Red Sox 2011

[PosImpos]

It's an easy excuse for sure.  And that's a fact discussion regardless of your religious beliefs -- or lack thereof.

If your best is not good enough, you gotta work harder. Just ask Kevin Garnett.

To be fair, the way the Rays came back last night seemed pre-ordained.


#teamofdestiny

[Roy H.]

This team that seemed to have so much promise for the future just a couple months ago now looks like it could be mired in Wild Cardish mediocrity for a while.  How and when is the starting pitching going to get better?  The bullpen?

I don't see this team's future as mediocre at all.  The team got hit by a string of injuries (which, not surprisingly, is what led to the Braves' collapse, as well).  Losing Youk and Buchholz killed the team, and then Lester and Bard went into terrible slumps.

So, how does the pitching get better?  By having Lester pitch better (as his track record says he will) and by having Buchholz healthy.  Getting any sort of improvement at all from Lackey (he was historically bad) also improves the pitching staff.  Bard will definitely improve over what he showed in September; he was lights out for most of the year. 

I don't think things are hopeless for the Sox at all.  This month royally sucked, but I see them competing for the division crown for the foreseeable future.

Lester getting better does not address the gaping holes we have at 4th and 5th starter. Even if Lackey goes back to being his old mediocre-to-average self, who do we start at the 5 slot? Doubront? Two-and-a-half inning Bedard?

We'll see how Lackey, Dice-K, and Bedard do next year.  Fifth starters are generally pretty available.  Heck, we had one on our roster in Kevin Millwood, before letting him go.  The Yankees got good quality out of Colon and Garcia, both picked up off the scrap heap.  There's a solution out there in free agency, I have no doubt; there's no need for hand-wringing at this point, if the 5th starter is the largest concern.

[Cman]

I'm actually not that sad about the Red Sox collapse.

And yes, I'm a Red Sox fan.

Now the Red Sox are what they've always been - losers who come close, but lose. Somehow I feel more comfortable, like we've returned to our roots.

The pink hat brigade/bandwagon fans of the past decade won't understand, but I don't care.  They'll likely be changing allegiances some time soon anyway.

[kozlodoev]

We'll see how Lackey, Dice-K, and Bedard do next year.  Fifth starters are generally pretty available.  Heck, we had one on our roster in Kevin Millwood, before letting him go.  The Yankees got good quality out of Colon and Garcia, both picked up off the scrap heap.  There's a solution out there in free agency, I have no doubt; there's no need for hand-wringing at this point, if the 5th starter is the largest concern.

I didn't realize Dice-K was under contract -- my understanding was he expires this year. I also hear Millwood has been pretty good after we got rid of him.

Also, have in mind that just because Lackey is so average, any pitcher you'll want to get is probably in reality a fourth starter.

[CDawg834]

I don't mean to open up a hugh can of worms with this comment, but I am extremely disappointed in Adrian Gonzalez's comment that the loss was "God's plan."

I personally am not religious; I understand that Gonzalez is deeply devout, and he's entitled to his opinion.  But am I wrong in thinking that his comment speaks to the complete lack of accountability in that locker room?  I think his comment is a total cop-out and takes the blame off the players, which is absurd.

First it was injuries, then scheduling quirks.  Oh, now it's God's fault they lost!  ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

I don't mean to get into a religious discussion online with strangers because they never end well.  But I'll just say what I personally believe to be true.  I have that mindset a lot, especially when it comes to my life.  Just so you know, I'm a Christian.

I can try my best in whatever I attempt to do.  I'm in graduate school right now and I'm working as hard as I can to be able to get a degree.  But if I put in all the effort I could and it doesn't happen, then I'll tell myself that this wasn't God's plan for me.  It's how I was able to get over the Celtics' playoff exits in the years prior.  I used to get so down but then of course, I'd remind myself it's only a game and God simply didn't intend them to compete any further even though they tried.

Hope that makes sense.  If not or you don't agree with it, that's totally fine!

I understand completely, and if looked at in a vacuum, his comment wouldn't bother me in the slightest.  But if you pile it on to the attitude of this team over the past month, the excuse making, the lack of urgency, questionable decision making, errors, etc., it really got to me.  There's too many guys in that locker room who seem to have an "Oh well" attitude, and to me, that's unacceptable.

[Employee8]

I don't mean to open up a hugh can of worms with this comment, but I am extremely disappointed in Adrian Gonzalez's comment that the loss was "God's plan."

