Danny Deserves the Benefit of the Doubt

[GreenFaith1819]

Wow - I'm away for a few days, and Danny decides to blow stuff up .

First off - I still trust Danny.

The Celtics goal of Banner 18 still stands - this June, against hopefully the Lakers (IF - and this is a BIG if, now - they can get past Ibaka and Perk in OKC).

As for Boston? I was in shock when these moves first went down. I even ran into a Laker fan (yes they still run amok here in Va, unfortunately) at the gas station, and she couldn't believe it either.

My words to her? Boston will still meet LA in June of this year - provided they can get past OKC.

At least we have maybe our best option now for a backup to Paul. I like Jeff Green, and he will cause matchup issues for our opponents. He can play the 3 and 4.

And he's still young, as is Nenad. Nenad will fit in Green. Plus, we'll get Shaq and JO back here, soon.

I'm sure over the next few days or so, the roster will fill out.

Gotta have Faith in these times for the Celtics. I'll miss Perk and Nate, but I really don't think Danny would shut it down like this if he didn't have a firm plan.

[CoachBo]

Trammel said it was a horrible deal. They recognize that they got damaged goods with a limited skillset. Not sure they're aware of Perkins' inflated value of his contract worth, though.

I'm not really going to get into a debate about sabremetrics. They're silly and they can't tell me a thing about how well Green helps provide rest to Pierce and Garnett, which is the primary purpose in the deal.

Sabremetrics are useless.

[Kane3387]

Love Perk but he is not the best player in this trade.

I disagree.  Perk has proven himself as a starter on a championship team.  Green might put up better numbers, but Perk was a perfect cog in our machine.  Also, if you knock his rebounding, I feel bad for when you see Krstic.

Also, I think you're vastly overrating Green.  He's a decent player, but he can't "defend anybody in the NBA".  He's a pretty good defender at SF, and a poor one at PF.  He's nowhere near as good as Lamar Odom.  Rather, he's a good but not great player.

I think Perk is pretty clearly the most important player here, which is why OKC gave up two players, a potential lottery pick, and took on salary for him.

Agree with you on all accounts with this one Roy.  Normally I would never question Danny, but we lost our starting center and a solid backup big when bigs aren't the easiest things to get in this league.

Well, the Celtics showed that they can play without Perkins just fine, if not better. If the C's sign Murphy, that's instantly an upgrade over Erden.

Dude watch... Krstic is honestly an upgrade over Semih. He will hit that 15 footer and his offensive game is more polished. He will actually play in the playoffs and not be overwhelmed in the moment. He is solid for 8-10 minutes a game and should benefit playing on such an unselfish team. He will get so many open looks he will think he is at shooting practice.

[Kane3387]

People over here have a tendency to go to pieces whenever Danny moves one of his beloved draft picks.

You should have seen this place the night Danny traded for Ray Allen - or Kevin Garnett. I think we've seen pretty clearly by now exactly what that emotion was - hysteria.

Dwyer's article on Green is just way out in left field. There isn't a shred of that analysis I agree with.

Funny, I hated the Ray Allen trade until the KG trade went down. Then I got it. I thought Yi was going to be a stud. What a joke.  Now we've come full circle, getting back the two major components from the Ray Allen trade: Delonte West and the number 5 pick (Green). And Ray is playing better than ever.

Basically traded Wally and Perk for Ray Allen and a Championship lol. I know not really but it is funny to think about.

[soap07]

"They're silly and they can't tell me a thing about how well Green helps provide rest to Pierce and Garnett, which is the primary purpose in the deal."

Um, yes, they actually can. You just don't like what they say. To call them silly is a bit ignorant.

[SCBirdman]

I am genuinely shocked that multiple fans think that Shaq's defense is as good as Perk's.  Truly flabbergasted.  I understand liking Shaq better on the offensive end, but on defense, the two simply aren't close.

Roy, I agree, but I do think if...and I know it is a big if JO is healthy, his D is comparable to Perk.

[CoachBo]

Now you're reaching. They have nothing whatsoever to accurately measure what Green was brought here to do. Which one's going to tell me directly how much better Pierce and Garnett's playoff performance is based on the rest they received from Green?

Answer: None. Just the eyes of the people who understand the game.

Use them as your bible. I don't care. I use my eyes and my experience in the game. I don't need a meaningless number.

[Onslaught]

I am genuinely shocked that multiple fans think that Shaq's defense is as good as Perk's.  Truly flabbergasted.  I understand liking Shaq better on the offensive end, but on defense, the two simply aren't close.

I agree. Shaq isn't even near as good at Perk on the defensive end. It's not even close.

I also thing people thing WAY TOO MUCH of what Green can do.

He's not better then Perk.

[Kane3387]

Perk looked a lot better than I expected when he came back and the past few games the team had hit a gear defensively that was good enough to win a title.

