I am very nervous about building our team around Rondo in the future

[Vermont Green]

I also worry about him as a guy who relies so much on athleticism, that if he ever does get a serious injury, I am not sure he will be able to recover from it and still be effective.

Rondo certainly does rely on athleticism but his real strength is in his court vision and anticipation.  This vision should still be an asset even as he loses his hops.  I am not saying that this means we should build around him though.  He is a nice player for the foreseeable future but not a franchise cornerstone.

[Cman]

I think the OP is looking too far into the future.

I also think it is a misnomer to talk about "building around" a certain player.  Did Ainge "build around" Paul Pierce?  No, he kept Pierce and traded Walker because Pierce was a better player and because the package he got for Walker was too good to turn down (maybe not so in retrospect, but that's no doubt what Ainge thought at the time).  If Ainge had received a good enough offer for Pierce, he woulda been gone (and almost was in a trade for a draft pick from Portland that would have become Chris Paul, if you believe the stories).

There just isn't much to worry about at this point, because there are so many uncertainties.  Obviously, the immediate goal is to try to get a championship or two more out of the current roster.

[youcanthandlethetruth113]

I love Rondo. I think he is a very special and unique talent and I think everyone can agree that he is the absolute perfect point guard for our team at the moment.

Looking into the future however I can't help but cringe when thinking about building around Rondo. If we replace our big 3 with Dwight Howard and other all-stars than of course I am not worried, but more than likely that won't happen and I don't know if Rondo will be able to carry our team enough during the post Big 3 era to attract some of these stars.

I feel like just about every elite point guard that has ever played the game was somewhat of a scorer. Since Rondo has 4 HOF's on the team now he doesn't need to do that, but once they are gone will Rondo really be able to score consistently? He does not have a jumper, is a terrible free throw shooter and any improvements he has made in these categories have been very minimal.

The only point guard that I can think of that wasn't much of a scorer (and I'm not even completely positive on this) is/was Jason Kidd. He was able to elevate somewhat mediocre to good talent on his team and turn the Nets into a legit team in the NBA.

Can and will Rondo be the real future of our team? Does he have enough to be a real superstar in the league? Post big 3 what do people see Rondo being like? Can he be the next J kidd? Will he be more? These are some sobering thoughts I've been having while thinking about the future

Once the Big 3 retire Rondo will certainly look to be more aggressive on the offensive end. That's a guarantee.

[Snakehead]

I think you are crazy.  People wouldn't want to play with Rondo?  The guy looks to pass too much even and he is maybe the leagues best passer. He is a real floor general and a very smart player. He plays extremely hard defense and always hustles.  I think just about every player would love to play alongside Rondo, he would make them look great out there on the floor.

In the future I see the team becoming faster paced and really focusing on running the floor after defensive stops with Rondo as our PG.  The team may be built around him because he is here, but I'm sure we can land a couple stars alongside him that will be our foundation.

It will be interesting to see but I don't think we are in as bad of a situation for the future as some.  I could see us flipping some expiring contracts for valuable players or landing quality free agents after the big three era.

[EJPLAYA]

You build around a superstar, not a PG. Especially when they are limited in their abilities.

  How many players in the history of the league weren't limited in their abilities?

All the ones who you should actually look at building around. It's one thing to be somewhat limited in your abilities. It's another thing to be completely innefective at a major part of the game. (offense. although he seems to be getting a bit better this year with that after a disastrous last year)

TP for bringing up Detroit. The problem is that Isaiah had no weaknesses. He was one of the top few PG's in NBA history. If Rondo was at that level I'd agree that we should try and build around him. He isn't though nor will ever be (never will be a great offensive player), so as you said in your other post he is a "piece" rather than someone to build around.

As solid as he is, I truly believe that had he not been on the Celtics, and with the Big Three, he would have been a mediocre PG in this league. I think they have helped him develop into more than that, but his deficiencies would have held him back on a lottery team.

[Snakehead]

You build around a superstar, not a PG. Especially when they are limited in their abilities.

  How many players in the history of the league weren't limited in their abilities?

