I am very nervous about building our team around Rondo in the future

[Fafnir]

Not all offense is based on being a good jump shooter but has there really ever been as bad a PG shooter as Rondo? Can Rondo really pick up the scoring slack when the Big 3 leave? I've seen him do it in spurts, short spurts, but I don't think he can consistently score like some of these other point guards in the league.

Rondo could be the best point guard in the league right now but he could easily be the 6th best as well. Paul, Williams, Nash, Rose, Westbrook could all be rated higher than him.

Some of these guys (Rose and Westbrook) are looked at as poor shooters but they are light years ahead of Rondo and I feel like they have improved their shooting dramatically each year.

I just feel like Rondo is settling right now. He had some quote a while back about saying he doesn't need to have a jump shot because he can get to the rim whenever he wants.

We're begging this guy to develop that elbow jumper when really that should be something Perk needs to develop. Rondo should have already developed that in high school/college and maybe be working on his 3 point range or something.

I love watching Rondo play for this team and at times I think he is our MVP (along with KG and Pierce) but I can't help but worry that those guys will be gone before he knows it and he's still looking to dish to the hall of famers

  Rondo's hitting 45% of his 16-23 foot jumpers when the average pg hits about 38% of them. How is that not developing?

I think its harder to see the development because he doesn't actively look to take that shot very often.

It also means that we have a small sample size to look at and he might have actually not have improved. FG% is the most volatile basketball stat from year to year.

[2short]

ugh this is the pg who nearly averaged a triple double in the playoffs?

[BballTim]

Not all offense is based on being a good jump shooter but has there really ever been as bad a PG shooter as Rondo? Can Rondo really pick up the scoring slack when the Big 3 leave? I've seen him do it in spurts, short spurts, but I don't think he can consistently score like some of these other point guards in the league.

Rondo could be the best point guard in the league right now but he could easily be the 6th best as well. Paul, Williams, Nash, Rose, Westbrook could all be rated higher than him.

Some of these guys (Rose and Westbrook) are looked at as poor shooters but they are light years ahead of Rondo and I feel like they have improved their shooting dramatically each year.

I just feel like Rondo is settling right now. He had some quote a while back about saying he doesn't need to have a jump shot because he can get to the rim whenever he wants.

We're begging this guy to develop that elbow jumper when really that should be something Perk needs to develop. Rondo should have already developed that in high school/college and maybe be working on his 3 point range or something.

I love watching Rondo play for this team and at times I think he is our MVP (along with KG and Pierce) but I can't help but worry that those guys will be gone before he knows it and he's still looking to dish to the hall of famers

  Rondo's hitting 45% of his 16-23 foot jumpers when the average pg hits about 38% of them. How is that not developing?

I think its harder to see the development because he doesn't actively look to take that shot very often.

It also means that we have a small sample size to look at and he might have actually not have improved. FG% is the most volatile basketball stat from year to year.

  Agree about the small sample size, disagree that we want someone who can create as many easy scoring chances as Rondo actively looking to take more long two point jump shots.

[Fafnir]

Not all offense is based on being a good jump shooter but has there really ever been as bad a PG shooter as Rondo? Can Rondo really pick up the scoring slack when the Big 3 leave? I've seen him do it in spurts, short spurts, but I don't think he can consistently score like some of these other point guards in the league.

Rondo could be the best point guard in the league right now but he could easily be the 6th best as well. Paul, Williams, Nash, Rose, Westbrook could all be rated higher than him.

Some of these guys (Rose and Westbrook) are looked at as poor shooters but they are light years ahead of Rondo and I feel like they have improved their shooting dramatically each year.

I just feel like Rondo is settling right now. He had some quote a while back about saying he doesn't need to have a jump shot because he can get to the rim whenever he wants.

We're begging this guy to develop that elbow jumper when really that should be something Perk needs to develop. Rondo should have already developed that in high school/college and maybe be working on his 3 point range or something.

I love watching Rondo play for this team and at times I think he is our MVP (along with KG and Pierce) but I can't help but worry that those guys will be gone before he knows it and he's still looking to dish to the hall of famers

  Rondo's hitting 45% of his 16-23 foot jumpers when the average pg hits about 38% of them. How is that not developing?

I think its harder to see the development because he doesn't actively look to take that shot very often.

