade.  My guess is that within a week, people will be comparing perk to ac Earl.

Vinnie is right in that a lot of people have seemingly changed their tune on Perk.

Perk is the best 1 v 1 post defender in the league. He only struggled with face up centers with decent mid range games. Perk eats up back to the basket post players the majority of the time.

He is the best in the league at covering D12 but I also saw him struggle with Bogut.

Perk is VERY good at what he does and you can't take that away from him.

I still like the trade though

Was Perk all of this this year? I think that's the question you need to ask. Even though I don'd agree with you in general anyway, obviously you can argue this stuff form the last couple years, but we are talking about  THIS year.

With Perk out for 3 more weeks with problems in his other knee I think there is no doubt that he will have lost at the very least some of his effectiveness.

And if he did/does lose some of his effectiveness this year I don't think it's as big of a loss as losing him when he was healthy.

[CelticG1]

The rewriting of history since the trade is amazing.  It used to be almost unanimous that perk was unmatched in terms of one-on-one defense against Howard.  Now he is just another guy when it comes to Howard.  Where were all of these people before the trade.  My guess is that within a week, people will be comparing perk to ac Earl.

I'm not sure I'd call it that way...there has always been a very dedicated, if small, group which maintained that Perk's only value in the NBA was because of players like Howard, but since there's only one Howard and 28 other guys, his value is pretty limited.  Especially if a series against Bogut, which is just as likely (last year, we might have thought) as a series against Orlando.

I've always loved his work ethic and appreciated his love for Boston green, but people loved him as much for that and his small contract as for his skills on the court.  With possibly diminishing skills and twice the contract, and now starting next to four all stars, I think people are coming to recognize he isn't as valuable as he used to be.

Yes I agree with this completely. There were plenty of threads in the last couple years discussing Perk's worth and it was probably some what split but I was definitely on the side of "he does well against one guy" camp.

Some people were talking about how him and Rondo were the building blocks of the future and that was just ridiculous

[droponov]

What?

The reason Perkins defense is so valuable against the likes of Howard is because he's able to slow him down without the need for doubles.

I didn't say they double teamed him. That was my point. The Ball pressure on the ball handlers when trying to make entry passes helps Perk. He's not out there fronting Howard in the post and denying the basketball--the perimeter defenders do the denying for him.

Yes having size and girth will help OKC, but if they don't have the same type of help defense in the post that we have, Perk will be in foul trouble a lot, which he typically is anyway.

I don't think there's a professional basketball team that doesn't make denying the entry pass to the post a priority. Teams like OKC (pre-trade) actually put a lot more effort in it - sometimes fronting the post player, sometimes bringing early help, before the catch, sometimes flashing defenders on the passing lane, etc. - than the Celtics, precisely because they're weaker defending once the catch is made and it's tougher for them to deny position to the post player.

Anyway, the numbers are from Perkins plays against Howard in the post, when Howard catches the ball and goes 1x1 vs. Perkins.

[CelticG1]

What?

The reason Perkins defense is so valuable against the likes of Howard is because he's able to slow him down without the need for doubles.

I didn't say they double teamed him. That was my point. The Ball pressure on the ball handlers when trying to make entry passes helps Perk. He's not out there fronting Howard in the post and denying the basketball--the perimeter defenders do the denying for him.

Yes having size and girth will help OKC, but if they don't have the same type of help defense in the post that we have, Perk will be in foul trouble a lot, which he typically is anyway.

I don't think there's a professional basketball team that doesn't make denying the entry pass to the post a priority. Teams like OKC (pre-trade) actually put a lot more effort in it - sometimes fronting the post player, sometimes bringing early help, before the catch, sometimes flashing defenders on the passing lane, etc. - than the Celtics, precisely because they're weaker defending once the catch is made and it's tougher for them to deny position to the post player.

Anyway, the numbers are from Perkins plays against Howard in the post, when Howard catches the ball and goes 1x1 vs. Perkins.

