Time for Rudy Fernandez again?

[RJ87]

I think the money move is trading Nate and Daniels for a SF, especially one that can play a small PF spot. West seems on pace to heal quickly and they can go with AB in the meantime.

Rondo / AB
Ray / Pierce / AB
Pierce / (SF new guy)
KG / Baby / (SF new guy)
Shaq / Baby / Semi

Adding a 2 guard doesn't help the bench - the problems are in the front court. I think if they could get a combo forward that would be best, a big SF for the matchups where Ray is over matched at SF, and short term depth in the front court.

Then if everyone gets healthy the depth chart looks like:

Rondo / AB
Ray / West / Wafer
Pierce / SF
KG / Baby / Harangody
Shaq / Perk / JO / Semi

And the rotation is probably the starters, plus West and the new SF, Baby and whichever of the two bench centers is healthier / playing better.

If your not improving the lineup cohesion - I wouldn't rock the boat from a chemistry stand point. Plus Rudy doesn't have the versatility to get enough PT off the bench (bad option at PG and SF.) Mayo is better, especially if you have West and him as the two backup wings, you get a bit more size and defensive tenacity, still there would be times when your reserves are over matched a fair amount size wise at the wings.

Avery Bradley is not going to be a main backup PG this season if management can help it. It's way too soon, all indications are that they're going to bring him along slowly and give him some time to develop. Taking over the backup PG duties on a championship contender is placing a lot of pressure on him even if it's just until Delonte comes back. Some spot minutes here and there are one thing, but I just don't see Doc and the staff throwing him out there for extended minutes at this point unless there's legitimately no other option.

[StartOrien]

I'd guess that the Grizzlies could get a better offer from at least a dozen teams in the league.

Probably.


But if I were the Celtics, I would hold onto my chips until that happens. 

I'd do the same, but don't think that there's even a tenth of a chance we'd land OJ Mayo. With the team rolling the way it has lately, I wouldn't make a move that wasn't anything less than an absolute slam dunk. I'm a huge Rudy Fernandez believer, but I don't think he's enough of a sure-thing to bother making a trade for at this point.

If all is takes is Wafer and a 1st, that's pretty close to a slam dunk.  I can't imagine any trade where Boston would have to give up less to get anyone of value.  I'd prefer someone with enough strength to play the 3 for those games when Marquis vanishes, but I'm not sure a guy like that is getable.

Mike

I think this summer showed enough that Rudy probably isn't going back to Europe anytime soon. However, he still is a pretty moody player who'd have a tough time getting anywhere near the minutes he'd want. He's 23+ minutes on his career and he'd be replacing Von Wafer's 6.5 minutes (skewed high b/c of some blowouts). I don't think there's enough minutes to keep him happy/productive.

[Tai]

I would wait.


There is talk that Mayo may be available.


Save the Wafer, 1st and (something else) to trade for Mayo, the future replacement for Ray. 

I know Chris Wallace is a terrible GM. But do you really think he would trade one of his top players for Von Wafer?

Well, yes.


Wafer, Bradley, Daniels and a 1st. 


They are looking to move him because they do not want to have to pay him.  Wafer they waive (save money).  Daniels is in his last year (no future money).  Bradley and a 1st are cheap building blocks towards the future. 


Of course the Celtics would then have to make a deal to get a new SF.  (A deal with Nate once West is back most likely)

That's a lot of overhaul of a deep bench for OJ Mayo. I would do Wafer, bradley and a first but keep Marquis for two reasons. 1. That combined value of the first is more than OJ Mayo. 2. The first trade necessitates the second one which would only further damage the team. Especially when you consider that OJ Mayo doesn't bring much more to the C's than nate does.

Then the money doesn't work.

I think Mayo is much better then Nate. 

Having watched the Grizzlies the past two years, OJ really doesn't give you much more than the ability to score in bunches. He doesn't play D and he can't run an offense. Nate at least is a pest on D and can step in and run this offense.

Mayo is a true SG that shoots at a high percentage with the tools to be a good team defender. 


Nate is an undersized SG that makes the most of his talent.


Mayo can be a top line starter next to Rondo.  (once Ray retires or slows down to a point where he best serves the team as a gunner off the bench)

Nate can never be more then Rondo's backup on the Celtics. 

Nate could never be more than Rondo's backup? Fair enough.

But what was he brought back to do? Be Rondo's backup.

When healthy, who exactly do we need anyways? We're just assuming Daniels MIGHT get injured? It's just not logistical to me. That's not how you make moves in the NBA.