It also means that we have a small sample size to look at and he might have actually not have improved. FG% is the most volatile basketball stat from year to year.

  Agree about the small sample size, disagree that we want someone who can create as many easy scoring chances as Rondo actively looking to take more long two point jump shots.

Well I never said that.

I do think Rondo should shoot more however.

[EJPLAYA]

You build around a superstar, not a PG. Especially when they are limited in their abilities.

  How many players in the history of the league weren't limited in their abilities?

All the ones who you should actually look at building around. It's one thing to be somewhat limited in your abilities. It's another thing to be completely innefective at a major part of the game. (offense. although he seems to be getting a bit better this year with that after a disastrous last year)

  I honestly can't believe anyone who's watched the Celts this year would ever claim that Rondo's completely ineffective on offense. There's a lot more going on out there than people shooting. The ball doesn't magically appear in just the right spot at just the right time when PP or RA get ready to shoot those threes, and the ball doesn't randomly end up near the rim when KG and Shaq are standing under the basket. And have you ever seen Rondo direct those guys around on the court? That's not for a group photo, he's creating mismatches and getting us good looks at the basket.

  And how exactly was he "disastrous" on offense last year? He was among the league leaders in assists and among the leading point guards in fg%, arguably the best at getting to the rim. He obviously wasn't the best offensive pg in the league but I'd hardly label him a disaster.

TP for bringing up Detroit. The problem is that Isaiah had no weaknesses. He was one of the top few PG's in NBA history. If Rondo was at that level I'd agree that we should try and build around him. He isn't though nor will ever be (never will be a great offensive player), so as you said in your other post he is a "piece" rather than someone to build around.

  Rondo might not be another Isaiah, but then PP wasn't exactly a Larry Bird in 07 when we traded for Ray and KG. It's the same concept. Does calling PP a piece or saying we built around him change the results of the last three seasons?

As solid as he is, I truly believe that had he not been on the Celtics, and with the Big Three, he would have been a mediocre PG in this league. I think they have helped him develop into more than that, but his deficiencies would have held him back on a lottery team.

  And I think that the Rondo we'd have seen would be closer to what we've gotten in the playoffs the last two years (17/10/10 and 16/6/9). It's generally been the case that his numbers go up whenever any of the big three were out of the lineup or playing hurt. Clearly he's capable of scoring more than he does, and clearly he's capable of dominating playoff games.

You're misquoting what I was saying. I said that he was disastrous shooting last year. Not offense as a whole. I also said that he is an effective PG passing the ball to Hall of Fame players, however pay attention to how he looks when he is out there with the second unit. He looks mediocre. Not terrible, just okay. He is a horrid free throw shooter and that also hurts them. I like Rondo a lot and think he's a great piece on a championship team. I just think his struggle with shooting the ball doesn't allow him to be a great player on a mediocre squad. He's going to have to go and jooin someone that is a star to be effective at that level. We aren't going to attract that level guy in free agency.

  I didn't misquote you: "It's another thing to be completely innefective at a major part of the game. (offense" other than saying ineffective instead of completely ineffective. And it's worth noting that he was among the best point guards in fg% last year. As for him looking not so great with the second unit, I don't think PP or RA or KG or anyone else are as effective playing with a bunch of scrubs.

  What nba roster could you possibly put him on where the other four starters are no better than Nate/Quis/Baby/Erden? Most nba teams have players that can run with Rondo on the break. Most nba teams have players on their rosters that can hit outside shots or finish shots under the basket. Put him on a team like that nad he'll do fine. Put him on a D league roster against nba teams and, you're right, he'll struggle.

All right, let's call it "selective" quoting. Taken out of context. Let's not forget that the Lakers in the finals did a great job of exposing his weakness when it mattered by double teaming him and daring him to shoot that open jumper which he refused to do. This prevents him from getting to the rim and basically makes him innefective on offense. It stagnated our offense and made it tough for our stars to even score.

I did comment on the fact that his shooting this year does appear better than last. It looked better 2 years ago too though and then regressed so who knows if he's just on a lucky streak.

My main point is though that Rondo is not the key cog in a championship team. He is a great piece and if this wasn't Boston would likely attract bigtime free agents. It is though and high end free agents don't come here. The only reason we have the three we do is because we drafted one and traded for the other 2.

