Baby went to the bottom of my favorite Celtic list today

[Fafnir]

He took a VERY BAD shot against the Hornets that might have cost us the game.  Who knows what ramficiations that will have when the season ends and the seedings are set.  But for one play he goes to the bottom? 

For all those people dumping on Marquis earlier this year, is he still on the bottom now?

Nope.  I thought PP was more of a reason for the loss than Davis.  PP did absolutely nothing in the 4th quarter to bring home the win.  He admitted as much, saying he "didn't come to play."  Davis at least tried, but failed miserably.  He's not KG or the superstar Pierce is.  Pierce was supposed to step up.

I can't put more blame on him than Glen. Davis only had one defensive rebound, (4 overall) and took 14 shots, making only four. His 3 point shot alone deserves some serious scorn.

I'm glad both Davis and Pierce bounced back yesterday.

[Brendan]

I said this in another thread, but BBD is who we (I) thought he is. He's a role player, with KG out and the Centers still a bit wounded, he tried to step up and failed... similar to Nate. When BBD is out there letting others create offense for him and passing to higher percentage shots, hustling for boards, taking the longer J's only when its the best the team can get, and throwing his weight around, he's a good role player. When he's looking for his long 2 or even a 3 pt jump shot, not good.

Of the bench guys, he's the least replaceable though.

[Chris]

I said this in another thread, but BBD is who we (I) thought he is. He's a role player, with KG out and the Centers still a bit wounded, he tried to step up and failed... similar to Nate. When BBD is out there letting others create offense for him and passing to higher percentage shots, hustling for boards, taking the longer J's only when its the best the team can get, and throwing his weight around, he's a good role player. When he's looking for his long 2 or even a 3 pt jump shot, not good.

Of the bench guys, he's the least replaceable though.

Agree with all of this.  Even the least replacable part, not because of his talent really, but because he has become so good within the system.  We could certainly find another energy guy like him, who can bring similar things...but the chance of them learning the system to be anywhere near as effective as he is in midseason is really slim. 

He really is a perfect role player for this team, and compliments the rest of the core (when they are healthy) so well.  But wow is he painful to watch when he is asked to take on a bigger role.

[Mike-Dub]

Didn't catch yesterday's game yet, but I was at the game Friday and honestly no one played a good game against the Hornets except Marquis and Luke. 

I'm not making excuses for the horrible shot by Baby and his pouting after the game, but just about no one played well. 

[Mike-Dub]

He took a VERY BAD shot against the Hornets that might have cost us the game.  Who knows what ramficiations that will have when the season ends and the seedings are set.  But for one play he goes to the bottom? 

For all those people dumping on Marquis earlier this year, is he still on the bottom now?

Nope.  I thought PP was more of a reason for the loss than Davis.  PP did absolutely nothing in the 4th quarter to bring home the win.  He admitted as much, saying he "didn't come to play."  Davis at least tried, but failed miserably.  He's not KG or the superstar Pierce is.  Pierce was supposed to step up.

I can't put more blame on him than Glen. Davis only had one defensive rebound, (4 overall) and took 14 shots, making only four. His 3 point shot alone deserves some serious scorn.

I'm glad both Davis and Pierce bounced back yesterday.

Pierce was the player who I noticed played horrible against the Hornets too.  Glad both bounced back.

[Spilling Green Dye]

Just had a thought.  Anyone else think Baby might be working on his range?  A lot of his shots have seemingly been out of his range and up to a few games ago he was making those shots.  I just remember a couple of years ago when fans were hating on him for taking all those jumpers in the regular season.  Then we find out Doc wanted him taking those jumpers and it paid off in the postseason.  

I just wonder if he is working on his range.  I know some of the shots have been bad, but for the most part, they have been good shots in the flow, he's just seemingly taking too many long range ones.  It just seems that every year he is working on something.

He's been working on his range, but too far out.

For the season he's currently shooting jumpshots 65% of the time while making just below 40% of them (.397 to be exact).  What I'm getting at is that if he's going to shoot a 40% fg jump shot (@ 65% of all of his shots), then he shouldn't be taking 14 shots a game!  Even force feeding it to Shaq, or letting Pierce go ISO, would yield a better return. 

