I am very nervous about building our team around Rondo in the future

[CelticG1]

I think you are crazy.  People wouldn't want to play with Rondo?  The guy looks to pass too much even and he is maybe the leagues best passer. He is a real floor general and a very smart player. He plays extremely hard defense and always hustles.  I think just about every player would love to play alongside Rondo, he would make them look great out there on the floor.

In the future I see the team becoming faster paced and really focusing on running the floor after defensive stops with Rondo as our PG.  The team may be built around him because he is here, but I'm sure we can land a couple stars alongside him that will be our foundation.

It will be interesting to see but I don't think we are in as bad of a situation for the future as some.  I could see us flipping some expiring contracts for valuable players or landing quality free agents after the big three era.

That's a litte insulting. Why does someone who doesn't agree with you have to be CRAZY versus having a different view?

If someone thinks that Free agents are dying to come to Boston to live versus LA or Miami, or Orlando, they are misleading themselves. If a team is a player away from winning a title (like the C's are now which brought in JO and Shaq) then maybe they come. We can only attract 2nd tier free agents even then! Perk will get too much money to be around, so you're really looking at Rondo being the only guy here at that point that is a star type player. It is MUCH more feasible that Rondo goes elsewhere to play with a couple of stars than them coming to frigid Boston to him and a bunch of nobodies.

Because there is literally no possible way to argue the league leader in assists is not a good offensive player.  It's that simple.  To say he isn't is, sorry, crazy.  And to ignore all he has done scoring and not realize that he clearly focuses more on facilitating other's offense instead of looking for his own shot (which, again, is the whole job of a PG) is also not rational.

And players would love, love, love to play with a PG of Rondo's caliber, and especially one that is so focused on facilitating the offense of others.  And a guy who dives face first for loose balls he has no business grabbing? Or gets put back offensive boards over centers? That's just icing. That's just common sense that you would want to play with a guy like that.

Yes, he has shooting defeciencies.  That doesn't make him a bad offensive player at all.

At the end of the day if Rondo wasn't surrounded with who he is surrounded with, would he be as good an offensive player as you say he is? In a word: No.

Would he be leading the league in assists? No. The question is when that happens is he going to be able to generate offense in other ways i.e. scoring the ball. I have my doubts that he can consistently produce offense whether through assists or scoring the ball once this plethora of talent is gone.

As for people "loving" to play with Rondo I don't see it being that different than other star players. Players want money, winning, and location. We've been getting our free agents the past few years because of our Big 3 not Rondo. New Orleans has the best point in the league and you don't see anyone begging to go there. I think you highly overrating Rondo in this regard. We would be the luckiest fans on earth if a Durant, or Howard, or some other star in a few years just makes it known that the one person they want to play with is Rondo

[EJPLAYA]

How come no one will address the key concern and that is why it isn't more likely that Rondo will leave and join a different team for another run rather than hope they will come here? We don't attract tier one free agents, period. Never have and never will. Sorry guys, but very few people choose to live in Boston if they don't have to.

[BballTim]

I do think Rondo should shoot more however.

  I'm somewhat torn on this. If he can hit his outside shot, I'd use it sparingly until teams show they can stop his passing. He could drive more but I don't like to see him get knocked to the ground all the time like he used to.

I just think he should have about 2 or 3 more shot attempts of various types a game. Sometimes from outside, other times from layups he passes out of for goodness knows what reasons.

If anything it would diversify our offense a bit more and make us and him less predictable.I don't think it's so much him wanting to pass those shots up as him just not having the confidence to hit them. Ridnour the other night was just one extreme example of a guy begging him to shoot, even close in.

  I don't know that we shold base our judgments on Rondo on one of his first games back from injury when he's clearly not at full speed yet.

Really? You don't see Rondo shy away from taking that jumper on a regular basis? I'm basing it on his career of passing up jumpers and his inability to hit a short jumper with consistency and confidence.

  I think that there are times when he should take the shot and doesn't, but I don't think it's as common as you do. He plays with three great shooters and a guy standing near the basket. Opposing teams would want Rondo to take those jumpers every trip down court. He'd have to be well above average at it for it to be a better option than Paul or Ray or KG taking open jumpers. Will opponents continue to give him that shot most of the time? Yes. Do I want him to take outside shots instead of getting 13-14 assists a game? Not really.

  Again, while he does pass up some shots he should take (as does KG/RA/PP) it's worth noting that the average starting point guard takes about 3 16-23 foot jump shots per 40 minutes and Rondo takes 2.8. Do we really wanting him taking *more* outside shots than the average point guard?

