Didn't realize how bad and worthless a Player Perk is until today

[droponov]

Celtics defensive efficiency:

Feb 27th - 97.3 (1 - league leaders)
http://tinyurl.com/62u23sd

Jan 24th (one day before Perkins plays his first game of the season) - 98.3 (2 - Chicago leads)
http://tinyurl.com/674tjpq

Jan 3rd (Garnett got injured in Detroit on the Dec 29th) - 96.7 (1 - league leaders)
http://tinyurl.com/4zu4gnl

[GoGreen9]

Bballtim, I don't need a quote from Doc about who or who isn't starting. The trade said it all.

They think Shaq/JO and Krstic combined can fill what Perkins gave you, and their not losing anything at the position with the move. Instead, you just gained major bench help while still getting production from Center.

And I believe their right.

  Haha. God forbid the coach's opinion get in the way of your proclaiming who the starting center is.

  Is that how trades generally work? That the only reason players are traded is because their teams were planning on replacing them in the starting lineup regardless? I must say that's a new way of looking at things.

  Oh, and I like how you jumped from telling me that I don't know how much half the teams in the league to telling me exactly what Doc and Danny were thinking with regards to the trade, but I guess I should expect that from someone who seems to know more about who are starting center will be than the coaching staff.

Thats not the point I'm making at all.  Not sure why your putting words in my mouth.  If you want my take I'll give it to you straight.  You don't have to be big and bad about it.  Its just a message board.  Your not on the mean streets of Connecticut.

Its not that hard for me to decipher what Ainge thought.  What do you think Ainge thought ?  Why did he make the trade ?

For me,  Shaq, JO, and Krstic can more than handle the Center position without Perkins.   Green and Krstic help out your bench.   The value of the whole combination is greater than having a Perkins on the team.   Especially considering his health, and the contract he turned down and now wants. Again, its the right move IMO.

Trades can work a lot of ways. This one involved alot of equations in my mind. A lot of factors.  It isn't just about whose starting or if Perk wants 10/per.  More to that than just those 2 things. 

Its about the entire roster, not just one player.  This entire roster is better right now than 3 days ago.

  I think that Danny made the trade for more than one reason. He thought that the expected improvement to our offense and to our bench would offset the loss of Perk's defense. He made it because he now has at least one center that's relatively healthy. He might not have been confident that Perk would be setback-free for the rest of the year. He might have thought that he was adding a piece for the future without weakening the team.

  But I don't think he made the trade because they were planning on benching Perk and starting Shaq if both were able to play. There's no evidence that was the case, and there's evidence to the contrary.

I think another reason why he made the trade was because he saw how well we played without Perkins. That must've been a huge reason that triggered the deal. That, and nobody else in the East being able to take advantage of the size we lost a couple days ago were all big reasons that factored into his decision. Obviously us not being able to pay him played a role, too.

[BballTim]

Again, for the most part we're saying the same thing.  The team looks to have improved a bit offensively to counter a small drop defensively.  But from the tone of your posts I can tell you consider this a bad thing, while when I look at the whole on-court impact it appears to be a good thing to me (with the usual caveats about health and chemistry that I hit in my blog post about this http://www.celticsblog.com/2011/2/25/2014694/the-celtics-are-better-today-for-this-year-than-they-were-yesterday ).

  I wasn't misunderstanding your numbers, I was putting them in a different perspective. Perk's impact looks small compared to KG's, but the difference between the first and 7th or 8th and 16th ranked defense is enough of an impact to make a player like Perk valuable. And, no, I don't necessarily consider it a bad thing, but I do consider defense to be more valuable than offense in the playoffs because it's generally more dependable. If we were gaining 2 points and losing 2 points I'd be very skeptical of calling it a wash. If we're losing 2 points and gaining 4 or 5 I'd be a little happier about this. I haven't really denounced the trade. I'm just saying that Perk's a valuable player.

[BballTim]

BballTim, actually we've been the #1 defense without Perk. No?

  I think that Chicago had been #1 for a while, I would guess at least a month.

  Not in points allowed, but in defensive efficiency.

  If you check 82games, which hasn't been updated since Jan 19th, Chicago was 2 points better than us (more or less, I don't think they use fractions). If you check ESPN we're slightly better than the Bulls now. Both the Celts and the Bulls are 2 points clear of the rest of the league so I don't think that the Bulls have had much of a dropoff in that time. If you think about what's happened, though, we knocked about 2 points off of our total in less than 30% of our games so we've been playing well better than anyone else to drag our year long average down by that amount. For example, if we'd been at 102 and we're now at 100 then we'd have been playing at around 95 over that time to get our total average to that level.

