Nets trying to acquire Rip Hamilton, Billups and Melo in a 3 way deal ( rumor )

[Lucky17]

At this point, I think Denver is more concerned about gaining young assets then winning, and rightfully so. And in the proccess of rebuilding you definitely don't want to take back Travis Outlaw's horrendouse contract.

Well, in and of itself, it's not horrendous. $7 mil a year for 3 more years. But, he's not earned the money in Jersey.

Put him in a free-wheeling offense like George Karl's, instead of Avery Johnson's, and I would think that Outlaw's performance would change people's thoughts about that deal.

Regardless, with or without Outlaw's deal on their books, Denver won't have cap space next year.

[Brendan]

I don't get why Denver is taking back players that don't address their glaring need for a starting-caliber SF after losing Anthony.

Q. Ross is undersized and one-dimensional, and Graham is, well, just not good.

Why Morrow, if they also have Afflalo and Smith at SG?

I realize he's done little to validate the contract the Nets gave him this offseason, but I would think Denver would benefit more by taking back Travis Outlaw in this deal.

Lawson, Afflalo/Smith, Outlaw, Favors, and Nene, plus the 1st round picks, make for a pretty exciting core going forward.

The default strategy in the NBA when you're core is leaving is to blow it up some combination of:
1. young players with upside
2. short or expiring contracts
3. draft picks

A team that makes basketball sense doesn't factor in... in fact having a team that cannot play well together improves your lottery chances.

Travis Outlaw on his current contract is the worst possible guy: contract too long too high, little chance to every be even a borderline all star guy, little chance he can be traded for value, and good enough he'll cost you ping ping balls.

[Fafnir]

The attacks on Brook Lopez are a bit overstated...

What is overstated exactly if the guy is playing poor defense, and is one of the worst rebounding starting centers, second only to Andrea Bargnani?

I'm a Brook Lopez fan, but this year he's been awful. Offensively he's scoring, but his true shooting % is down, his usuage is up, and his boards are down considerably. Everyone can have an off year, and I hope he improves, but you've gotta call a spade a spade here. Brook Lopez this season has stunk.

PER of 17 doesn't suck from a production stand point. Period. I get the impression that people think he's a replacement caliber player, when he's above average from a production stand point. (Defensively I cannot say: don't watch the Nets regularly and the scouting says he's bad, I'll take that at face value.) We also have to account for a big change in personnel from year to year and a new coach.

So it's overstated IMO to say he sucks. He's worse than last year, but still an above average center overall. And given all the variables, a plus asset to have. (I'd take him at C over the other guys Melo has played with.) We're talking about a league with a dearth of quality 7 footers.


Update: fix spelling and add last sentence about 7 footers.

PER is a poor measure of production, you can shoot around 33% eFG on additional shot attempts and break even with it.

Lopez is in fact below average with regards to scoring effiecency, rebounding, and defense as a Center. He's not far below average at scoring efficiency however, and he shoots a lot. He's gone from taking 42% of his shots on jumpers to 59%, and he's not a good shooter.

He's an average starting C by PER but given that metrics limitations I think its fair to say he's solidly below average with his poor play this year.

[indeedproceed]

The attacks on Brook Lopez are a bit overstated...

What is overstated exactly if the guy is playing poor defense, and is one of the worst rebounding starting centers, second only to Andrea Bargnani?

I'm a Brook Lopez fan, but this year he's been awful. Offensively he's scoring, but his true shooting % is down, his usuage is up, and his boards are down considerably. Everyone can have an off year, and I hope he improves, but you've gotta call a spade a spade here. Brook Lopez this season has stunk.

PER of 17 doesn't suck from a production stand point. Period. I get the impression that people think he's a replacement caliber player, when he's above average from a production stand point. (Defensively I cannot say: don't watch the Nets regularly and the scouting says he's bad, I'll take that at face value.) We also have to account for a big change in personnel from year to year and a new coach.

So it's overstated IMO to say he sucks. He's worse than last year, but still an above average center overall. And given all the variables, a plus asset to have. (I'd take him at C over the other guys Melo has played with.) We're talking about a league with a dearth of quality 7 footers.


Update: fix spelling and add last sentence about 7 footers.

PER is a poor measure of production, you can shoot around 33% eFG on additional shot attempts and break even with it.

Lopez is in fact below average with regards to scoring effiecency, rebounding, and defense as a Center. He's not far below average at scoring efficiency however, and he shoots a lot. He's gone from taking 42% of his shots on jumpers to 59%, and he's not a good shooter.

He's an average starting C by PER but given that metrics limitations I think its fair to say he's solidly below average with his poor play this year.