Rudy for a 1st and Wafer is fine for me, but that kind of deal didn't get Rudy in the summer, when it would've best to have him so he could've had a training camp with this team.  Either way, the same deal from the summer won't look any more attractive. MAYBE in February, but no way Chris Wallace considers that in this junction of the season.

I don't know if OJ Mayo can be had for what we'd ideally give him away for, either. Weren't we going to go after Prince in February anyways to backup Daniels? OJ Mayo as a long-term solution is not someone I'd want to trade for, either. I'd rather wait on someone else, and I mean when it's clear Ray can't start for us anymore and we need a long-term replacement for him. Yes, I mean signing someone in 2012 if we have to wait that long, when we actually have the cap.

[StartOrien]

Nate could never be more than Rondo's backup? Fair enough.

But what was he brought back to do? Be Rondo's backup.

Nate was brought back b/c under current CBA rules he was one of a limited amount of players that could crack our rotation for the money/rules. The drafting of Avery Bradyley combined with the acquisition of Delonte West seem to support that he was brought back to be a shooting guard.

[MBunge]

I'd guess that the Grizzlies could get a better offer from at least a dozen teams in the league.

Probably.


But if I were the Celtics, I would hold onto my chips until that happens. 

I'd do the same, but don't think that there's even a tenth of a chance we'd land OJ Mayo. With the team rolling the way it has lately, I wouldn't make a move that wasn't anything less than an absolute slam dunk. I'm a huge Rudy Fernandez believer, but I don't think he's enough of a sure-thing to bother making a trade for at this point.

If all is takes is Wafer and a 1st, that's pretty close to a slam dunk.  I can't imagine any trade where Boston would have to give up less to get anyone of value.  I'd prefer someone with enough strength to play the 3 for those games when Marquis vanishes, but I'm not sure a guy like that is getable.

Mike

I think this summer showed enough that Rudy probably isn't going back to Europe anytime soon. However, he still is a pretty moody player who'd have a tough time getting anywhere near the minutes he'd want. He's 23+ minutes on his career and he'd be replacing Von Wafer's 6.5 minutes (skewed high b/c of some blowouts). I don't think there's enough minutes to keep him happy/productive.

I'd hope Doc would feel comfortable playing Rudy more than Von, but who knows.

The minutes thing is key because Boston would be giving up a 1st round pick for a guy who, if Delonte comes back healthy, would be the 5th guard on the roster and might be inactive most of the time.

On the other hand, we're 1/4th of the way through the season and Boston is within spitting distance of the best record in the league.  I wouldn't trade a 1st for Rudy if the Celts were 16-6 right now.

I don't think there's any way to add another decent big to the team, but a Rudy deal seems possible.  I'd rather Von show Doc enough to get some more court time, but with Delonte out and Marquis prone to vanish in games, I do think something needs to happen if the Cs are going to have a shot at the best record without running Ray and Paul into the ground.

Mike

[StartOrien]

I'd hope Doc would feel comfortable playing Rudy more than Von, but who knows.

I'm sure he would, but I don't know who you're taking those minutes from.

[Tai]

Nate could never be more than Rondo's backup? Fair enough.

But what was he brought back to do? Be Rondo's backup.

Nate was brought back b/c under current CBA rules he was one of a limited amount of players that could crack our rotation for the money/rules. The drafting of Avery Bradyley combined with the acquisition of Delonte West seem to support that he was brought back to be a shooting guard.

No, Nate was brought in to backup Rondo. I also figure the description I bolded in your quote fits Delonte more than Nate's, as in Nate was projected to have a bigger role than West. Some people before the season even assumed Delonte may even be cut since he's on a non-guaranteed contract, if I'm not mistaken.

[StartOrien]

Nate could never be more than Rondo's backup? Fair enough.

But what was he brought back to do? Be Rondo's backup.

Nate was brought back b/c under current CBA rules he was one of a limited amount of players that could crack our rotation for the money/rules. The drafting of Avery Bradyley combined with the acquisition of Delonte West seem to support that he was brought back to be a shooting guard.

No, Nate was brought in to backup Rondo. I also figure the description I bolded in your quote fits Delonte more than Nate's, as in Nate was projected to have a bigger role than West. Some people before the season even assumed Delonte may even be cut since he's on a non-guaranteed contract, if I'm not mistaken.

Financially, both fit this case. If we had let Nate Robinson go, we would've only been able to acquire a new player at the minimum to replace him. Because of Robinson's non bird rights we were able to keep him for 2 years 8.7 million. Again, under CBA rules it would be impossible to sign a rotational players of Nate's caliber.