I personally am not religious; I understand that Gonzalez is deeply devout, and he's entitled to his opinion.  But am I wrong in thinking that his comment speaks to the complete lack of accountability in that locker room?  I think his comment is a total cop-out and takes the blame off the players, which is absurd.

First it was injuries, then scheduling quirks.  Oh, now it's God's fault they lost!  ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

I don't mean to get into a religious discussion online with strangers because they never end well.  But I'll just say what I personally believe to be true.  I have that mindset a lot, especially when it comes to my life.  Just so you know, I'm a Christian.

I can try my best in whatever I attempt to do.  I'm in graduate school right now and I'm working as hard as I can to be able to get a degree.  But if I put in all the effort I could and it doesn't happen, then I'll tell myself that this wasn't God's plan for me.  It's how I was able to get over the Celtics' playoff exits in the years prior.  I used to get so down but then of course, I'd remind myself it's only a game and God simply didn't intend them to compete any further even though they tried.

Hope that makes sense.  If not or you don't agree with it, that's totally fine!

I understand completely, and if looked at in a vacuum, his comment wouldn't bother me in the slightest.  But if you pile it on to the attitude of this team over the past month, the excuse making, the lack of urgency, questionable decision making, errors, etc., it really got to me.  There's too many guys in that locker room who seem to have an "Oh well" attitude, and to me, that's unacceptable.

Yeah I agree.  They definitely looked like they could care less about winning it all.  Truth be told, they wouldn't have gotten very far in the playoffs anyway with our pitching in shambles.  If we had won, it would've been Lackey against the Rays today for the wild card.  Hah.

[CDawg834]

And to top it all off, Wakefield has announced he definitely wants to return, and even made a comment that the fans deserve to see him chase the record for most wins by a Sox pitcher.

So now we deserve to see him go 7-19 with a 5.75 ERA next year, but hey he got the Red Sox all time wins record!  Woo hoo!!!  I'm sorry, but he's been atrocious for the past 3 months, and should not get a pass just because he's Tim Wakefield.

If Theo has any sense, he'll sit Wake down and tell him that he's not in the team plans for 2012, and that they would completely understand if he wishes to try to continue his career elsewhere.

**Just to add a little statistical evidence, here's Wake's numbers since the 2011 All-Star Break:

12 starts, 2-5, ERA 5.55, WHIP 1.45

[Chris]

And to top it all off, Wakefield has announced he definitely wants to return, and even made a comment that the fans deserve to see him chase the record for most wins by a Sox pitcher.

So now we deserve to see him go 7-19 with a 5.75 ERA next year, but hey he got the Red Sox all time wins record!  Woo hoo!!!  I'm sorry, but he's been atrocious for the past 3 months, and should not get a pass just because he's Tim Wakefield.

If Theo has any sense, he'll sit Wake down and tell him that he's not in the team plans for 2012, and that they would completely understand if he wishes to try to continue his career elsewhere.

But to be fair, he should not have started more than 5-10 games tops this past year.  He came in as the 6 or 7th starter.  Generally you expect guys like that to start a handful of games at most.  You can't count on losing your #5 starter for the season, your number 3 starter for 3/4 of the season, and a couple other guys for a handful of starts as well.

I have no problem with Wake coming back as an insurance policy again, because frankly, you just don't find quality starters willing to sign on for a gig like that.

[Eja117]

I don't get how a guy like Lester gets off saying "It just wasn't meant to be".  I don't remember him or any other Red Sox saying "We'll see if it's meant to be" when the season started and tons of money was paid out to big free agents. What a loser thing to say.  How about "Wow. We played like crud and like we'd rather be enjoying our big houses and money than playing baseball. We should be ashamed to show our faces in the New England area and sports in general for the off season."  It wasn't meant to be. That's a good one Lester.  I just wasn't meant to make a good pitch or put in effort. I just wasn't meant to study the game plan or pick good pitches. I just wasn't meant to do my best.  Can we please get rid of guys like this?

[PosImpos]

And to top it all off, Wakefield has announced he definitely wants to return, and even made a comment that the fans deserve to see him chase the record for most wins by a Sox pitcher.

So now we deserve to see him go 7-19 with a 5.75 ERA next year, but hey he got the Red Sox all time wins record!  Woo hoo!!!  I'm sorry, but he's been atrocious for the past 3 months, and should not get a pass just because he's Tim Wakefield.

If Theo has any sense, he'll sit Wake down and tell him that he's not in the team plans for 2012, and that they would completely understand if he wishes to try to continue his career elsewhere.