Ultimately I think 'working on his range' is a byproduct of him not being able to post people up often.  And teams have wised up as to his rotations that used to get high quality shots down low.  The ball goes through Davis a lot now, and I'd like for his assists to continue to be high as a result.  I'm hoping he shoots around 8 shots a game and gets about 6 to 7 assists. 

[Spilling Green Dye]

Ok I just looked it up.  Below are the 4 worst "jump shooters" on the team:

4) Glen Davis:  39.7%
3) Semih Erden: 37.5%
2) J. O'Neal:   36.7%
1) M. Daniels:  35.7%

While I'm not expecting any of those 4 players to be KG (jumpshot @ 49.0%), below 40% doesn't cut it to me.. especially since most of these shots are wide open.  I could see once in awhile shooting a 'J', but the offense shouldn't be designed for this at all. 

I hope Glen keeps working on his range, but his current abilities do not warrant so many jumpers. 

[Chris]

Ok I just looked it up.  Below are the 4 worst "jump shooters" on the team:

4) Glen Davis:  39.7%
3) Semih Erden: 37.5%
2) J. O'Neal:   36.7%
1) M. Daniels:  35.7%

While I'm not expecting any of those 4 players to be KG (jumpshot @ 49.0%), below 40% doesn't cut it to me.. especially since most of these shots are wide open.  I could see once in awhile shooting a 'J', but the offense shouldn't be designed for this at all. 

I hope Glen keeps working on his range, but his current abilities do not warrant so many jumpers. 

My problem with his jumper is that in his head, his range has expanded about 5 feet further than it was in the past...when it actually hasn't.  If he continues sticking with the 15-18 foot jumpers, then he is great, but once he steps out beyond that, which is happening more and more, he is in trouble. 

[Snakehead]

Ok I just looked it up.  Below are the 4 worst "jump shooters" on the team:

4) Glen Davis:  39.7%
3) Semih Erden: 37.5%
2) J. O'Neal:   36.7%
1) M. Daniels:  35.7%

While I'm not expecting any of those 4 players to be KG (jumpshot @ 49.0%), below 40% doesn't cut it to me.. especially since most of these shots are wide open.  I could see once in awhile shooting a 'J', but the offense shouldn't be designed for this at all. 

I hope Glen keeps working on his range, but his current abilities do not warrant so many jumpers. 

My problem with his jumper is that in his head, his range has expanded about 5 feet further than it was in the past...when it actually hasn't.  If he continues sticking with the 15-18 foot jumpers, then he is great, but once he steps out beyond that, which is happening more and more, he is in trouble. 

You are right on Chris.  Also I hate his little fall away jumpers and spin move or step back jumpers. Sometimes he combines all three moves on one play and I can't stand it, who does he think he is? Melo?

Basically any time he tries to get too fancy.  He simply doesn't have the length, jumping ability, and agility to make use of these moves and shots in an effective way.  KG he is not, despite his best imitations. He should just be knocking down the 15-18 footer from a spot up and that's it.

[JerseyKid.]

Ok I just looked it up.  Below are the 4 worst "jump shooters" on the team:

4) Glen Davis:  39.7%
3) Semih Erden: 37.5%
2) J. O'Neal:   36.7%
1) M. Daniels:  35.7%

While I'm not expecting any of those 4 players to be KG (jumpshot @ 49.0%), below 40% doesn't cut it to me.. especially since most of these shots are wide open.  I could see once in awhile shooting a 'J', but the offense shouldn't be designed for this at all. 

I hope Glen keeps working on his range, but his current abilities do not warrant so many jumpers. 

My problem with his jumper is that in his head, his range has expanded about 5 feet further than it was in the past...when it actually hasn't.  If he continues sticking with the 15-18 foot jumpers, then he is great, but once he steps out beyond that, which is happening more and more, he is in trouble. 

You are right on Chris.  Also I hate his little fall away jumpers and spin move or step back jumpers. Sometimes he combines all three and I can't stand it, who does he think he is Melo?

Basically any time he tries to get too fancy.  He simply doesn't have the length, jumping ability, and agility to make use of these moves and shots in an effective way.  KG he is not, despite his best imitations. He should just be knocking down the 15-18 footer from a spot up and that's it.

That sums up exactly what i was trying to say myself. The spin move fade aways are for kobe, not big baby.