Remember, for the past month or so we've been playing with a depleted team that included injuries to Garnett too. But let's not take away from the Bulls, they've been playing good defense without Noah.

But, that the Bulls play better defense or not to us all told is irrelevant.

  I didn't say that it was really relevant, I just commented that I wouldn't expect to finish ahead of them without Perk.

[BballTim]

Celtics defensive efficiency:

Feb 27th - 97.3 (1 - league leaders)
http://tinyurl.com/62u23sd

Jan 24th (one day before Perkins plays his first game of the season) - 98.3 (2 - Chicago leads)
http://tinyurl.com/674tjpq

Jan 3rd (Garnett got injured in Detroit on the Dec 29th) - 96.7 (1 - league leaders)
http://tinyurl.com/4zu4gnl

  I'm not disputing these numbers at all. I would point out, however, that we'd have to be playing at just over 94 during the Perk games to drop by that amount. Relative to the rest of the league that's better than our defense was in 2008. And that's with Nate and Wafer getting decent floor time.

[jv2764]

I had to be in the car for four hours and got to listen to just about every caller on the SportHub talk about how Perk stinks, Perk meant nothing to the celtics, Perk can't score (Um, Celts don't need scoring from their center), etc.

The simple question is this -- where were all of the Perk haters prior to Thursday's trade?

I been there since Day 1.  I thought Boston fans overrated him tremendously.  Boston fans love him because he came cheap and was blue collar lunch pail guy.  Boston fans love "dirt dogs".  It takes a full year to come back from an ACL and now he has an MCL issue.  Put it this way do you still love Perk at 8 or 9 Mil a year?  Didnt think so.

Imagine your an OKC fan and your team trades 40% of its starting line-up and in return gets a 5'9 bench shooting guard and a 6'10 center coming off major knee reconstructive surgery and now has a sprained MCL and is unavailable for 3 weeks. Oh yeah to boot you give up a top 10 protected 1st round pick in 2012. Exactly! Brilliant move DA.

Way to go DA way to go.  Foresight man!

You are right, Danny totally swindled Sam Presti out in OKC. It is clear from his team that Presti has no clue what he is doing.  

Perk hurt and out and now Nate out for 4 to 6 weeks.  Yes Vinnie DA did swindle Presti.  I repeat how do you feel if youre an OKC fan now with two players you traded for out with bad knees.

[Fafnir]

I had to be in the car for four hours and got to listen to just about every caller on the SportHub talk about how Perk stinks, Perk meant nothing to the celtics, Perk can't score (Um, Celts don't need scoring from their center), etc.

The simple question is this -- where were all of the Perk haters prior to Thursday's trade?

I been there since Day 1.  I thought Boston fans overrated him tremendously.  Boston fans love him because he came cheap and was blue collar lunch pail guy.  Boston fans love "dirt dogs".  It takes a full year to come back from an ACL and now he has an MCL issue.  Put it this way do you still love Perk at 8 or 9 Mil a year?  Didnt think so.

Imagine your an OKC fan and your team trades 40% of its starting line-up and in return gets a 5'9 bench shooting guard and a 6'10 center coming off major knee reconstructive surgery and now has a sprained MCL and is unavailable for 3 weeks. Oh yeah to boot you give up a top 10 protected 1st round pick in 2012. Exactly! Brilliant move DA.

Way to go DA way to go.  Foresight man!

You are right, Danny totally swindled Sam Presti out in OKC. It is clear from his team that Presti has no clue what he is doing.  

Perk hurt and out and now Nate out for 4 to 6 weeks.  Yes Vinnie DA did swindle Presti.  I repeat how do you feel if youre an OKC fan now with two players you traded for out with bad knees.

Since when was Nate Robinson anything other than a piece of matching salary for OKC? They already has two PGs and 2 SGs ahead of him on the depth chart.

I don't think it should effect our evaluation of the trade at all, other than Nate was playing hurt for the C's. (which could explain his shooting struggles)

[jv2764]

I had to be in the car for four hours and got to listen to just about every caller on the SportHub talk about how Perk stinks, Perk meant nothing to the celtics, Perk can't score (Um, Celts don't need scoring from their center), etc.

The simple question is this -- where were all of the Perk haters prior to Thursday's trade?