[Fafnir]

How come no one will address the key concern and that is why it isn't more likely that Rondo will leave and join a different team for another run rather than hope they will come here? We don't attract tier one free agents, period. Never have and never will. Sorry guys, but very few people choose to live in Boston if they don't have to.

We control Rondo until the end of his current contract. If he demands a trade then the C's can approach rebuilding based on the packages that are offered from him. He doesn't have an opt out clause, so really that concern isn't one that will come up in 2012 or in the C's current planning.

The goal is to build around Rondo after all, not plan for the trade that sends him elsewhere.

I get it that FAs typically haven't come to Boston in the past. But that doesn't mean the C's should forget even trying to play the FA market. Especially when Danny has carefully built cap flexibility in after next season.

[BballTim]

At the end of the day if Rondo wasn't surrounded with who he is surrounded with, would he be as good an offensive player as you say he is? In a word: No.

Would he be leading the league in assists? No.

  Put Rondo on a team with younger, more athletic players that can run the break with him and see what happens. I think you'll be shocked.

[CelticG1]

I do think Rondo should shoot more however.

  I'm somewhat torn on this. If he can hit his outside shot, I'd use it sparingly until teams show they can stop his passing. He could drive more but I don't like to see him get knocked to the ground all the time like he used to.

I just think he should have about 2 or 3 more shot attempts of various types a game. Sometimes from outside, other times from layups he passes out of for goodness knows what reasons.

If anything it would diversify our offense a bit more and make us and him less predictable.I don't think it's so much him wanting to pass those shots up as him just not having the confidence to hit them. Ridnour the other night was just one extreme example of a guy begging him to shoot, even close in.

  I don't know that we shold base our judgments on Rondo on one of his first games back from injury when he's clearly not at full speed yet.

Really? You don't see Rondo shy away from taking that jumper on a regular basis? I'm basing it on his career of passing up jumpers and his inability to hit a short jumper with consistency and confidence.

But you didn't say that.  You said "even close in" and notice Rondo took an elbow jumper and hit a floater in key situations.

He shies away from shooting jumpers, sure, but this year he is so busy creating and setting up matchups for the other guys that it is not something you notice or is glaring.  Teams are sagging off of him like you saw with the Lakers for example.  That's simply not the case.

Ridnour did, and like Tim said, it was one game where you could tell Rondo was coming back from injury.  Complete over reaction.  And notice that again, when his team needed the shot and Ridnour was daring him to shoot Rondo hit an elbow jumper and a floater in clutch moments.

And we have seen Rondo be able to get to the rim with his speed even when teams sag off recently... I really can't understand where this is all coming from.  Because he looks to facilitate more?  I couldn't agree less with the criticism and love how great of a floor general he is for us.  Truly outstanding PG play.

I did say that was "One extreme example" one of many many many. It was great that Rondo finally took two shots to put us up against the Timberwolves when we probably wouldn't have been in the situation if he looked for it earlier.

Anyway he is a great floor general for THIS team. How do you feel about moving forward with him though. This team has helped make Rondo who he is. They have made him great. Can he still do when they are gone? He was cut from the USA basketball team this doesn't worry you?

[CelticG1]

At the end of the day if Rondo wasn't surrounded with who he is surrounded with, would he be as good an offensive player as you say he is? In a word: No.

Would he be leading the league in assists? No.

  Put Rondo on a team with younger, more athletic players that can run the break with him and see what happens. I think you'll be shocked.

That's a good point. I guess it's just hard to imagine such a transformation of a team. He would be outstanding running the break with guys like that. He's outstanding at running the break with the guys we have now.

[BballTim]

Anyway he is a great floor general for THIS team. How do you feel about moving forward with him though. This team has helped make Rondo who he is. They have made him great. Can he still do when they are gone? He was cut from the USA basketball team this doesn't worry you?

  I'd have a hard time watching the Celts if they ran an offense like USA basketball, if you can generously call that running an offense. Use your superior athleticism in transition, spread the floor for isolations, get the ball to KD. The Celts would crush them.

  So, not worried.

[Snakehead]

I think you are crazy.  People wouldn't want to play with Rondo?  The guy looks to pass too much even and he is maybe the leagues best passer. He is a real floor general and a very smart player. He plays extremely hard defense and always hustles.  I think just about every player would love to play alongside Rondo, he would make them look great out there on the floor.

In the future I see the team becoming faster paced and really focusing on running the floor after defensive stops with Rondo as our PG.  The team may be built around him because he is here, but I'm sure we can land a couple stars alongside him that will be our foundation.

It will be interesting to see but I don't think we are in as bad of a situation for the future as some.  I could see us flipping some expiring contracts for valuable players or landing quality free agents after the big three era.

That's a litte insulting. Why does someone who doesn't agree with you have to be CRAZY versus having a different view?