All the ones who you should actually look at building around. It's one thing to be somewhat limited in your abilities. It's another thing to be completely innefective at a major part of the game. (offense. although he seems to be getting a bit better this year with that after a disastrous last year)

TP for bringing up Detroit. The problem is that Isaiah had no weaknesses. He was one of the top few PG's in NBA history. If Rondo was at that level I'd agree that we should try and build around him. He isn't though nor will ever be (never will be a great offensive player), so as you said in your other post he is a "piece" rather than someone to build around.

As solid as he is, I truly believe that had he not been on the Celtics, and with the Big Three, he would have been a mediocre PG in this league. I think they have helped him develop into more than that, but his deficiencies would have held him back on a lottery team.

Dude, he is ineffective on offense?  What do you mean?  Have you missed out on his scoring and league leading assists?  I almost want to post stats or something but I just don't even underrsatnd how you could say he is "ineffective" on offense.  Just because he isn't always aggressive looking to score doesn't mean he is "ineffecitve".  For one he runs the entire offense and distributes the basketball as well as any PG in the NBA and second, if he didn't have so many great scorers to pass to he would probably just look to score more.

We have seen him get to the rim easily plenty of times so sayin he is "ineffective" at scoring is just false and frankly completely bewildering. 

Passing is an offensive skill.  Assists are an offensive stat.  If a guy leads the league in assists he is far, FAR, from an "ineffective" player on offense.  When Steve Nash for example has a game where he gets 16 assists and only scores 8 points shooting a good percentage do you say "Well, not a very good offensive game from him".  No.  That would be crazy.

Can't understand how a PG does so well passing the ball, his primary job, and you say he is not good on offense.

[BballTim]

You build around a superstar, not a PG. Especially when they are limited in their abilities.

  How many players in the history of the league weren't limited in their abilities?

All the ones who you should actually look at building around. It's one thing to be somewhat limited in your abilities. It's another thing to be completely innefective at a major part of the game. (offense. although he seems to be getting a bit better this year with that after a disastrous last year)

  I honestly can't believe anyone who's watched the Celts this year would ever claim that Rondo's completely ineffective on offense. There's a lot more going on out there than people shooting. The ball doesn't magically appear in just the right spot at just the right time when PP or RA get ready to shoot those threes, and the ball doesn't randomly end up near the rim when KG and Shaq are standing under the basket. And have you ever seen Rondo direct those guys around on the court? That's not for a group photo, he's creating mismatches and getting us good looks at the basket.

  And how exactly was he "disastrous" on offense last year? He was among the league leaders in assists and among the leading point guards in fg%, arguably the best at getting to the rim. He obviously wasn't the best offensive pg in the league but I'd hardly label him a disaster.

TP for bringing up Detroit. The problem is that Isaiah had no weaknesses. He was one of the top few PG's in NBA history. If Rondo was at that level I'd agree that we should try and build around him. He isn't though nor will ever be (never will be a great offensive player), so as you said in your other post he is a "piece" rather than someone to build around.

  Rondo might not be another Isaiah, but then PP wasn't exactly a Larry Bird in 07 when we traded for Ray and KG. It's the same concept. Does calling PP a piece or saying we built around him change the results of the last three seasons?

As solid as he is, I truly believe that had he not been on the Celtics, and with the Big Three, he would have been a mediocre PG in this league. I think they have helped him develop into more than that, but his deficiencies would have held him back on a lottery team.

  And I think that the Rondo we'd have seen would be closer to what we've gotten in the playoffs the last two years (17/10/10 and 16/6/9). It's generally been the case that his numbers go up whenever any of the big three were out of the lineup or playing hurt. Clearly he's capable of scoring more than he does, and clearly he's capable of dominating playoff games.

[Birdbrain]

I love Rondo. I think he is a very special and unique talent and I think everyone can agree that he is the absolute perfect point guard for our team at the moment.

