Nets trying to acquire Rip Hamilton, Billups and Melo in a 3 way deal ( rumor )

[Brendan]

The attacks on Brook Lopez are a bit overstated... his production is at 17 PER, same as his rookie season, but down from his 20 PER last season. The real question is if he can play better D, because the starting guards are going to be old, 'Melo hasn't been a lock down defender, and the PF is going to be Travis Outlaw IMO.

The real question is how the pieces will fit together - I think Melo at SF and Outlaw as a small PF is a decent forward combo. We know Chauncey and Rip can coexist. And Billups and Melo should already have some chemistry.

Sasha should be better and knows how to play with a ball hog high utilization wing. Farmar isn't a bad backup PG. Humphries has been playing well, and Sheldon isn't a terrible 9th man. It will come down to everyone buying into Avery's system, playing hard D, and Melo playing like an alpha dog on offense. Melo is sinking Denver anyways, so they might as well pull the trigger, DET cannot afford to not make this move, and NJ has no other avenue to an alpha dog, even if he's the worst of the available alpha dogs.

This does make the Outlaw signing worse though. Just a waste of cap space.

[BballTim]

according to ESPN even with the curveball Billups and his agent have thrown, this trade is still picking up steam.

im gonna be so mad if Billups ends up in Miami

that would be a real [peeve]er     Billups would shore up one of their weak spots and give them a real play maker to Wade, Bron and Bosh even that much more effective on offense.  I don't think their D will get any better but their offense would be very scary.

  Any playmaker added to the Heat will immediately have his job description changed to "spot up shooter".

[Who]

Nets 2012 Cap Situation

The cap hold for Brook Lopez is 300% of his previous year's salary. Not the qualifying offer. So he'd count for $9.23 million.

Carmelo Anthony is due $18.5 million in 2011 and would get another 10.5% raise on that to $20.46 million after he signs his contract extension. So another $3.5 million there.

Those two together would equal $29.69 million + another $5 million in cap holds for empty roster spots. So a minimum salary of $34.7 million.

Then the other variables:

Rip Hamilton - $12.65 mil ($9 million guaranteed)
Travis Outlaw - $7 mil
Jordan Farmar - $4.25 mil
Anthony Morrow - $4 mil
Damion James - $1.24 mil
2011 First Round Pick ~~ $1 mil
Minimum number of empty roster spots (4) = $2 mil

So a current salary projection of $61.83 million.

Fair chance they could move Farmar, Morrow, James plus their draft pick for cap flexibility ... but it's hard to see them moving Travis Outlaw after they have given away most of their assets.

Plus, that's assuming they don't add any medium to long term contracts next offseason. So they'd basically be stuck with their roster while trimming away at that supporting cast (+ Billups) ... all while trying to keep Carmelo Anthony and Brook Lopez happy.

[StartOrien]

With that, I guess in order for this to make a lot of sense for the Nets you'd have to speculate on the trade value of Brook Lopez.

[indeedproceed]

The attacks on Brook Lopez are a bit overstated...

What is overstated exactly if the guy is playing poor defense, and is one of the worst rebounding starting centers, second only to Andrea Bargnani?

I'm a Brook Lopez fan, but this year he's been awful. Offensively he's scoring, but his true shooting % is down, his usuage is up, and his boards are down considerably. Everyone can have an off year, and I hope he improves, but you've gotta call a spade a spade here. Brook Lopez this season has stunk.

[Who]

The real question is if he can play better D, because the starting guards are going to be old, 'Melo hasn't been a lock down defender, and the PF is going to be Travis Outlaw IMO.

Carmelo Anthony should play the PF position defensively + on the boards.

Carmelo would do a far superior job in those two areas than Travis Outlaw is capable of doing. Outlaw doesn't have the physical size (heft, girth) or the rebounding ability that Carmelo has. Carmelo can matchup better, in terms of defense and rebounding, than Outlaw can against starting PFs.

Opposing teams would still use their SF to defend Anthony and their PF to check Outlaw. So you'd still get all the benefits of playing Outlaw at the four.

It would be a major mistake by Avery Johnson to use Outlaw at the four instead Melo defensively.

-----------------------------------------------------

Hopefully, they keep hold of Kris Humphries though. Their best team would be Humphries starting and using T.Outlaw as a sixth man combo forward. Humphries gives them very good rebounding and near average defense. Outlaw will be more successful as a bench player where he can avoid, limit his minutes, against top PFs.

[StartOrien]

I just can't believe the Nuggets are going to get so much for what it equates to a Melo rental and 34 year old Chauncey Billups

[indeedproceed]

I just can't believe the Nuggets are going to get so much for what it equates to a Melo rental and 34 year old Chauncey Billups

Its only a rental if Melo doesn't sign. I think Melo signs.

[StartOrien]

I just can't believe the Nuggets are going to get so much for what it equates to a Melo rental and 34 year old Chauncey Billups

Its only a rental if Melo doesn't sign. I think Melo signs.

Ya, I worded that wrongly. What I meant to say is its a rental for Denver, seeing that they didn't have a chance at resigning Melo.