However, the Daniels loss was HUGE because the road to the title likely goes through Miami and if you have PP and Ray worrying about defending, your offense is lacking in a big way.  Plus the bench has been horrible lately.  

If Daniels didn't return, I thought it would be very difficult for the C's to win it all, even with the best record.  

Question is whether they'd have been better off waiting for a buyout guy to replace Quis or doing what they did.  

I don't at all like losing Perk.  But you have to look long term especially if Perk wasn't resigning here.  With Green, a mid level 1st rounder (Clips) and a pick at the top of the 2nd round (Cavs) those are 3 key components for keeping this team relevant.

Also no one is considering the possibility that this just became an AWESOME offensive team that can still defend.

Bottom line I'm not thrilled about it.  Hate giving up Perk who was an important guy defensively.  Right now this is a lousy rebounding team.  But I can see how economics and long range thinking may have impacted this and lets see who Danny picks up next week.

"Also no one is considering the possibility that this just became an AWESOME offensive team that can still defend."

I did. Can't wait to see him at the 4 playing with the Big 4. I bet you never in his basketball life has he played on a team where he was the fifth best player on his team on the court. Not many other teams can put five guys on the floor where their fifth player is better than Jeff Green. It's why Shaq, BBD, Nate, and even Perk played so much better with the starters.

[mikemj]

Perk looked a lot better than I expected when he came back and the past few games the team had hit a gear defensively that was good enough to win a title.

I felt this way initially, but then the more I saw him, even before he strained his left knee, the more I felt he was not close to being full strength. He looked really small versus the Lakers when we played them on our court. Bynum and Gasol (and even Odom) were going over him with ease on the boards.  Given the long period to recover and get full strength on an ACL surgery (right, Tony?) I just did not feel that Perk was going to be ready in time to be 100% against the Lakers.  His latest injury made a full recovery even less likely.

The fact that Danny made this trade makes me think the injury concerns over Perk were significant, both for this year and going forward. Besides the knees, remember he has also had recurring shoulder issues in the past. The Celtics have enough other question marks due to age and injury that Danny probably thought they needed more bodies they could rely on.

Last year just as the playoffs started the Celtics got the healthiest they were going to get. They can play the game of resting guys again, but it probably helps to not have quite so many question marks.

So I think I see the logic health-wise. Not quite sold on the specifics of Green and Krstic being the answer basketball-wise, we'll see.

[Chief]

Perk has one great value. He's great at defending Dwight Howard. But that was not worth the money he is going to demand this summer. There are 10+ teams in the league, right now, that have overpaid centers. Danny was not going to make the same mistake. Perk is a 7 million a year player that will get 10-12. He'll soon join this list of overpaids:

Pryzbilla
Chandler
Haywood
Biedrins
Kaman
Curry
Gadzuric
Okafor
Mohammed
Dalembert
Okur

[Kane3387]

Trammel said it was a horrible deal. They recognize that they got damaged goods with a limited skillset. Not sure they're aware of Perkins' inflated value of his contract worth, though.

I'm not really going to get into a debate about sabremetrics. They're silly and they can't tell me a thing about how well Green helps provide rest to Pierce and Garnett, which is the primary purpose in the deal.

Sabremetrics are useless.

Thanks CoachBo!

Granted I talked to Barry about Perk before the injury, but he loves Green. Wish I could have heard him go off.

[cdif911]

In Danny I trust

[soap07]

"Now you're reaching. They have nothing whatsoever to accurately measure what Green was brought here to do. Which one's going to tell me directly how much better Pierce and Garnett's playoff performance is based on the rest they received from Green?

Answer: None. Just the eyes of the people who understand the game.

Use them as your bible. I don't care. I use my eyes and my experience in the game. I don't need a meaningless number."


This is almost hilarious. But actually, please, I'd love to know with your enlightened eyes what it is that he was brought here to do. Is he not supposed to defense? Because there is no evidence in his NBA career that he ever has. Was he brought into rebound? Because he's been a poor one his whole career. Or am I reading too much into these new-fangled "stat'-thingys?

Was he brought into score at an inefficient rate? For example, does your experience in the game (and your eyes) tell you that it takes Green 13 shots to score 15 points this year?

What is it that you see that I am not gifted enough to see?

[rondohondo]

The original trade in 2007

    Bos sends: Wally, West, Green

Sea/okc sends: Ray Allen, BBD


2011

the C's have Ray Allen,BBD West and Green on the roster

so the trade ends up being :

Bos sends: Perk(with a reconstructed knee), Nate and Wally
Bos gets : Ray Allen, BBD, Jeff Green, Delonte , Kristic, and a possible 2012 lottery pick( 11-15)

yea , I would give Danny the benefit of the doubt