Looking into the future however I can't help but cringe when thinking about building around Rondo. If we replace our big 3 with Dwight Howard and other all-stars than of course I am not worried, but more than likely that won't happen and I don't know if Rondo will be able to carry our team enough during the post Big 3 era to attract some of these stars.

I feel like just about every elite point guard that has ever played the game was somewhat of a scorer. Since Rondo has 4 HOF's on the team now he doesn't need to do that, but once they are gone will Rondo really be able to score consistently? He does not have a jumper, is a terrible free throw shooter and any improvements he has made in these categories have been very minimal.

The only point guard that I can think of that wasn't much of a scorer (and I'm not even completely positive on this) is/was Jason Kidd. He was able to elevate somewhat mediocre to good talent on his team and turn the Nets into a legit team in the NBA.

Can and will Rondo be the real future of our team? Does he have enough to be a real superstar in the league? Post big 3 what do people see Rondo being like? Can he be the next J kidd? Will he be more? These are some sobering thoughts I've been having while thinking about the future

Good point about him not shooting FTs well.  Of course I don't consider him being a poor FT shooter very important.

[davemonsterband]

I don't really believe you're assessing him properly. Out of the NBA womb he's been bred to do nothing but distribute and make himself the 4th, at best, option. He's never had a reason to switch his mentality, while he's with a team capable of grabbing another ring there's no reason for him to change his game.

This season, when healthy, he's been the MVP of the league for maximizing that role. Virtually every PG and slasher hits a time and age in his career where settles down, plays reserved, settles for the baby j and lets things unfold. And quite honestly, like Steve Nash, I doubt he'll ever be put in a situation where he has to be a primary scorer. I'd compare him to an Avery Johnson, he had a very fulfilling career. I'm fully confident in Rondo. He's young and reckless. He'll come around. With the cap space he's going to see be freed up in front of him in the years to come it's pretty likely he'll more feast than famine. I don't think he's an idiot, he's bound to slow down, get under control and be more cerebral with age. Danny pulls off draft day miracles, when the time comes I'm not worried about cap space.

There'll never be a rebuild with Danny in town, he said he won't pull the Larry keep-him-around-til-he's-lost-trade-value on Paul, Ray and Kev, I believe him.

[EJPLAYA]

I think you are crazy.  People wouldn't want to play with Rondo?  The guy looks to pass too much even and he is maybe the leagues best passer. He is a real floor general and a very smart player. He plays extremely hard defense and always hustles.  I think just about every player would love to play alongside Rondo, he would make them look great out there on the floor.

In the future I see the team becoming faster paced and really focusing on running the floor after defensive stops with Rondo as our PG.  The team may be built around him because he is here, but I'm sure we can land a couple stars alongside him that will be our foundation.

It will be interesting to see but I don't think we are in as bad of a situation for the future as some.  I could see us flipping some expiring contracts for valuable players or landing quality free agents after the big three era.

That's a litte insulting. Why does someone who doesn't agree with you have to be CRAZY versus having a different view?

If someone thinks that Free agents are dying to come to Boston to live versus LA or Miami, or Orlando, they are misleading themselves. If a team is a player away from winning a title (like the C's are now which brought in JO and Shaq) then maybe they come. We can only attract 2nd tier free agents even then! Perk will get too much money to be around, so you're really looking at Rondo being the only guy here at that point that is a star type player. It is MUCH more feasible that Rondo goes elsewhere to play with a couple of stars than them coming to frigid Boston to him and a bunch of nobodies.

[EJPLAYA]

You build around a superstar, not a PG. Especially when they are limited in their abilities.

  How many players in the history of the league weren't limited in their abilities?

All the ones who you should actually look at building around. It's one thing to be somewhat limited in your abilities. It's another thing to be completely innefective at a major part of the game. (offense. although he seems to be getting a bit better this year with that after a disastrous last year)

  I honestly can't believe anyone who's watched the Celts this year would ever claim that Rondo's completely ineffective on offense. There's a lot more going on out there than people shooting. The ball doesn't magically appear in just the right spot at just the right time when PP or RA get ready to shoot those threes, and the ball doesn't randomly end up near the rim when KG and Shaq are standing under the basket. And have you ever seen Rondo direct those guys around on the court? That's not for a group photo, he's creating mismatches and getting us good looks at the basket.