But to be fair, he should not have started more than 5-10 games tops this past year.  He came in as the 6 or 7th starter.  Generally you expect guys like that to start a handful of games at most.  You can't count on losing your #5 starter for the season, your number 3 starter for 3/4 of the season, and a couple other guys for a handful of starts as well.

I have no problem with Wake coming back as an insurance policy again, because frankly, you just don't find quality starters willing to sign on for a gig like that.

At this point, Wake is guaranteed 4-5 runs through 5 or 6 innings.  Is he really a quality starter?

[CDawg834]

And to top it all off, Wakefield has announced he definitely wants to return, and even made a comment that the fans deserve to see him chase the record for most wins by a Sox pitcher.

So now we deserve to see him go 7-19 with a 5.75 ERA next year, but hey he got the Red Sox all time wins record!  Woo hoo!!!  I'm sorry, but he's been atrocious for the past 3 months, and should not get a pass just because he's Tim Wakefield.

If Theo has any sense, he'll sit Wake down and tell him that he's not in the team plans for 2012, and that they would completely understand if he wishes to try to continue his career elsewhere.

But to be fair, he should not have started more than 5-10 games tops this past year.  He came in as the 6 or 7th starter.  Generally you expect guys like that to start a handful of games at most.  You can't count on losing your #5 starter for the season, your number 3 starter for 3/4 of the season, and a couple other guys for a handful of starts as well.

I have no problem with Wake coming back as an insurance policy again, because frankly, you just don't find quality starters willing to sign on for a gig like that.

But he doesn't think he's an insurance policy...if he's coming back to chase the wins record, then it's clear he expects to be in the rotation and get those opportunities.

[Chris]

And to top it all off, Wakefield has announced he definitely wants to return, and even made a comment that the fans deserve to see him chase the record for most wins by a Sox pitcher.

So now we deserve to see him go 7-19 with a 5.75 ERA next year, but hey he got the Red Sox all time wins record!  Woo hoo!!!  I'm sorry, but he's been atrocious for the past 3 months, and should not get a pass just because he's Tim Wakefield.

If Theo has any sense, he'll sit Wake down and tell him that he's not in the team plans for 2012, and that they would completely understand if he wishes to try to continue his career elsewhere.

But to be fair, he should not have started more than 5-10 games tops this past year.  He came in as the 6 or 7th starter.  Generally you expect guys like that to start a handful of games at most.  You can't count on losing your #5 starter for the season, your number 3 starter for 3/4 of the season, and a couple other guys for a handful of starts as well.

I have no problem with Wake coming back as an insurance policy again, because frankly, you just don't find quality starters willing to sign on for a gig like that.

At this point, Wake is guaranteed 4-5 runs through 5 or 6 innings.  Is he really a quality starter?

Not really.  His ERA was 5.12 this year.  Which means he averaged about 3 runs every 6 innings I believe.

People are remembering his struggles to try to get that win, but are forgetting that he was very solid before that. 

Wake has always been incredibly streaky, and if he is not overused, then he can still be very useful.  Not to mention, if the bullpen didn't keep screwing him.

I also think you are misjudging how few decent starters there are in baseball.

[Finkelskyhook]

Crawford appears to be the Sox's modern-day Renteria.  Appears to be too big a market for him.

Crawford's body language last night looked like somebody who couldn't get out of there fast enough.  His throw to home on the game's last play had all of the effort and urgency of a routine throw to second on a first inning leadoff single on opening day.

[CDawg834]

Crawford appears to be the Sox's modern-day Renteria.  Appears to be too big a market for him.

Crawford's body language last night looked like somebody who couldn't get out of there fast enough.  His throw to home on the game's last play had all of the effort and urgency of a routine throw to second on a first inning leadoff single on opening day.

I'll admit it was a tough play, but given his proven defensive ability, and that the season was on the line, Crawford MUST make that catch.  Inexcusable.

[Finkelskyhook]

Crawford appears to be the Sox's modern-day Renteria.  Appears to be too big a market for him.

Crawford's body language last night looked like somebody who couldn't get out of there fast enough.  His throw to home on the game's last play had all of the effort and urgency of a routine throw to second on a first inning leadoff single on opening day.

I'll admit it was a tough play, but given his proven defensive ability, and that the season was on the line, Crawford MUST make that catch.  Inexcusable.

It wasn't so much not making the catch as it was the routine way he was after he didn't make the catch.  If he'd have put anything on the throw, they have a play at the plate.