[Who]

Ok I just looked it up.  Below are the 4 worst "jump shooters" on the team:

4) Glen Davis:  39.7%
3) Semih Erden: 37.5%
2) J. O'Neal:   36.7%
1) M. Daniels:  35.7%

While I'm not expecting any of those 4 players to be KG (jumpshot @ 49.0%), below 40% doesn't cut it to me.. especially since most of these shots are wide open.  I could see once in awhile shooting a 'J', but the offense shouldn't be designed for this at all. 

I hope Glen keeps working on his range, but his current abilities do not warrant so many jumpers. 

My problem with his jumper is that in his head, his range has expanded about 5 feet further than it was in the past...when it actually hasn't.  If he continues sticking with the 15-18 foot jumpers, then he is great, but once he steps out beyond that, which is happening more and more, he is in trouble. 

I am fine with BBD stepping out to 20-21 feet. I think he has that shot in his arsenal.

What I don't like is when he takes another step out ... to 22-23 feet ... I hate seeing him take that jumper.

[CelticG1]

Ok I just looked it up.  Below are the 4 worst "jump shooters" on the team:

4) Glen Davis:  39.7%
3) Semih Erden: 37.5%
2) J. O'Neal:   36.7%
1) M. Daniels:  35.7%

While I'm not expecting any of those 4 players to be KG (jumpshot @ 49.0%), below 40% doesn't cut it to me.. especially since most of these shots are wide open.  I could see once in awhile shooting a 'J', but the offense shouldn't be designed for this at all. 

I hope Glen keeps working on his range, but his current abilities do not warrant so many jumpers. 

My problem with his jumper is that in his head, his range has expanded about 5 feet further than it was in the past...when it actually hasn't.  If he continues sticking with the 15-18 foot jumpers, then he is great, but once he steps out beyond that, which is happening more and more, he is in trouble. 

You are right on Chris.  Also I hate his little fall away jumpers and spin move or step back jumpers. Sometimes he combines all three moves on one play and I can't stand it, who does he think he is Melo?

Basically any time he tries to get too fancy.  He simply doesn't have the length, jumping ability, and agility to make use of these moves and shots in an effective way.  KG he is not, despite his best imitations. He should just be knocking down the 15-18 footer from a spot up and that's it.

He has been expanding his range as of late. I'm sure he knocks them down in practice but now that he tries to incorporate during the game it's just not the same. I would like him to stick to his current range but there's no doubt that in a couple years he will be knocking down the "long 2"

[CelticG1]

Ok I just looked it up.  Below are the 4 worst "jump shooters" on the team:

4) Glen Davis:  39.7%
3) Semih Erden: 37.5%
2) J. O'Neal:   36.7%
1) M. Daniels:  35.7%

While I'm not expecting any of those 4 players to be KG (jumpshot @ 49.0%), below 40% doesn't cut it to me.. especially since most of these shots are wide open.  I could see once in awhile shooting a 'J', but the offense shouldn't be designed for this at all. 

I hope Glen keeps working on his range, but his current abilities do not warrant so many jumpers. 

My problem with his jumper is that in his head, his range has expanded about 5 feet further than it was in the past...when it actually hasn't.  If he continues sticking with the 15-18 foot jumpers, then he is great, but once he steps out beyond that, which is happening more and more, he is in trouble. 

You are right on Chris.  Also I hate his little fall away jumpers and spin move or step back jumpers. Sometimes he combines all three and I can't stand it, who does he think he is Melo?

Basically any time he tries to get too fancy.  He simply doesn't have the length, jumping ability, and agility to make use of these moves and shots in an effective way.  KG he is not, despite his best imitations. He should just be knocking down the 15-18 footer from a spot up and that's it.

That sums up exactly what i was trying to say myself. The spin move fade aways are for kobe, not big baby.

Maybe I'm thinking of something different but I actually like his fadeaway jumper. He's so big that he can just kind of clear space for himself to get a fairly open look, even on taller guys. Plus he is usually closer to the basket, more to his range.

[Snakehead]

Ok I just looked it up.  Below are the 4 worst "jump shooters" on the team:

4) Glen Davis:  39.7%
3) Semih Erden: 37.5%
2) J. O'Neal:   36.7%
1) M. Daniels:  35.7%

While I'm not expecting any of those 4 players to be KG (jumpshot @ 49.0%), below 40% doesn't cut it to me.. especially since most of these shots are wide open.  I could see once in awhile shooting a 'J', but the offense shouldn't be designed for this at all. 