Howard is a terrible back to basket post player anyway. I would love to throw anyone on Howard and let him try and win the game himself.

[guava_wrench]

What?

The reason Perkins defense is so valuable against the likes of Howard is because he's able to slow him down without the need for doubles.

I didn't say they double teamed him. That was my point. The Ball pressure on the ball handlers when trying to make entry passes helps Perk. He's not out there fronting Howard in the post and denying the basketball--the perimeter defenders do the denying for him.

Yes having size and girth will help OKC, but if they don't have the same type of help defense in the post that we have, Perk will be in foul trouble a lot, which he typically is anyway.

I don't think there's a professional basketball team that doesn't make denying the entry pass to the post a priority. Teams like OKC (pre-trade) actually put a lot more effort in it - sometimes fronting the post player, sometimes bringing early help, before the catch, sometimes flashing defenders on the passing lane, etc. - than the Celtics, precisely because they're weaker defending once the catch is made and it's tougher for them to deny position to the post player.

Anyway, the numbers are from Perkins plays against Howard in the post, when Howard catches the ball and goes 1x1 vs. Perkins.

Howard is a terrible back to basket post player anyway. I would love to throw anyone on Howard and let him try and win the game himself.

Not this season. Howard has improved a lot. He put some sweet moves on Perk last time.

[droponov]

What?

The reason Perkins defense is so valuable against the likes of Howard is because he's able to slow him down without the need for doubles.

I didn't say they double teamed him. That was my point. The Ball pressure on the ball handlers when trying to make entry passes helps Perk. He's not out there fronting Howard in the post and denying the basketball--the perimeter defenders do the denying for him.

Yes having size and girth will help OKC, but if they don't have the same type of help defense in the post that we have, Perk will be in foul trouble a lot, which he typically is anyway.

I don't think there's a professional basketball team that doesn't make denying the entry pass to the post a priority. Teams like OKC (pre-trade) actually put a lot more effort in it - sometimes fronting the post player, sometimes bringing early help, before the catch, sometimes flashing defenders on the passing lane, etc. - than the Celtics, precisely because they're weaker defending once the catch is made and it's tougher for them to deny position to the post player.

Anyway, the numbers are from Perkins plays against Howard in the post, when Howard catches the ball and goes 1x1 vs. Perkins.

Howard is a terrible back to basket post player anyway. I would love to throw anyone on Howard and let him try and win the game himself.

He has done it multiple times. Why do you think Orlando has been one of the best teams in the NBA for the past few years?

[BudweiserCeltic]

To me Howard is the MVP of the league right now. Too bad we don't have enough historical data on how people defend Howard the way he has been playing this year.

[wahz]

What?

The reason Perkins defense is so valuable against the likes of Howard is because he's able to slow him down without the need for doubles.

I didn't say they double teamed him. That was my point. The Ball pressure on the ball handlers when trying to make entry passes helps Perk. He's not out there fronting Howard in the post and denying the basketball--the perimeter defenders do the denying for him.

Yes having size and girth will help OKC, but if they don't have the same type of help defense in the post that we have, Perk will be in foul trouble a lot, which he typically is anyway.

I don't think there's a professional basketball team that doesn't make denying the entry pass to the post a priority. Teams like OKC (pre-trade) actually put a lot more effort in it - sometimes fronting the post player, sometimes bringing early help, before the catch, sometimes flashing defenders on the passing lane, etc. - than the Celtics, precisely because they're weaker defending once the catch is made and it's tougher for them to deny position to the post player.

Anyway, the numbers are from Perkins plays against Howard in the post, when Howard catches the ball and goes 1x1 vs. Perkins.