If someone thinks that Free agents are dying to come to Boston to live versus LA or Miami, or Orlando, they are misleading themselves. If a team is a player away from winning a title (like the C's are now which brought in JO and Shaq) then maybe they come. We can only attract 2nd tier free agents even then! Perk will get too much money to be around, so you're really looking at Rondo being the only guy here at that point that is a star type player. It is MUCH more feasible that Rondo goes elsewhere to play with a couple of stars than them coming to frigid Boston to him and a bunch of nobodies.

Because there is literally no possible way to argue the league leader in assists is not a good offensive player.  It's that simple.  To say he isn't is, sorry, crazy.  And to ignore all he has done scoring and not realize that he clearly focuses more on facilitating other's offense instead of looking for his own shot (which, again, is the whole job of a PG) is also not rational.

And players would love, love, love to play with a PG of Rondo's caliber, and especially one that is so focused on facilitating the offense of others.  And a guy who dives face first for loose balls he has no business grabbing? Or gets put back offensive boards over centers? That's just icing. That's just common sense that you would want to play with a guy like that.

Yes, he has shooting defeciencies.  That doesn't make him a bad offensive player at all.

At the end of the day if Rondo wasn't surrounded with who he is surrounded with, would he be as good an offensive player as you say he is? In a word: No.

Would he be leading the league in assists? No. The question is when that happens is he going to be able to generate offense in other ways i.e. scoring the ball. I have my doubts that he can consistently produce offense whether through assists or scoring the ball once this plethora of talent is gone.

As for people "loving" to play with Rondo I don't see it being that different than other star players. Players want money, winning, and location. We've been getting our free agents the past few years because of our Big 3 not Rondo. New Orleans has the best point in the league and you don't see anyone begging to go there. I think you highly overrating Rondo in this regard. We would be the luckiest fans on earth if a Durant, or Howard, or some other star in a few years just makes it known that the one person they want to play with is Rondo

New Orleans has a terrible GM, is financially crippled, doesn't get attendance, hasn't had a good coach, etc.  I could go on but comparing us to the Hornets is a laugh.  Players would love to play with Chris Paul, why do you think Amare wanted him in NY?  Why do you think the Magic try to trade for him all the time?  Players just wouldn't go to New Orleans and shouldn't because I wouldn't be surprised if that team is contracted in the next season or two.  Chris Paul himself wanted out of there this summer.


Rondo makes perfect passes and a lot of players could score passes that he throws.  Maybe he doesn't lead the league quite on a less talented team but he is averaging 13.6 as of right now when the next guy is Nash at just over 10... okay maybe he averages 3 assists less but he is still the league leader or just about.  Wow big drop off.  Sure he thrives off talent in passing but a ton of NBA players, much less talented ones, could finish off the beautiful passes he throws.

Just because a player plays with other talented players and does his job does not mean you can throw his contributions out.  Pierce also must not be that great of a player.  I bet he couldn't score on teams with less talent around him by that logic.  Or Ray can't shoot with the spacing others provide.  Nash has had a huge drop off in his teams talent and can still dish for 10 + assists a game.  I do not see why Rondo would be different.


And Boston is a very attractive location for a player.  1) Recent success 2) Proven GM and owner willing to spend and make drastic moves if neccessary and want to compete for a title every year 3) Great coach (though that could change, we will have to see) 4) Great fanbase and 5) Yes, an outstanding PG who would love nothing more than to make sure you score plenty of points.  Why wouldn't someone want to go here again?

[Atzar]

I am nervous about building a team around rondo.. alone
with one or two young stars that carry the scoring and rebounding
and our old multi  all star starters as backups till they retire
I am pretty ok with it.

This.  TP.

Rondo isn't a LeBron or a Wade, where you can put him on a team with garbage and he'll still drag them to the playoffs.  And even then, those two couldn't WIN anything without help.  With Rondo in a situation like that, we're probably a late lottery team every year.  That's probably a worst case scenario, since teams like that are consistently not good enough to be relevant and too good to draft a player who could pull them out of it. 

Luckily, I don't think anybody in the front office is content to take that route.  

I think he'd be a perfect point guard for a team like the latest successful Detroit model, with Chauncey, Rip, Tayshaun, Ben/Dice and Sheed.  None of those players are superstars, but with the exception of Ben Wallace they're all very good players at both ends of the court whose skills complement each other.  Ben Wallace, for his part, was probably the best defensive big of the early years of the previous decade.  

Maybe you're right, and we don't have the ability to attract a superstar to Boston.  I don't think that's the case, but even if it is, I think we can be a very relevant team on the championship level with a team comprised of very-good-but-not-elite players at all positions.  

