Author Topic: Jeff Green  (Read 34959 times)

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Re: Jeff Green
« Reply #90 on: February 26, 2011, 08:57:42 AM »

Offline droponov

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Kristic is invisible out there. At least you know when Semih is in the game.

The only way this deal makes any sense is if Green is able to contribute quickly.

Do you think Erden is remotely as good as Krstic? Why so?

Re: Jeff Green
« Reply #91 on: February 26, 2011, 06:26:34 PM »

Offline LB3533

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I think Jeff Green has much more room to improve on his game (with the help from Pierce and Ray) compared to Perk.

I think Perk is pretty much at his max, especially considering how he has suffered some injuries the last year plus.

I'm all for this trade.

Re: Jeff Green
« Reply #92 on: February 26, 2011, 06:57:57 PM »

Offline Silent Storm

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Reminds me a little of Shawn Kemp with his size and the way he attacks the rim.
You are no longer black, or brown, or yellow, or red! You are now GREEN, you are light GREEN, or dark GREEN!

Re: Jeff Green
« Reply #93 on: February 26, 2011, 07:17:41 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Reminds me a little of Shawn Kemp with his size and the way he attacks the rim.

  Pre-lockout Shawn Kemp I hope.

Re: Jeff Green
« Reply #94 on: February 26, 2011, 07:18:44 PM »

Offline Tradetime

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Kristic is invisible out there. At least you know when Semih is in the game.

The only way this deal makes any sense is if Green is able to contribute quickly.

Do you think Erden is remotely as good as Krstic? Why so?

New Jersey was VERY high on this guy (Krstic) when Kidd was still hanging out in the swamp. He was a guy that they considered to be a part of their future. Then he went to play overseas for a few years and the team lost interest.  I think he will fit in here just fine, as Rondo is easily as good if not better a distributor of the ball as Kidd was in his prime.

Re: Jeff Green
« Reply #95 on: February 26, 2011, 07:54:34 PM »

Offline droponov

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Kristic is invisible out there. At least you know when Semih is in the game.

The only way this deal makes any sense is if Green is able to contribute quickly.

Do you think Erden is remotely as good as Krstic? Why so?

New Jersey was VERY high on this guy (Krstic) when Kidd was still hanging out in the swamp. He was a guy that they considered to be a part of their future. Then he went to play overseas for a few years and the team lost interest.  I think he will fit in here just fine, as Rondo is easily as good if not better a distributor of the ball as Kidd was in his prime.

Well, Krstic was on his way to become an All-Star in New Jersey. Averaging 16/7/2 with good scoring efficiency in his 3rd year as a 22 years old. Pretty good athleticism.

But then he had a very serious knee injury, took him more than 1 year to come back and he was never the same since then. They eventually didn't pick up his QO and he went back to Europe. He recovered to the level of player he is now and OKC eventually signed him. But he won't be the same player he was in New Jersey, he lost tons of mobility. What he can do though still makes him a fairly superior player to Erden. Similar rebounder, but better offensively and defensively.

Re: Jeff Green
« Reply #96 on: February 26, 2011, 08:07:57 PM »

Offline barefacedmonk

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Quote
Rivers spent hours watching video of Green in Oklahoma City. Two words  -- very impressed. Rivers knew Green was versatile, but didn't realize to what extent until he spent about 10 hours of watching him on video.

In addition to backing up Pierce, Green will also get a few minutes filling in for Kevin Garnett at power forward.

"He can handle the ball more than you would have seen our 4s (power forwards) handle it," Rivers said. "We'll let him handle the ball at the 3 (small forward) and let him run the show at times. He's going to help us a lot."
Link
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Re: Jeff Green
« Reply #97 on: February 26, 2011, 09:18:20 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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Also:

Krstic describes how in Oklahoma the offense was based on Isolation for Durant. Him and Green were basically used to just space the floor while KD went one-on-one. Nenad is excited to be back in an offense that is based on ball movement and sharing the rock.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShZGMG41jKc


I'm excited about what Doc see's in Jeff Green. In OKC he was used as a PF who stretched the floor and could use his speed against opponants. Rivers will use him that way also. But with The Celtics he expects to let him do things he'd never see in OKC. Doc is going to let jeff handle the ball more often and even run a little offense.

I see Jeff's transformation as being similar to Michael Beasley in Minny. On the Heat he was used a a power forward, but now that T-Wolves are letting him play the 3... it's pretty clear what he's capable of.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1oaAkmihz4

Re: Jeff Green
« Reply #98 on: February 26, 2011, 09:21:56 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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I like the videos, TP. But this part made me shake my head, do people actually think Beasely is playing well!?

but now that T-Wolves are letting him play the 3... it's pretty clear what he's capable of.  
Being an inefficient ball stopper who doesn't guard anyone, making it nearly impossible to run an offense while he's on the floor?  :o

I have higher hopes for Jeff Green.