Ok so Im so p---ed off about what I consider completely idiotic commentary from frequent well known posters here who have taken their, imho, ignorance to a whole new level on the perk trade, taking an absurdly anti stance, and baboozling and intimidating other posters with the fact that they are management here etc, Ive consoled myself knowing the trade was great and then I found this:

http://www.taringa.net/posts/deportes/1303433/_NBA_-Fotos-viejas-de-los-Celtics_-.html

Its awesome!! Go celtics!

[Assassin70]

The rewriting of history since the trade is amazing.  It used to be almost unanimous that perk was unmatched in terms of one-on-one defense against Howard.  Now he is just another guy when it comes to Howard.  Where were all of these people before the trade.

Quoted for the truth.

tp

[moiso]

I agree with Budweiserceltic that Howard is MVP of the league right now, so I don't see the big deal if he had 28 on Perk.  Maybe Perk isn't jumping as high as last year, but he was still rotating excellently and protecting the rim well.  His toughness was huge for us.

Green is more versatile, but he hasn't looked very good so far.  He is far more passive than Perk, and isn't physical whether he's guarding 3's or 4's.  I know I'll get bashed for saying this but compared to guys like Posey and TA, Green looks extremely soft.

[winsomme]

do people remember at the time of the trade Danny mentioned that he didn't think Jeff Green was going to be any better than Ryan Gomes...?

[BballTim]

I agree with Budweiserceltic that Howard is MVP of the league right now, so I don't see the big deal if he had 28 on Perk.  Maybe Perk isn't jumping as high as last year, but he was still rotating excellently and protecting the rim well.  His toughness was huge for us.

  I just checked the game log on the espn website. Howard scored 28 on the Celts that day in 45 minutes. He played 33 minutes against Perk and scored 15 points in that time. He played 12 minutes with Perk out of the game and scored 13 points in that time. Dwight averages almost 23 points per 36 minutes. So not only did Perk hold Dwight's scoring rate to about 40% of what it was with Perk on the bench but he held Dwight to almost 30% below his normal average.

[guava_wrench]

I agree with Budweiserceltic that Howard is MVP of the league right now, so I don't see the big deal if he had 28 on Perk.  Maybe Perk isn't jumping as high as last year, but he was still rotating excellently and protecting the rim well.  His toughness was huge for us.

  I just checked the game log on the espn website. Howard scored 28 on the Celts that day in 45 minutes. He played 33 minutes against Perk and scored 15 points in that time. He played 12 minutes with Perk out of the game and scored 13 points in that time. Dwight averages almost 23 points per 36 minutes. So not only did Perk hold Dwight's scoring rate to about 40% of what it was with Perk on the bench but he held Dwight to almost 30% below his normal average.

Good work on that post.

Perk is definitely the best counter to Dwight. The knee issues are more significant in pick and roll defense and defending penetration. Defending Dwight is all about position and being strong enough to deny him his favorite post moves.

Dwight managed to unleash some of his new post moves on Perk, but Perk is still the best at denying Dwight position. But Howard is just one player on one team.

[BudweiserCeltic]

How much stock are you going to put on a stat like "scoring rate". It's a fairly useless stat. Why wasn't he scoring? Missing shots? Opportunities elsewhere? Good defense? Selfish play?

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

SOME of you act like w/o KP DH will abuse us down low... while also saying it as if Shaq is garbage defensively against DH. Okay, if you are right... show me DH stats against KP and then against Shaq. I'm no stat girl but I have seen every game Shaq has played against DH, I can't remember any of those games where Shaq got abused by him. Not only did Shaq hold up good against him defensively, he also added OFFENSE! Again, just last season Clev. got Shaq b/c of that match-up... so obviously even and old Shaq can hang w/ Howard effectively! If you want to say KP is a better 1vs1 defender against DH (anyone), I would agree w/ you, seeing that Shaq is old as hell... but to insist that DH just dogs Shaq out is BS! KP is no longer here, get over it... let's get behind the guys who are! (BTW: I did not like the trade at all! I'm also waiting for our new guys to show it was a good move.) Let's go Celtics!!