I been there since Day 1.  I thought Boston fans overrated him tremendously.  Boston fans love him because he came cheap and was blue collar lunch pail guy.  Boston fans love "dirt dogs".  It takes a full year to come back from an ACL and now he has an MCL issue.  Put it this way do you still love Perk at 8 or 9 Mil a year?  Didnt think so.

Imagine your an OKC fan and your team trades 40% of its starting line-up and in return gets a 5'9 bench shooting guard and a 6'10 center coming off major knee reconstructive surgery and now has a sprained MCL and is unavailable for 3 weeks. Oh yeah to boot you give up a top 10 protected 1st round pick in 2012. Exactly! Brilliant move DA.

Way to go DA way to go.  Foresight man!

You are right, Danny totally swindled Sam Presti out in OKC. It is clear from his team that Presti has no clue what he is doing.  

Perk hurt and out and now Nate out for 4 to 6 weeks.  Yes Vinnie DA did swindle Presti.  I repeat how do you feel if youre an OKC fan now with two players you traded for out with bad knees.

Since when was Nate Robinson anything other than a piece of matching salary for OKC? They already has two PGs and 2 SGs ahead of him on the depth chart.

I don't think it should effect our evaluation of the trade at all, other than Nate was playing hurt for the C's. (which could explain his shooting struggles)

Just an absolute genius move by DA and yet we had people here critical of the  deal.  DA has has forgotten more hopps than people on here know.

[BballTim]

I had to be in the car for four hours and got to listen to just about every caller on the SportHub talk about how Perk stinks, Perk meant nothing to the celtics, Perk can't score (Um, Celts don't need scoring from their center), etc.

The simple question is this -- where were all of the Perk haters prior to Thursday's trade?

I been there since Day 1.  I thought Boston fans overrated him tremendously.  Boston fans love him because he came cheap and was blue collar lunch pail guy.  Boston fans love "dirt dogs".  It takes a full year to come back from an ACL and now he has an MCL issue.  Put it this way do you still love Perk at 8 or 9 Mil a year?  Didnt think so.

Imagine your an OKC fan and your team trades 40% of its starting line-up and in return gets a 5'9 bench shooting guard and a 6'10 center coming off major knee reconstructive surgery and now has a sprained MCL and is unavailable for 3 weeks. Oh yeah to boot you give up a top 10 protected 1st round pick in 2012. Exactly! Brilliant move DA.

Way to go DA way to go.  Foresight man!

You are right, Danny totally swindled Sam Presti out in OKC. It is clear from his team that Presti has no clue what he is doing.  

Perk hurt and out and now Nate out for 4 to 6 weeks.  Yes Vinnie DA did swindle Presti.  I repeat how do you feel if youre an OKC fan now with two players you traded for out with bad knees.

  Presti didn't make the deal to get Nate. He wanted Perk for the future and hopefully in the playoffs. Neither team got swindled, and both teams may benefit greatly from the trade.

[jv2764]

I had to be in the car for four hours and got to listen to just about every caller on the SportHub talk about how Perk stinks, Perk meant nothing to the celtics, Perk can't score (Um, Celts don't need scoring from their center), etc.

The simple question is this -- where were all of the Perk haters prior to Thursday's trade?

I been there since Day 1.  I thought Boston fans overrated him tremendously.  Boston fans love him because he came cheap and was blue collar lunch pail guy.  Boston fans love "dirt dogs".  It takes a full year to come back from an ACL and now he has an MCL issue.  Put it this way do you still love Perk at 8 or 9 Mil a year?  Didnt think so.

Imagine your an OKC fan and your team trades 40% of its starting line-up and in return gets a 5'9 bench shooting guard and a 6'10 center coming off major knee reconstructive surgery and now has a sprained MCL and is unavailable for 3 weeks. Oh yeah to boot you give up a top 10 protected 1st round pick in 2012. Exactly! Brilliant move DA.

Way to go DA way to go.  Foresight man!

You are right, Danny totally swindled Sam Presti out in OKC. It is clear from his team that Presti has no clue what he is doing.  

Perk hurt and out and now Nate out for 4 to 6 weeks.  Yes Vinnie DA did swindle Presti.  I repeat how do you feel if youre an OKC fan now with two players you traded for out with bad knees.

  Presti didn't make the deal to get Nate. He wanted Perk for the future and hopefully in the playoffs. Neither team got swindled, and both teams may benefit greatly from the trade.