Re: Jeff Green
« Reply #99 on: February 26, 2011, 09:29:29 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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I like the videos, TP. But this part made me shake my head, do people actually think Beasely is playing well!?

but now that T-Wolves are letting him play the 3... it's pretty clear what he's capable of.  
Being an inefficient ball stopper who doesn't guard anyone, making it nearly impossible to run an offense while he's on the floor?  :o

I have higher hopes for Jeff Green.

I was comparing him offensively, how he looked confused and lost in Miami but now seems to understand what kind of player he is.

And I don't think he's that inefficient. Not everyone can play for the Celtics where there's multiple All-Stars and no one see's double teams. .458 and .370 is pretty [dang] good for a team that shoots .436 as a team. Ball stopper yes, but who else is going to generate offense?  Darko? Luke Ridnour?

Cleveland is horrible but The Timberwolves might piece for piece the worst team in the league.

Re: Jeff Green
« Reply #100 on: February 26, 2011, 09:34:19 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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I like the videos, TP. But this part made me shake my head, do people actually think Beasely is playing well!?

but now that T-Wolves are letting him play the 3... it's pretty clear what he's capable of.  
Being an inefficient ball stopper who doesn't guard anyone, making it nearly impossible to run an offense while he's on the floor?  :o

I have higher hopes for Jeff Green.

I was comparing him offensively, how he looked confused and lost in Miami but now seems to understand what kind of player he is.

And I don't think he's that inefficient. Not everyone can play for the Celtics where there's multiple All-Stars and no one see's double teams. .458 and .370 is pretty [dang] good for a team that shoots .436 as a team. Ball stopper yes, but who else is going to generate offense?  Darko? Luke Ridnour?

Cleveland is horrible but The Timberwolves might piece for piece the worst team in the league.
Having a TS% of .515 and eFG% of .48 isn't pretty good,  it is well below league average.

Combine that with the rest of the flaws in his game....

Re: Jeff Green
« Reply #101 on: February 26, 2011, 09:58:37 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Odom should not be a bad match up for Green...anyway, he was just bad in that series.
He was bad in that series, but as Bud points out so was Kevin Durant (by his standards) But its hard for me to kill a player who's playing better players (Gasol/Odom are both better) out of position during his first taste of the playoffs.

Fair enough, but again Odom should not be a bad matchup for Green...

I also don't like reports that OKC fans/analysts aren't too upset to see him go...
Odom didn't have a good series against the Thunder though.

7.8 PPG, 6.38 RPG and he had serious foul trouble during three of those games. He also only got to the line 7 times during the series and shot 41% FG% and had a TS% of .460

but the thing that is going to make trading for Green worth it is primarily his offensive contribution (he is by no means a defensive stopper). And that is where he fell off in the Laker series last year.

whereas Perk's contribution was manning the back line of our defense. We took a big hit there in losing Perk. The question is whether Green can up the offensive element of our game to counteract that loss.

plus, haven't you heard the one benefit Doc said about getting Green? Bringing back small ball. So don't be surprised to see Green at PF a lot for us.

look, I'm in shock right now. Our front court defense was one of our strengths and now it is not. Even if Shaq and JO come back, we've never made a playoff run with them. So, this is not sitting well with me right now.

I'm looking for reasons to be excited about this deal and Green is really the only hope and what I saw from Green in the playoffs last year was not good. Add to that a very underwhelming season this year and I am very concerned...

  Why not wait a few games and see how he does? The guy he's replacing (Quis) could barely get into games last year in the playoffs.

It's pretty clear he is letting his emotions getting in the way of evaluating the player, because one of all of our favorites was traded.

because clearly Sam Presti is a terrible evaluator of talent...

  Again, you should let them play a few games and see what happens. I'm somewhat reminded of all of your posts about how Danny screwed up last year by not signing Leon, who was going to be a big contributor to the Cavs in the playoffs because he'd be fully recovered by then.

I believe I was wanting him on the Cs not worried about his contributions to CLE...wouldn't have minded having him in game 6 and 7 actually considering controlling the glass was the main reason we lost game 7....and hey look who might be walking through that door again, Ricky P...

but that's all really beside the point. I am open to this trade working and will be hopefully watching tonight. I'm just not psyched about the trade off of interior defense for potential offensive upgrade...

  It's not just an offensive upgrade. With the roster we had Von Wafer would likely have spent a decent amount of time covering LeBron and Wade in the playoffs. That's defense I can live without.

Re: Jeff Green
« Reply #102 on: February 26, 2011, 10:27:57 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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I like the videos, TP. But this part made me shake my head, do people actually think Beasely is playing well!?

but now that T-Wolves are letting him play the 3... it's pretty clear what he's capable of.  
Being an inefficient ball stopper who doesn't guard anyone, making it nearly impossible to run an offense while he's on the floor?  :o

I have higher hopes for Jeff Green.

I was comparing him offensively, how he looked confused and lost in Miami but now seems to understand what kind of player he is.