I hope Glen keeps working on his range, but his current abilities do not warrant so many jumpers. 

My problem with his jumper is that in his head, his range has expanded about 5 feet further than it was in the past...when it actually hasn't.  If he continues sticking with the 15-18 foot jumpers, then he is great, but once he steps out beyond that, which is happening more and more, he is in trouble. 

You are right on Chris.  Also I hate his little fall away jumpers and spin move or step back jumpers. Sometimes he combines all three and I can't stand it, who does he think he is Melo?

Basically any time he tries to get too fancy.  He simply doesn't have the length, jumping ability, and agility to make use of these moves and shots in an effective way.  KG he is not, despite his best imitations. He should just be knocking down the 15-18 footer from a spot up and that's it.

That sums up exactly what i was trying to say myself. The spin move fade aways are for kobe, not big baby.

Maybe I'm thinking of something different but I actually like his fadeaway jumper. He's so big that he can just kind of clear space for himself to get a fairly open look, even on taller guys. Plus he is usually closer to the basket, more to his range.

Well if he is in the paint that is one thing but he has taken plenty of midrange fall aways this season and they are garbage.  Fadeaways are effective for a lot of players who are long and can jump because they can arc back and shoot over outstretched hands.  Big Baby is not long and he can't jump, so mostly it's just a bad shot.

If anything he should use his size to clear space with more physical moves.  If he was going to take a fadaway type shot, he should take one more like Pierce's shots where he lowers his shoulder and puts it into the defenders chest, clearing some space and neutralizing the defenders ability to jump to challenge the shot, and then leans back and shoots over with a not full fadaway shot, but a leaning back shot (with the signature Pierce leg kick). 

As of right now he usually takes fadaways off step backs similar to the ones Melo does and back to the basket pivot moves with fakes like KG does.  And both of those style of shots are simply not shots he should be taking.  His lack of length and agility makes the movements pointless.

And a lot of times he does all these moves off the dribble, which is a whole different problem.  If he is making any moves off the dribble it should be a dribble or two to open space for a simple jumper or to get in the paint and take a hook shot or something of that type, not a spin to fadaway or step back jumper.

His wide shoulders and bulk should make him a very good hook shooter for example.  And that would help negate some of his size issues, allowing him to body bigger players and negate their length by shooting hooks.  But he has gone so jumper crazy that he doesn't work or seem to care about inside type shots.  I'm all for a big knocking down a 15-18 footer, but at some point you have to stop with the jumpers and focus and work on your paint shots and moves.  A spin to fadaway or step back will never be BBD's most effective shot and if he is working on that instead of his post play he is wasting his time and will not really improve as a player.

[guava_wrench]

Ok I just looked it up.  Below are the 4 worst "jump shooters" on the team:

4) Glen Davis:  39.7%
3) Semih Erden: 37.5%
2) J. O'Neal:   36.7%
1) M. Daniels:  35.7%

While I'm not expecting any of those 4 players to be KG (jumpshot @ 49.0%), below 40% doesn't cut it to me.. especially since most of these shots are wide open.  I could see once in awhile shooting a 'J', but the offense shouldn't be designed for this at all. 

I hope Glen keeps working on his range, but his current abilities do not warrant so many jumpers. 

My problem with his jumper is that in his head, his range has expanded about 5 feet further than it was in the past...when it actually hasn't.  If he continues sticking with the 15-18 foot jumpers, then he is great, but once he steps out beyond that, which is happening more and more, he is in trouble. 

You are right on Chris.  Also I hate his little fall away jumpers and spin move or step back jumpers. Sometimes he combines all three moves on one play and I can't stand it, who does he think he is Melo?

Basically any time he tries to get too fancy.  He simply doesn't have the length, jumping ability, and agility to make use of these moves and shots in an effective way.  KG he is not, despite his best imitations. He should just be knocking down the 15-18 footer from a spot up and that's it.

He has been expanding his range as of late. I'm sure he knocks them down in practice but now that he tries to incorporate during the game it's just not the same. I would like him to stick to his current range but there's no doubt that in a couple years he will be knocking down the "long 2"

I have to agree. I'm not a fan of how he has extended his range.