  And how exactly was he "disastrous" on offense last year? He was among the league leaders in assists and among the leading point guards in fg%, arguably the best at getting to the rim. He obviously wasn't the best offensive pg in the league but I'd hardly label him a disaster.

TP for bringing up Detroit. The problem is that Isaiah had no weaknesses. He was one of the top few PG's in NBA history. If Rondo was at that level I'd agree that we should try and build around him. He isn't though nor will ever be (never will be a great offensive player), so as you said in your other post he is a "piece" rather than someone to build around.

  Rondo might not be another Isaiah, but then PP wasn't exactly a Larry Bird in 07 when we traded for Ray and KG. It's the same concept. Does calling PP a piece or saying we built around him change the results of the last three seasons?

As solid as he is, I truly believe that had he not been on the Celtics, and with the Big Three, he would have been a mediocre PG in this league. I think they have helped him develop into more than that, but his deficiencies would have held him back on a lottery team.

  And I think that the Rondo we'd have seen would be closer to what we've gotten in the playoffs the last two years (17/10/10 and 16/6/9). It's generally been the case that his numbers go up whenever any of the big three were out of the lineup or playing hurt. Clearly he's capable of scoring more than he does, and clearly he's capable of dominating playoff games.

You're misquoting what I was saying. I said that he was disastrous shooting last year. Not offense as a whole. I also said that he is an effective PG passing the ball to Hall of Fame players, however pay attention to how he looks when he is out there with the second unit. He looks mediocre. Not terrible, just okay. He is a horrid free throw shooter and that also hurts them. I like Rondo a lot and think he's a great piece on a championship team. I just think his struggle with shooting the ball doesn't allow him to be a great player on a mediocre squad. He's going to have to go and jooin someone that is a star to be effective at that level. We aren't going to attract that level guy in free agency.

[CelticG1]

Not all offense is based on being a good jump shooter but has there really ever been as bad a PG shooter as Rondo? Can Rondo really pick up the scoring slack when the Big 3 leave? I've seen him do it in spurts, short spurts, but I don't think he can consistently score like some of these other point guards in the league.

Rondo could be the best point guard in the league right now but he could easily be the 6th best as well. Paul, Williams, Nash, Rose, Westbrook could all be rated higher than him.

Some of these guys (Rose and Westbrook) are looked at as poor shooters but they are light years ahead of Rondo and I feel like they have improved their shooting dramatically each year.

I just feel like Rondo is settling right now. He had some quote a while back about saying he doesn't need to have a jump shot because he can get to the rim whenever he wants.

We're begging this guy to develop that elbow jumper when really that should be something Perk needs to develop. Rondo should have already developed that in high school/college and maybe be working on his 3 point range or something.

I love watching Rondo play for this team and at times I think he is our MVP (along with KG and Pierce) but I can't help but worry that those guys will be gone before he knows it and he's still looking to dish to the hall of famers

[BballTim]

You build around a superstar, not a PG. Especially when they are limited in their abilities.

  How many players in the history of the league weren't limited in their abilities?

All the ones who you should actually look at building around. It's one thing to be somewhat limited in your abilities. It's another thing to be completely innefective at a major part of the game. (offense. although he seems to be getting a bit better this year with that after a disastrous last year)

  I honestly can't believe anyone who's watched the Celts this year would ever claim that Rondo's completely ineffective on offense. There's a lot more going on out there than people shooting. The ball doesn't magically appear in just the right spot at just the right time when PP or RA get ready to shoot those threes, and the ball doesn't randomly end up near the rim when KG and Shaq are standing under the basket. And have you ever seen Rondo direct those guys around on the court? That's not for a group photo, he's creating mismatches and getting us good looks at the basket.

  And how exactly was he "disastrous" on offense last year? He was among the league leaders in assists and among the leading point guards in fg%, arguably the best at getting to the rim. He obviously wasn't the best offensive pg in the league but I'd hardly label him a disaster.