Yes. Brook Lopez is still probably the 2nd or 3rd best center prospect in the league right now, but this year, he's been really bad..especially after 2 solid seasons.

[Who]

I wouldn't be too harsh on Brook Lopez' performances this season. He is clearly capable of a lot more. And in time, he'll get back to that.
 
He is a third option (16-18ppg) level scorer (plus a poor passer), a good defender and a below average but serviceable rebounder (8 to 8.5 per 36).

I think there is a strong case to be made that his summer bout of mono has adversely affected his play this season.

[Fafnir]

I wouldn't be too harsh on Brook Lopez' performances this season. He is clearly capable of a lot more. And in time, he'll get back to that.
 
He is a third option (16-18ppg) level scorer (plus a poor passer), a good defender and a below average but serviceable rebounder (8 to 8.5 per 36).

I think there is a strong case to be made that his summer bout of mono has adversely affected his play this season.

He's definitely capable, I just am leary about people counting him as part of a contending type team with Melo. Or even as part of the attractive core to a contender.

Has he been injured?

[rondohondo]

I wouldn't be too harsh on Brook Lopez' performances this season. He is clearly capable of a lot more. And in time, he'll get back to that.
 
He is a third option (16-18ppg) level scorer (plus a poor passer), a good defender and a below average but serviceable rebounder (8 to 8.5 per 36).

I think there is a strong case to be made that his summer bout of mono has adversely affected his play this season.

good defender? The guy wouldn't take a hard foul on the opponent if the championship was on the line. He is as soft as Chris Bosh on defense.

[Moranis]

I really think NJ would be better off keeping Harris instead of adding Chauncey and getting someone like Harrington or Villanueva added into the trade.  It would just make a heck of a lot more sense from a personnell position.

[Finkelskyhook]

I really think NJ would be better off keeping Harris instead of adding Chauncey and getting someone like Harrington or Villanueva added into the trade.  It would just make a heck of a lot more sense from a personnell position.

That really depends on whether they're trying to win now.  Billups would be a huge upgrade over Harris...And a much bigger winner than Villanueva or Harrington.

[Neurotic Guy]

Wow -- a 15 player deal -- not sure I've ever heard of this many involved in 1 trade.

One sickening thought is that Chauncey Billups gets bought out and then opts for Heat or LA.  Hopefully he'll either stick with NJ or will return to Denver.

Picture for Celtice in the short run seems to be helped by this trade unless Billups ends up with a contender.  NJ will clearly be much better, but not yet a contender and this trade obviously keeps Melo away from the Knicks who are looking on the verge lately.

[Finkelskyhook]

Wow -- a 15 player deal -- not sure I've ever heard of this many involved in 1 trade.

One sickening thought is that Chauncey Billups gets bought out and then opts for Heat or LA.  Hopefully he'll either stick with NJ or will return to Denver.

Picture for Celtice in the short run seems to be helped by this trade unless Billups ends up with a contender.  NJ will clearly be much better, but not yet a contender and this trade obviously keeps Melo away from the Knicks who are looking on the verge lately.

It doesn't sound like Billups is going to be happy playing anywhere but Denver.

I don't think Billups has the disposition to play with the messiah.

[guava_wrench]

I really think NJ would be better off keeping Harris instead of adding Chauncey and getting someone like Harrington or Villanueva added into the trade.  It would just make a heck of a lot more sense from a personnell position.

That really depends on whether they're trying to win now.  Billups would be a huge upgrade over Harris...And a much bigger winner than Villanueva or Harrington.

Villanueva is horribly overpaid for a guy who is only fit to put up stats on bad teams.

[guava_wrench]

Wow -- a 15 player deal -- not sure I've ever heard of this many involved in 1 trade.

One sickening thought is that Chauncey Billups gets bought out and then opts for Heat or LA.  Hopefully he'll either stick with NJ or will return to Denver.

Picture for Celtice in the short run seems to be helped by this trade unless Billups ends up with a contender.  NJ will clearly be much better, but not yet a contender and this trade obviously keeps Melo away from the Knicks who are looking on the verge lately.

That would be scary. Billups also seems okay fading into the background if needed and just taking open 3's. He would be a major upgrade for the Heat.

I don't see why NJ would buy him out though. They would want his as a contributor.

[greg683x]

I cant believe Dallas hasnt tried to steal Carmello, or at least try and get in on this deal somehow.

[rondohondo]

I cant believe Dallas hasnt tried to steal Carmello, or at least try and get in on this deal somehow.

Dallas doesn't have any young talent comparable to Favors and Harris combined to trade for Melo with.