[BballTim]

I do think Rondo should shoot more however.

  I'm somewhat torn on this. If he can hit his outside shot, I'd use it sparingly until teams show they can stop his passing. He could drive more but I don't like to see him get knocked to the ground all the time like he used to.

[Fafnir]

I do think Rondo should shoot more however.

  I'm somewhat torn on this. If he can hit his outside shot, I'd use it sparingly until teams show they can stop his passing. He could drive more but I don't like to see him get knocked to the ground all the time like he used to.

I just think he should have about 2 or 3 more shot attempts of various types a game. Sometimes from outside, other times from layups he passes out of for goodness knows what reasons.

[BballTim]

All right, let's call it "selective" quoting. Taken out of context. Let's not forget that the Lakers in the finals did a great job of exposing his weakness when it mattered by double teaming him and daring him to shoot that open jumper which he refused to do. This prevents him from getting to the rim and basically makes him innefective on offense. It stagnated our offense and made it tough for our stars to even score.

  I just don't think it's that simple. In the 08 finals the Lakers employed that strategy and it seemed to only work in the games Rondo was injured. In 09 it worked for Orlando, but we were without KG and Rondo sprained his ankle a few times and was worn down from the Bulls series. They didn't have the same luck against us last year. I don't think it would have worked against the Lakers last year if Artest didn't knee Ray in the thigh. It's not that Rondo couldn't get him open shots, Ray just couldn't hit them. We'd have seen very little playoff success in the last 3 years if all you had to do to stop us was ignore Rondo.

My main point is though that Rondo is not the key cog in a championship team. He is a great piece and if this wasn't Boston would likely attract bigtime free agents. It is though and high end free agents don't come here. The only reason we have the three we do is because we drafted one and traded for the other 2.

  Again, a guy that averaged close to a triple double in consecutive 7 game playoff series and played the way Rondo did against the Heat and the Cavs last year can't be a key cog on a championship team? I disagree.

[BballTim]

I do think Rondo should shoot more however.

  I'm somewhat torn on this. If he can hit his outside shot, I'd use it sparingly until teams show they can stop his passing. He could drive more but I don't like to see him get knocked to the ground all the time like he used to.

I just think he should have about 2 or 3 more shot attempts of various types a game. Sometimes from outside, other times from layups he passes out of for goodness knows what reasons.

  I'd rather he get healthy before he looks to drive more. He's down about 1.5 shots a game but he's getting 4 more assists. I can live with that.

[CelticG1]

I do think Rondo should shoot more however.

  I'm somewhat torn on this. If he can hit his outside shot, I'd use it sparingly until teams show they can stop his passing. He could drive more but I don't like to see him get knocked to the ground all the time like he used to.

I just think he should have about 2 or 3 more shot attempts of various types a game. Sometimes from outside, other times from layups he passes out of for goodness knows what reasons.

If anything it would diversify our offense a bit more and make us and him less predictable.I don't think it's so much him wanting to pass those shots up as him just not having the confidence to hit them. Ridnour the other night was just one extreme example of a guy begging him to shoot, even close in.

[BballTim]

I do think Rondo should shoot more however.

  I'm somewhat torn on this. If he can hit his outside shot, I'd use it sparingly until teams show they can stop his passing. He could drive more but I don't like to see him get knocked to the ground all the time like he used to.

I just think he should have about 2 or 3 more shot attempts of various types a game. Sometimes from outside, other times from layups he passes out of for goodness knows what reasons.

If anything it would diversify our offense a bit more and make us and him less predictable.I don't think it's so much him wanting to pass those shots up as him just not having the confidence to hit them. Ridnour the other night was just one extreme example of a guy begging him to shoot, even close in.

  I don't know that we should base our judgments on Rondo on one of his first games back from injury when he's clearly not at full speed yet.

[Snakehead]

I think you are crazy.  People wouldn't want to play with Rondo?  The guy looks to pass too much even and he is maybe the leagues best passer. He is a real floor general and a very smart player. He plays extremely hard defense and always hustles.  I think just about every player would love to play alongside Rondo, he would make them look great out there on the floor.

In the future I see the team becoming faster paced and really focusing on running the floor after defensive stops with Rondo as our PG.  The team may be built around him because he is here, but I'm sure we can land a couple stars alongside him that will be our foundation.