I haven't had success locating a quote, though I'm pretty sure that Doc Rivers himself had stated that he expected Delonte West to be the teams backup PG and have Nate mostly play off guard when the two were on the court during camp. Though I admit this wasn't the case during Delonte's short stint w/ the team.

[MBunge]

I'd hope Doc would feel comfortable playing Rudy more than Von, but who knows.

I'm sure he would, but I don't know who you're taking those minutes from.

Delonte was averaging over 17 minutes a game before he got hurt.

Mike

[Who]

I'd trade Von or Marquiz + 1st rounder to Toronto for Julian Wright instead for Rudy.

Wright is a solid defender and a good shooter. He can back up Paul no problem. And he's young too. Only thing is he's getting paid 3m (i think), so we need to give away good players to match salaries.

Julian Wright would be an excellent target. I don't think you'd need to pay that much for him though.

Especially if the C's are able to keep Marquis and the rest of their rotation players. Wright brings that size + athleticism and defense + rebounding at the SF position that the Celtics lack at times. He would be a great situational sub to have at the end of the bench.

And if he ever puts it together on a consistent basis, he would be a superb backup for Paul Pierce.

[StartOrien]

I'd hope Doc would feel comfortable playing Rudy more than Von, but who knows.

I'm sure he would, but I don't know who you're taking those minutes from.

Delonte was averaging over 17 minutes a game before he got hurt.

Mike

True, though according to Delonte, he'll be back sooner than later

[ssspence]

I'd trade Von or Marquiz + 1st rounder to Toronto for Julian Wright instead for Rudy.

Wright is a solid defender and a good shooter. He can back up Paul no problem. And he's young too. Only thing is he's getting paid 3m (i think), so we need to give away good players to match salaries.

Julian Wright would be an excellent target. I don't think you'd need to pay that much for him though.

Especially if the C's are able to keep Marquis and the rest of their rotation players. Wright brings that size + athleticism and defense + rebounding at the SF position that the Celtics lack at times. He would be a great situational sub to have at the end of the bench.

And if he ever puts it together on a consistent basis, he would be a superb backup for Paul Pierce.

Wright can't shoot.

[Fafnir]

I'd trade Von or Marquiz + 1st rounder to Toronto for Julian Wright instead for Rudy.

Wright is a solid defender and a good shooter. He can back up Paul no problem. And he's young too. Only thing is he's getting paid 3m (i think), so we need to give away good players to match salaries.

Julian Wright would be an excellent target. I don't think you'd need to pay that much for him though.

Especially if the C's are able to keep Marquis and the rest of their rotation players. Wright brings that size + athleticism and defense + rebounding at the SF position that the Celtics lack at times. He would be a great situational sub to have at the end of the bench.

And if he ever puts it together on a consistent basis, he would be a superb backup for Paul Pierce.

Wright can't shoot.

Neither can Marquis though.

[birdwatcher]

Wafer and a 1st for Rudy might work

but I have to agree with some people above, I rather wait for OJ Mayo...

Normally I wouldn't want to trade Bradley for anyone, cuz the kid's young and can play defense...
but if that guy is OJ Mayo, I would trade Wafer, Bradley and some other guy for him

OJ Mayo did say he wants to play with Rondo =)

What exactly would the Grizzlies incentive to make this trade? They just threw a truck load of cash at Mike Conley, already have two rookies who play 2/3 and have a 'stopper' in Tony Allen - the only thing Avery Bradley has shown the ability to do at this point.

They'd be trading a proven player with a high ceiling to add two players who might crack their rotation, only one with potential to significantly improve

Conley/ Bradley
Henry/ TA / Vasquez / Von Wafer
Gay / Sam Young
Randolph
Gasol

ESPN stated in the Daily Dime yesterday that TA is available, along with JJ Reddick and Brendan Haywood. We could use any/all of those guys, although Orlando would never give up JJ to us. Could we bring TA back, and would we want to? Haywood would be a nice pick up, too. As far as Mayo goes, I think we do have the pieces to get him here--if Memphis doesn't want to pay him, anyone they get back for him with comparable talent will want the same money, no? So a first rd pick plus Bradley or Harangody would be great because their salaries are so small, plus they have rebuilding on the cheap with more young players. Question is, whose salary would we need to match Mayo's for trade purposes?

[snowball]

Von Wafer = Rudy Fernandez.

says it all.