Aliens (the kind from outer space)

[Master Po]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7CPLQvd5Rk&feature=rec-LGOUT-real_rn-1r-8-HM

I always found this professor and former photographer at Vandenberg AFB highly credible in they way he describes this incident

[Eja117]

My understanding is that with science being developed now we will soon be able to essentially see other planets within my lifetime and have a good shot at knowing if it has life. Then with I think ion drive we could get a craft up to something like 3 quarters the speed of light eventually and it could maybe reach the closest planets after maybe a 20-40 year voyage. Then of course you have to send back pics/video which takes another decade.

But essentially with technology within our lifetime and certainly that of our kids we could potentially go to other planets. Probably with probes because unless you perfect cryogenic freezing this is a one way trip.

So assuming we aren't the only intelligent life and assuming they are ahead of us technologically and assuming they want to explore it's possible we've already been discovered multiple times by multiple groups who may also have discovered each other.

However they haven't contacted us which I find odd.

I could see some limiting factors like not wanting to let us know much about them. Expense of trips. Not very much practicality to the trips.  Not much to gain.

When I try to think of what we would do I'm not sure. If we found a group of people living several hundred years behind us like 15 light years away there wouldn't be much point to bothering them.

So essentially I think it's likely we're being watched and checked up on via probes, but that's about it. Perhaps if we find them there could be some attempt at discussion, but I think we're a ways away.

This is like Christopher Columbus but way way way harder with a lot lot lot less to gain and quite possibly a lot to lose

[barefacedmonk]

Guava can come across as "talking down" to someone or being rude at times...but that being said...what he is saying is not incorrect.

[dpaps]

Guava can come across as "talking down" to someone or being rude at times...but that being said...what he is saying is not incorrect.

He is incorrect in the certainty in which he thinks his beliefs lie. No one here has said "there absolutely are aliens and they absolutely have visited earth and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong," but he has said that his beliefs are right and there is no debate, when the topic clearly is far from certain.

[guava_wrench]

Guava can come across as "talking down" to someone or being rude at times...but that being said...what he is saying is not incorrect.

He is incorrect in the certainty in which he thinks his beliefs lie. No one here has said "there absolutely are aliens and they absolutely have visited earth and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong," but he has said that his beliefs are right and there is no debate, when the topic clearly is far from certain.

That is not what I have said. I have even allowed that the universe is made of marshmallows.

My point is the degree to which we should take speculation seriously is proportional to the evidence.

It is good to have an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out.

[guava_wrench]

I was under the impression that whimsical fantasy is a major component of science along with economics and good showmanship.  No seriously

Creativity is an important part of doing science. Then you test your hypothesis. When enough evidence is mounted against it, you are often forced to give it up.

Even string theory has a tenuous place in science due to its speculative nature and lack of empirical testing.

[barefacedmonk]

Guava can come across as "talking down" to someone or being rude at times...but that being said...what he is saying is not incorrect.

He is incorrect in the certainty in which he thinks his beliefs lie. No one here has said "there absolutely are aliens and they absolutely have visited earth and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong," but he has said that his beliefs are right and there is no debate, when the topic clearly is far from certain.

I was talking about the travelling at the speed of light thing...that's not possible...because it violates the laws of Physics...that's like saying you can divide by zero. It's not possible.

Anyway, I don't want to get into any arguements...happy to be a silent observer/reader. It is an interesting topic afterall.

[dpaps]

Guava can come across as "talking down" to someone or being rude at times...but that being said...what he is saying is not incorrect.

He is incorrect in the certainty in which he thinks his beliefs lie. No one here has said "there absolutely are aliens and they absolutely have visited earth and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong," but he has said that his beliefs are right and there is no debate, when the topic clearly is far from certain.

I was talking about the travelling at the speed of light thing...that's not possible...because it violates the laws of Physics...that's like saying you can divide by zero. It's not possible.