And I don't think he's that inefficient. Not everyone can play for the Celtics where there's multiple All-Stars and no one see's double teams. .458 and .370 is pretty [dang] good for a team that shoots .436 as a team. Ball stopper yes, but who else is going to generate offense?  Darko? Luke Ridnour?

Cleveland is horrible but The Timberwolves might piece for piece the worst team in the league.
Having a TS% of .515 and eFG% of .48 isn't pretty good,  it is well below league average.

Combine that with the rest of the flaws in his game....

You can add the TS into the barrage of sabremetrics that bore me to tears, but with that said, Beasley isn't passing the eyeball test in Minny, either, so it's time to begin contemplating bust status for him.

I swear, though, that Rambis stole his system from my old junior high coach so I am still curious how Beasley would fare as a major option in a real professional offense.

Just not enough to want to see him in Green anymore.

Getting back to the trade, it is going to be interesting to see Green, and to a lesser extent the man known as the Combover, in a real ball movement offense instead of that two-man game.

Interestingly, my pals in Oklahoma, who derisively called me "the only person on the planet" who likes Boston's end of the deal, aren't as sure of themselves today after their docs ruled Perk's good knee worse than advertised. Out at least until mid-March.

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Re: Jeff Green
« Reply #103 on: February 27, 2011, 02:21:04 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Seriously the majority of this forum is gonzo right now.

Last year we finished with the same record as OKC... this year we have only won 6 games more.  And yet... the thunder trade their 3rd best player for our 5th-7th best player and everyone has a collective spasm.

Kinda like when Posey left and everyone was convinced he was the 4th most important player on our 08 title team.  Or when we let an injured Powe walk and everyone said Danny Ainge was heartless.  We'll survive.  Perk's a limited skill big man who has had 7+ years to learn the Celtics system and fit into a very specific role.   Everyone needs to be reminded that the reason this team wins is because of Kevin Garnett... then Pierce, Rondo and Ray.  Perk was a role player.  He's not that skilled, not that athletic.  He's never averaged double digit rebounds... and because he had some success limiting Dwight a few times and fit in well in KG's defense, people consider him a superstar defender now. 

Danny Ainge was smart enough to realize how inflated Perk's stock was.  If you're a recognizable cog on a championship team, your stock will rise above value.  It's just the way it works.  Luk Longley made 30 million by some sucker team who fooled themselves into thinking he was an important part of the Bulls title teams.   Ainge is aware of this.  He tried to shop Perk for a top pick a couple years ago, but nobody would bite. 

I tried to find the thread (might not have been on this forum), but I think it was when the Celtics were looking to move Ray Allen's expiring contract.  One of the many ideas I thought of was moving Ray's expiring contract to the Clippers for Baron Davis and Chris Kaman... rationalizing that the Clippers were desperate to dump Baron's horrible contract and theoretically would part with Kaman to do it.  I suggested that maybe the Clippers would would buy out Ray in that scenario and he could rejoin it, but I then came up with a "way out of left field" follow-up... in that the Celtics could then try to sucker the Thunder in trading Jeff Green for Perk... rationalizing that Jeff Green was a super talented SF who needed out of Durant's shadow... and perhaps the Thunder would downgrade talent in order to fill their DESPERATE need for a legit big man (Perk).  Nutty trade scenario would have left us with PG - ROndo, SG - Pierce, SF - JEff Green, - PF - Garnett and C - Kaman with Baron Davis as a super over-paid 6th man.

Sure that was a nutty trade idea, but my reaction to the trade last week was "Wow... my logic was sound on the Green for Perk thing"...  OKC gave up their 3rd most talented player to fill a desperate need.    I don't believe Boston has that desperate need (survived fine without him this year because of our big man additions).  We can plug the Perk hole in a number of ways... taking advantage of OKC's desperate situation was a brilliant move by Ainge and eventually people will realize this.   It's just a shame that Ainge has been unsuccessful in suckering a team into taking Glen Davis and his similarly overly-inflated stock.
 
Big note:  I do agree that we would have won the title last year had Perk played game 7.  However... that's mainly because we had no legit big man other than Perk.  We got killed on the boards.  This year, Ainge over-compensated by signing both O'Neals... and it appears he's going to bring in Powe and maybe Murphy as well.   Put Shaq in game 7 and we would have won it too.  Put healthy Jermaine in game 7 and we would have won it too.  Put Murphy in game 7 (the guy can board) and we would have won it too.   We had a desperate need for a big man in game 7 that we don't have today.  I see that need filled now... so I am fully on board of robbing the Thunder of a talented player who didn't fit in with their roster. 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 02:27:43 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Jeff Green
« Reply #104 on: February 27, 2011, 02:42:43 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Let me ask a hypothetical question.

What if the Cavs had landed the #1 pick and took LeBron.. but then also managed to bring in the 3rd pick and took Melo (too talented not to)...

Then lets say they realized "crap... we can't play Bron at SG and we can't play Melo at SG... they are both SFs... lets just stick Melo at PF"

Does Melo succeed?