Long story short, you wouldn't necessarily need a superstar to turn the Rondo-era Celtics into contenders.  But if you expect to win with just Rondo... no player in the NBA is that good.  

[rondohondo]

How come no one will address the key concern and that is why it isn't more likely that Rondo will leave and join a different team for another run rather than hope they will come here? We don't attract tier one free agents, period. Never have and never will. Sorry guys, but very few people choose to live in Boston if they don't have to.

This is a ridiculous statement that some people around here keep bringing up. Since the CBA has been put in place the C's have never been in a position to land a top tier FA. When have they had cap room since the early 90's? the answer is never .

Why would you think this is the last place any top tier FA would want to play? This is only the organization with the most titles in NBA history, most retired numbers, the most hall of famers in NBA history, played in some of the most memorable games in NBA history.

Any top tier FA would want to play here if they knew that they could win. If Rondo is here and Doc is still here , I don't see why someone wouldn't want to try and join up with those 2 to build a new championship contender

The whole thing about boston not being attractive to free agents is BS

[celtics2]

Rondo would make any team better immediately. I don't know of another point that has his skills in breaking down a defense. It's not just physical ability but basketball knowledge also. He's a born leader. Confident with the skill to back it up. When it comes time for him to drop a few he will. Now he unselfishly defaults to the Big 3.

As long as an Ainge is around to pick the crop with a mix of vets and youth we'll be ok. Maybe just not Banner good enough till the right mix is available. In the meantime don't meander off without witnessing each and every game with this group because it's magical stuff. It's not going to last much longer.

[Onslaught]

The thing that worries me just a little is the lack of a good jump shot. All it would take is one injury and his speed would be over with. And while this would be very bad for any PG, it would ruin Rondo. So if he gets hurt or father time slows him down then he's got nothing to fall back on.

But like I said, it worries me just a little. 

[RJ87]

At the end of the day if Rondo wasn't surrounded with who he is surrounded with, would he be as good an offensive player as you say he is? In a word: No.

Would he be leading the league in assists? No.

  Put Rondo on a team with younger, more athletic players that can run the break with him and see what happens. I think you'll be shocked.

I'm glad someone finally brought that up.

People keep saying that being on this team made Rondo who he is, ignoring the fact that this team isn't really built around Rondo's strengths yet he still thrives in it.

Did playing with the Big 3 speed up his development? Absolutely. But the talent - the speed, the floor vision, the passing ability - those aspects of his game were there to begin with. If you put players around him that can are athletic and can get out on the break with him in an uptempo offense, he'd really get to shine. But he's here with this team, in a slower, half-court offense and he's still an All-Star.

As far as the complaints about his shooting, I think some fans (not all) keep expecting him to turn into a Ray Allen type of shooter overnight. That's not gonna happen and people need to get away from that hope. But if you can't see the progression in his shot from his rookie year until now, than you're really not paying attention. What I've seen from him this year is him pulling up at the elbow and taking that jumper with confidence, and hitting it with more consistency than he has in his career. He couldn't do that his rookie year, or even the championship season. That's all I want from him in that regard - consistency.

[snively]

I definitely share a lot of the same worries.  I think Rondo still has a long way to go in his game to reach that true superstar PG level to carry a team.  I think without a great supporting cast, unless he can really improve with his shot (which I have certainly not ruled out, but have not seen yet), he will become very average. 

I also worry about him as a guy who relies so much on athleticism, that if he ever does get a serious injury, I am not sure he will be able to recover from it and still be effective.

This is why I think it is so imperative that the C's do everything they can to surround him with other stars.  He is not going to be the type of player you can just surround with good role players, and hope he brings you to the promised land.  With other stars around him, he has a special skillset that will make everyone better (including himself). 

Can you name any player one that you can surround with "good roleplayers" and have confidence that they’ll make it to the promised land? LeBron James couldn’t do it and he’s not even a shoe-in surrounded with Wade and Bosh.  Pierce needed KG, Ray and a bunch of good roleplayers.  Every one needs stars! (Incidentally, one of the guys with the most success carting around roleplayers was Jason Kidd, whose game is pretty similar to Rondo’s.) 

Maybe Rondo can’t be the best player on a traditional championship squad (is there even such a thing?), but he certainly strikes me as a worthy candidate for 2nd or 3rd best (and his payscale makes him a great fit for such a role).

As for your fear that Rondo would become “very average” if divested of his stars, I have to shake my head.  He’s arguably the best passer/floor general in the game, a skill he complements with elite quickness & ball-handling, great length and athleticism, good finishing ability and strong defensive abilities.  Take away the Big 3 and he still has those abilities/qualities.