Anyway, I don't want to get into any arguements...happy to be a silent observer/reader. It is an interesting topic afterall.

It's a theory that we cannot travel faster than the speed of light. To claim that it is a certainty is untrue. There are many beliefs that FTL (faster than light) is possible, by bending space-time. The object doesn't have to move faster than the speed of light if space-time is moving around the object. String theory and general relativity both allow this.

http://news.discovery.com/space/warp-drive-spaceship-engine.html

Again, these are theoretical, but the point I'm making is that these widely accepted beliefs are not 100% certain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-light

[barefacedmonk]

Guava can come across as "talking down" to someone or being rude at times...but that being said...what he is saying is not incorrect.

He is incorrect in the certainty in which he thinks his beliefs lie. No one here has said "there absolutely are aliens and they absolutely have visited earth and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong," but he has said that his beliefs are right and there is no debate, when the topic clearly is far from certain.

I was talking about the travelling at the speed of light thing...that's not possible...because it violates the laws of Physics...that's like saying you can divide by zero. It's not possible.

Anyway, I don't want to get into any arguements...happy to be a silent observer/reader. It is an interesting topic afterall.

It's a theory that we cannot travel faster than the speed of light. To claim that it is a certainty is untrue. There are many beliefs that FTL (faster than light) is possible, by bending space-time. The object doesn't have to move faster than the speed of light if space-time is moving around the object. String theory and general relativity both allow this.

http://news.discovery.com/space/warp-drive-spaceship-engine.html

Again, these are theoretical, but the point I'm making is that these widely accepted beliefs are not 100% certain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-light

You need infinite amount of energy to being with...which is not possible...or as your article says "astronomical amounts of enegry". Once again...all those are not possible...and you also have mass to deal with. You just can't dimisss anything by saying.."It's a theory"...but if you want to argue for the sake of arguing..or to just "win" an argument..then by all means carry on.

I don't know why I'm respoding to your post...don't want to get into meaningless arguments. So, this is my last post in this thread.

[dpaps]

Guava can come across as "talking down" to someone or being rude at times...but that being said...what he is saying is not incorrect.

He is incorrect in the certainty in which he thinks his beliefs lie. No one here has said "there absolutely are aliens and they absolutely have visited earth and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong," but he has said that his beliefs are right and there is no debate, when the topic clearly is far from certain.

I was talking about the travelling at the speed of light thing...that's not possible...because it violates the laws of Physics...that's like saying you can divide by zero. It's not possible.

Anyway, I don't want to get into any arguements...happy to be a silent observer/reader. It is an interesting topic afterall.

It's a theory that we cannot travel faster than the speed of light. To claim that it is a certainty is untrue. There are many beliefs that FTL (faster than light) is possible, by bending space-time. The object doesn't have to move faster than the speed of light if space-time is moving around the object. String theory and general relativity both allow this.

http://news.discovery.com/space/warp-drive-spaceship-engine.html

Again, these are theoretical, but the point I'm making is that these widely accepted beliefs are not 100% certain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-light

You need infinite amount of energy to being with...which is not possible...or as your article says "astronomical amounts of enegry". Once again...all those are not possible...and you also have mass to deal with. You just can't dimisss anything by saying.."It's a theory"...but if you want to argue for the sake of arguing..or to just "win" an argument..then by all means carry on.

I don't know why I'm respoding to your post...don't want to get into meaningless arguments. So, this is my last post in this thread.

 The article clearly states that we currently do not have the technology to manipulate the 11th dimension, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or some other far more advanced life form wouldn't have that technology.  And, it gives the amount of energy required, not infinite, 10^45 joules.

"These calculations are based on some arbitrary advance in technology or some alien technology that would let us manipulate the extra dimension," said Cleaver.

What the scientists were able to estimate was the amount of energy necessary, if the technology was available, to change these dimensions: about 10^45 joules.

I would hope that was your last post in this thread.