Still a heist my friend anyway you look at it.  Perk wont be the same player he was prior to the injuries this year at all. 

[Chris]

  Presti didn't make the deal to get Nate. He wanted Perk for the future and hopefully in the playoffs. Neither team got swindled, and both teams may benefit greatly from the trade.

Well said.  This has the potential to be a classic case of a win-win trade.  

[droponov]

Perk wont be the same player he was prior to the injuries this year at all. 

How do you know that?

[Chris]

I had to be in the car for four hours and got to listen to just about every caller on the SportHub talk about how Perk stinks, Perk meant nothing to the celtics, Perk can't score (Um, Celts don't need scoring from their center), etc.

The simple question is this -- where were all of the Perk haters prior to Thursday's trade?

I been there since Day 1.  I thought Boston fans overrated him tremendously.  Boston fans love him because he came cheap and was blue collar lunch pail guy.  Boston fans love "dirt dogs".  It takes a full year to come back from an ACL and now he has an MCL issue.  Put it this way do you still love Perk at 8 or 9 Mil a year?  Didnt think so.

Imagine your an OKC fan and your team trades 40% of its starting line-up and in return gets a 5'9 bench shooting guard and a 6'10 center coming off major knee reconstructive surgery and now has a sprained MCL and is unavailable for 3 weeks. Oh yeah to boot you give up a top 10 protected 1st round pick in 2012. Exactly! Brilliant move DA.

Way to go DA way to go.  Foresight man!

You are right, Danny totally swindled Sam Presti out in OKC. It is clear from his team that Presti has no clue what he is doing.  

Perk hurt and out and now Nate out for 4 to 6 weeks.  Yes Vinnie DA did swindle Presti.  I repeat how do you feel if youre an OKC fan now with two players you traded for out with bad knees.

  Presti didn't make the deal to get Nate. He wanted Perk for the future and hopefully in the playoffs. Neither team got swindled, and both teams may benefit greatly from the trade.

Still a heist my friend anyway you look at it.  Perk wont be the same player he was prior to the injuries this year at all. 

If they go deep into the playoffs because of the interior presence they now have, then the value going back and forth doesn't matter, its a [dang] good trade.  

Presti did what it took to get the player they felt they needed.  I have to respect that.

Although Danny also does deserve credit for doing a heck of a job of negotiating to get so much value for Perk from a team desperate for him.

[jv2764]

We'll see how Perk plays with Ibaka by his side.  Seriously, I never seen a guy get so much credit in my life as Perk. 

[BballTim]

I had to be in the car for four hours and got to listen to just about every caller on the SportHub talk about how Perk stinks, Perk meant nothing to the celtics, Perk can't score (Um, Celts don't need scoring from their center), etc.

The simple question is this -- where were all of the Perk haters prior to Thursday's trade?

I been there since Day 1.  I thought Boston fans overrated him tremendously.  Boston fans love him because he came cheap and was blue collar lunch pail guy.  Boston fans love "dirt dogs".  It takes a full year to come back from an ACL and now he has an MCL issue.  Put it this way do you still love Perk at 8 or 9 Mil a year?  Didnt think so.

Imagine your an OKC fan and your team trades 40% of its starting line-up and in return gets a 5'9 bench shooting guard and a 6'10 center coming off major knee reconstructive surgery and now has a sprained MCL and is unavailable for 3 weeks. Oh yeah to boot you give up a top 10 protected 1st round pick in 2012. Exactly! Brilliant move DA.

Way to go DA way to go.  Foresight man!

You are right, Danny totally swindled Sam Presti out in OKC. It is clear from his team that Presti has no clue what he is doing.  

Perk hurt and out and now Nate out for 4 to 6 weeks.  Yes Vinnie DA did swindle Presti.  I repeat how do you feel if youre an OKC fan now with two players you traded for out with bad knees.

  Presti didn't make the deal to get Nate. He wanted Perk for the future and hopefully in the playoffs. Neither team got swindled, and both teams may benefit greatly from the trade.

Still a heist my friend anyway you look at it.  Perk wont be the same player he was prior to the injuries this year at all. 

  I think that OKC would be happy with Perk (this year) if he plays as well for then defensively in the playoffs as he was playing defensively for us this season after coming back from knee surgery.

  Also, even if Perk doesn't play another minute this year he's signed long term with OKC. If Green and Krstic leave this summer and Perk's playing for OKC in three years is it still a heist for Danny?