It will be interesting to see but I don't think we are in as bad of a situation for the future as some.  I could see us flipping some expiring contracts for valuable players or landing quality free agents after the big three era.

That's a litte insulting. Why does someone who doesn't agree with you have to be CRAZY versus having a different view?

If someone thinks that Free agents are dying to come to Boston to live versus LA or Miami, or Orlando, they are misleading themselves. If a team is a player away from winning a title (like the C's are now which brought in JO and Shaq) then maybe they come. We can only attract 2nd tier free agents even then! Perk will get too much money to be around, so you're really looking at Rondo being the only guy here at that point that is a star type player. It is MUCH more feasible that Rondo goes elsewhere to play with a couple of stars than them coming to frigid Boston to him and a bunch of nobodies.

Because there is literally no possible way to argue the league leader in assists is not a good offensive player.  It's that simple.  To say he isn't is, sorry, crazy.  And to ignore all he has done scoring and not realize that he clearly focuses more on facilitating other's offense instead of looking for his own shot (which, again, is the whole job of a PG) is also not rational.

And players would love, love, love to play with a PG of Rondo's caliber, and especially one that is so focused on facilitating the offense of others.  And a guy who dives face first for loose balls he has no business grabbing? Or gets put back offensive boards over centers? That's just icing. That's just common sense that you would want to play with a guy like that.

Yes, he has shooting defeciencies.  That doesn't make him a bad offensive player at all.

[Edgar]

I am nervous about building a team around rondo.. alone
with one or two young stars that carry the scoring and rebounding
and our old multi  all star starters as backups till they retire
I am pretty ok with it.

[CelticG1]

I do think Rondo should shoot more however.

  I'm somewhat torn on this. If he can hit his outside shot, I'd use it sparingly until teams show they can stop his passing. He could drive more but I don't like to see him get knocked to the ground all the time like he used to.

I just think he should have about 2 or 3 more shot attempts of various types a game. Sometimes from outside, other times from layups he passes out of for goodness knows what reasons.

If anything it would diversify our offense a bit more and make us and him less predictable.I don't think it's so much him wanting to pass those shots up as him just not having the confidence to hit them. Ridnour the other night was just one extreme example of a guy begging him to shoot, even close in.

  I don't know that we shold base our judgments on Rondo on one of his first games back from injury when he's clearly not at full speed yet.

Really? You don't see Rondo shy away from taking that jumper on a regular basis? I'm basing it on his career of passing up jumpers and his inability to hit a short jumper with consistency and confidence.

[Snakehead]

I do think Rondo should shoot more however.

  I'm somewhat torn on this. If he can hit his outside shot, I'd use it sparingly until teams show they can stop his passing. He could drive more but I don't like to see him get knocked to the ground all the time like he used to.

I just think he should have about 2 or 3 more shot attempts of various types a game. Sometimes from outside, other times from layups he passes out of for goodness knows what reasons.

If anything it would diversify our offense a bit more and make us and him less predictable.I don't think it's so much him wanting to pass those shots up as him just not having the confidence to hit them. Ridnour the other night was just one extreme example of a guy begging him to shoot, even close in.

  I don't know that we shold base our judgments on Rondo on one of his first games back from injury when he's clearly not at full speed yet.

Really? You don't see Rondo shy away from taking that jumper on a regular basis? I'm basing it on his career of passing up jumpers and his inability to hit a short jumper with consistency and confidence.

But you didn't say that.  You said "even close in" and notice Rondo took an elbow jumper and hit a floater in key situations.

He shies away from shooting jumpers, sure, but this year he is so busy creating and setting up matchups for the other guys that it is not something you notice or is glaring.  Teams are sagging off of him like you saw with the Lakers for example.  That's simply not the case.

Ridnour did, and like Tim said, it was one game where you could tell Rondo was coming back from injury.  Complete over reaction.  And notice that again, when his team needed the shot and Ridnour was daring him to shoot Rondo hit an elbow jumper and a floater in clutch moments.

And we have seen Rondo be able to get to the rim with his speed even when teams sag off recently... I really can't understand where this is all coming from.  Because he looks to facilitate more?  I couldn't agree less with the criticism and love how great of a floor general he is for us.  Truly outstanding PG play.