Think about it this way, who knows more about this topic, you or these physicists? I'm going with them. Would they say that it is an absolute certainty that it's impossible? No.

[barefacedmonk]

I take it this is you explaining that you don't know how to read? The article clearly states that we currently do not have the technology to manipulate the 11th dimension, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or some other far more advanced life form wouldn't have that technology.  And, it gives the amount of energy required, not infinite, 10^45 joules.
"These calculations are based on some arbitrary advance in technology or some alien technology that would let us manipulate the extra dimension," said Cleaver.

What the scientists were able to estimate was the amount of energy necessary, if the technology was available, to change these dimensions: about 10^45 joules.

I would hope that was your last post in this thread. Or else try reading first.


Think about it this way, who knows more about this topic, you or these physicists? I'm going with them. Would they say that it is an absolute certainty that it's impossible? No.

I read the article...an interesting article for Star Trek fans...also thanks for posting the amount of energy the "warp drive engine" would require...perhaps you missed this part:

"That's about the amount of energy you'd get if you converted the entire mass of Jupiter into pure energy via E = mc^2," said

I wonder where you come up with that amount of energy...maybe you can google some more and find a source to help us all.

You're posting an article that mentions a theory that can't even be tested. Perhaps, you also believe in the "flux capacitor"

You're not worth the time if you are trying to "win" the argument by saying it is possible to travel faster than light. Good night, sir.

[boom]

I find it humorous how you dismiss the thought entirely, just because we dont have the means currently. Just ask your grandfather about microwaves, televisions, or even computers.

Like dpaps said above, I'll take the word the scientist whose entire life is devoted to this topic, other than someone who claims that just because it's currently not possible, doesn't mean it can't happen. Call me a Trekkie or whatever you want (even though I could care less about the Sci-Fi genre, but ummm, thanks?), but the fact remains that they know a hell of a lot more than this entire board combined. 

[dpaps]

I take it this is you explaining that you don't know how to read? The article clearly states that we currently do not have the technology to manipulate the 11th dimension, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or some other far more advanced life form wouldn't have that technology.  And, it gives the amount of energy required, not infinite, 10^45 joules.
"These calculations are based on some arbitrary advance in technology or some alien technology that would let us manipulate the extra dimension," said Cleaver.

What the scientists were able to estimate was the amount of energy necessary, if the technology was available, to change these dimensions: about 10^45 joules.

I would hope that was your last post in this thread. Or else try reading first.


Think about it this way, who knows more about this topic, you or these physicists? I'm going with them. Would they say that it is an absolute certainty that it's impossible? No.

I read the article...an interesting article for Star Trek fans...also thanks for posting the amount of energy the "warp drive engine" would require...perhaps you missed this part:

"That's about the amount of energy you'd get if you converted the entire mass of Jupiter into pure energy via E = mc^2," said

I wonder where you come up with that amount of energy...maybe you can google some more and find a source to help us all.

You're posting an article that mentions a theory that can't even be tested. Perhaps, you also believe in the "flux capacitor"

You're not worth the time if you are trying to "win" the argument by saying it is possible to travel faster than light. Good night, sir.

Again, I'm not arguing that we have the technology or that we are anywhere close to being able to achieve it. What I'm arguing, is that you saying that it is an absolute certainty that we cannot, is false.  You are flat out wrong. No question, and your arrogance and dismissive talk is a joke.

[barefacedmonk]

You are flat out wrong. No question, and your arrogance and dismissive talk is a joke.

The feeling is mutual...exactly how I feel about you.

[Eja117]

I was under the impression that whimsical fantasy is a major component of science along with economics and good showmanship.  No seriously

Creativity is an important part of doing science. Then you test your hypothesis. When enough evidence is mounted against it, you are often forced to give it up.

Even string theory has a tenuous place in science due to its speculative nature and lack of empirical testing.

But there's only so much evidence you can accumulate in your life time, so it doesn't work great with things that take a billion years to prove.