TP for bringing up Detroit. The problem is that Isaiah had no weaknesses. He was one of the top few PG's in NBA history. If Rondo was at that level I'd agree that we should try and build around him. He isn't though nor will ever be (never will be a great offensive player), so as you said in your other post he is a "piece" rather than someone to build around.

  Rondo might not be another Isaiah, but then PP wasn't exactly a Larry Bird in 07 when we traded for Ray and KG. It's the same concept. Does calling PP a piece or saying we built around him change the results of the last three seasons?

As solid as he is, I truly believe that had he not been on the Celtics, and with the Big Three, he would have been a mediocre PG in this league. I think they have helped him develop into more than that, but his deficiencies would have held him back on a lottery team.

  And I think that the Rondo we'd have seen would be closer to what we've gotten in the playoffs the last two years (17/10/10 and 16/6/9). It's generally been the case that his numbers go up whenever any of the big three were out of the lineup or playing hurt. Clearly he's capable of scoring more than he does, and clearly he's capable of dominating playoff games.

You're misquoting what I was saying. I said that he was disastrous shooting last year. Not offense as a whole. I also said that he is an effective PG passing the ball to Hall of Fame players, however pay attention to how he looks when he is out there with the second unit. He looks mediocre. Not terrible, just okay. He is a horrid free throw shooter and that also hurts them. I like Rondo a lot and think he's a great piece on a championship team. I just think his struggle with shooting the ball doesn't allow him to be a great player on a mediocre squad. He's going to have to go and jooin someone that is a star to be effective at that level. We aren't going to attract that level guy in free agency.

  I didn't misquote you: "It's another thing to be completely innefective at a major part of the game. (offense" other than saying ineffective instead of completely ineffective. And it's worth noting that he was among the best point guards in fg% last year. As for him looking not so great with the second unit, I don't think PP or RA or KG or anyone else are as effective playing with a bunch of scrubs.

  What nba roster could you possibly put him on where the other four starters are no better than Nate/Quis/Baby/Erden? Most nba teams have players that can run with Rondo on the break. Most nba teams have players on their rosters that can hit outside shots or finish shots under the basket. Put him on a team like that nad he'll do fine. Put him on a D league roster against nba teams and, you're right, he'll struggle.

[birdwatcher]

Rondo is one of the best passing PG in the game. Who wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of a Rondo pass? He may not score a ton, or even look to score, but he does make everyone around him better. The C's dropped slowly during his absence and has recently shot back up (if you look game to game). He will get you the ball in the spots you want, increase your fg%, possibly your scoring avg and does everything else in the game well. Not wanting to build around Rondo is like not wanting to build around Tom Brady cause he doesn't throw the long ball well. Who cares? Great football teams are built around great defenses and a great QB. Rondo is both, so what's there to worry about?

[BballTim]

Not all offense is based on being a good jump shooter but has there really ever been as bad a PG shooter as Rondo? Can Rondo really pick up the scoring slack when the Big 3 leave? I've seen him do it in spurts, short spurts, but I don't think he can consistently score like some of these other point guards in the league.

Rondo could be the best point guard in the league right now but he could easily be the 6th best as well. Paul, Williams, Nash, Rose, Westbrook could all be rated higher than him.

Some of these guys (Rose and Westbrook) are looked at as poor shooters but they are light years ahead of Rondo and I feel like they have improved their shooting dramatically each year.

I just feel like Rondo is settling right now. He had some quote a while back about saying he doesn't need to have a jump shot because he can get to the rim whenever he wants.

We're begging this guy to develop that elbow jumper when really that should be something Perk needs to develop. Rondo should have already developed that in high school/college and maybe be working on his 3 point range or something.

I love watching Rondo play for this team and at times I think he is our MVP (along with KG and Pierce) but I can't help but worry that those guys will be gone before he knows it and he's still looking to dish to the hall of famers

  Rondo's hitting 45% of his 16-23 foot jumpers when the average pg hits about 38% of them. How is that not developing?