[Brendan]

The attacks on Brook Lopez are a bit overstated...

What is overstated exactly if the guy is playing poor defense, and is one of the worst rebounding starting centers, second only to Andrea Bargnani?

I'm a Brook Lopez fan, but this year he's been awful. Offensively he's scoring, but his true shooting % is down, his usuage is up, and his boards are down considerably. Everyone can have an off year, and I hope he improves, but you've gotta call a spade a spade here. Brook Lopez this season has stunk.

PER of 17 doesn't suck from a production stand point. Period. I get the impression that people think he's a replacement caliber player, when he's above average from a production stand point. (Defensively I cannot say: don't watch the Nets regularly and the scouting says he's bad, I'll take that at face value.) We also have to account for a big change in personnel from year to year and a new coach.

So it's overstated IMO to say he sucks. He's worse than last year, but still an above average center overall. And given all the variables, a plus asset to have. (I'd take him at C over the other guys Melo has played with.) We're talking about a league with a dearth of quality 7 footers.


Update: fix spelling and add last sentence about 7 footers.

[Rondo2287]

The attacks on Brook Lopez are a bit overstated...

What is overstated exactly if the guy is playing poor defense, and is one of the worst rebounding starting centers, second only to Andrea Bargnani?

I'm a Brook Lopez fan, but this year he's been awful. Offensively he's scoring, but his true shooting % is down, his usuage is up, and his boards are down considerably. Everyone can have an off year, and I hope he improves, but you've gotta call a spade a spade here. Brook Lopez this season has stunk.

PER of 17 doesn't suck from a production stand point. Period. I get the impression that people think he's a replacement caliber player, when he's above average from a production stand point. (Defensively I cannot say: don't watch the Nets regularly and the scouting says he's bad, I'll take that at face value.) We also have to account for a big change in personal from year to year and a new coach.

So it's overstated IMO to say he sucks. He's worse than last year, but still an above average center overall. And given all the variables, a plus asset to have. (I'd take him at C over the other guys Melo has played with.)

I dunno, when healthy Nene has been pretty solid

[Brendan]

The real question is if he can play better D, because the starting guards are going to be old, 'Melo hasn't been a lock down defender, and the PF is going to be Travis Outlaw IMO.

Carmelo Anthony should play the PF position defensively + on the boards.

Carmelo would do a far superior job in those two areas than Travis Outlaw is capable of doing. Outlaw doesn't have the physical size (heft, girth) or the rebounding ability that Carmelo has. Carmelo can matchup better, in terms of defense and rebounding, than Outlaw can against starting PFs.

Opposing teams would still use their SF to defend Anthony and their PF to check Outlaw. So you'd still get all the benefits of playing Outlaw at the four.

It would be a major mistake by Avery Johnson to use Outlaw at the four instead Melo defensively.

-----------------------------------------------------

Hopefully, they keep hold of Kris Humphries though. Their best team would be Humphries starting and using T.Outlaw as a sixth man combo forward. Humphries gives them very good rebounding and near average defense. Outlaw will be more successful as a bench player where he can avoid, limit his minutes, against top PFs.

More or less agree with this. I think the combo of Melo and Outlaw at forward will be good. I think Humphries and Melo will work too. I don't love Outlaw and Humphries together tho.

I'm also not sure Sasha wouldn't be a better starter st SG with Rip playing as a high utilization 6th man.

Something like a platoon at C and PG with Lopez / Sheldon and Billups / Farmar, plus Rip and Outlaw as highly utilized 6th men depending on match ups? I go back and forth - Sasha has better 3pt %, but Rip moves better off ball - which may be more important for creating space and mismatches for Melo. Since Rip is more likely to complain at a bench role, I'd probably leave Sash there.

[Brendan]

I dunno, when healthy Nene has been pretty solid

I always viewed him as more of a big/PF than a pure center, but the when healthy thing is a big caveat. Same for Camby.

[Lucky17]

I don't get why Denver is taking back players that don't address their glaring need for a starting-caliber SF after losing Anthony.

Q. Ross is undersized and one-dimensional, and Graham is, well, just not good.

Why Morrow, if they also have Afflalo and Smith at SG?

I realize he's done little to validate the contract the Nets gave him this offseason, but I would think Denver would benefit more by taking back Travis Outlaw in this deal.

Lawson, Afflalo/Smith, Outlaw, Favors, and Nene, plus the 1st round picks, make for a pretty exciting core going forward.

[StartOrien]

I don't get why Denver is taking back players that don't address their glaring need for a starting-caliber SF after losing Anthony.

Q. Ross is undersized and one-dimensional, and Graham is, well, just not good.

Why Morrow, if they also have Afflalo and Smith at SG?

I realize he's done little to validate the contract the Nets gave him this offseason, but I would think Denver would benefit more by taking back Travis Outlaw in this deal.

Lawson, Afflalo/Smith, Outlaw, Favors, and Nene, plus the 1st round picks, make for a pretty exciting core going forward.

At this point, I think Denver is more concerned about gaining young assets then winning, and rightfully so. And in the proccess of rebuilding you definitely don't want to take back Travis Outlaw's horrendouse contract.