LeBron doesn't want to change his game because it would make him "a roleplayer"

[wdleehi]

He is the best player on the Heat.  The team needs to adjust to his game and not try to adjust to both his and Wade's "alpha male" game.  There can only be one, everyone else adjust around.


Look at the Celtics in 2008.  They made KG the alpha male, Pierce and Ray adjusted their games around KG.  Did it make Pierce or Ray less of stars?  No.  Star players are star players. 

Uh, did KG's game demand that Ray and Pierce stand around with a stick up their butts while KG pounded the ball into the ground?

The whole problem with LeBron is exactly that everyone has always "adjusted around" him.  No one has ever made him do anything he didn't want to do or made him play a role on a team he didn't want to play.  People made excuses for LeBron in Cleveland, saying he didn't have enough talent around him.  Well, even with the weaknesses in the Heat roster, Bron is now playing with the two most talented teammates he's ever had in the NBA.  Do you see Bron doing ANYTHING on the court to make best use of that talent?

Oh, and that Cleveland team that everyone thought sucked around LeBron?  They're now sitting at 7-9 with the 8th best record in the East and have one more road win than the Heat.

Mike

So they went from the best record in the NBA and now they are sub-500?  


Yeah, that team is going places.  Good thing they are in the East where sub 500 teams can make the playoffs to be sacrificed to the number 1 seed.  


Cleveland stinks and are playing over their head right now.  They want to prove they do not need Lebron.  They will crash back down.  (well crash as hard as a sub 500 team can)


And Lebron has added to his game.  His defense has greatly improved from 2008 to 2010.  


Lebron quit?  Then so did Kobe against the Celtics in the playoffs because his numbers were worst.  Good thing has Gasol (the real LA MVP in that series)  Give credit where credit belongs.  Lebron didn't quit.  He got nailed by the Celtics defense.  


Is he selfish?  Yep.

Does he have to learn to put more trust in his teammates?  Yes.  Once those teammates start proving themselves to him.   How many bad games have we seen Wade and Bosh have this season?


The Heat need a strategy.  Their best player is Lebron.  It should be built around him, not all three.  

I disagree on multiple points.

1. The Cavs have a new coach and system, and are still improving.  They are learning to play as a team as opposed to a supporting cast.

2. To claim "quitting" is based on numbers rather than watching a player suddenly play with no effort doesn't make sense.

C's fans and LeBronists are the only people I've seen who credit the C's defense for what LeBron didn't do in games 4 and 5...

3. Teams built around one p[layer don't usually win titles due to lack of balance.  And with the Heat's flawed roster, that can only change via trade.

I'm with Roy - LeBron needs a post game if the Heat are to succeed.

The Heat should hire Hakeem as a coach!

1)  The Cavs stink.  They are a sub-500 team.  They are playing over their heads.

2)  I watched the Celtics defense take Lebron out.  Those who say Lebron quit are the ones who give the Celtics no credit.  Basically Lebron is so great, the only way he could look bad is if he quit.   

3)  The team is not built around one player, but the scheme has to be designed to incorporate all players.  That means making one man the 1st option and everyone else working off them. 



And if the Heat replace the coach, don't you think the guy with multiple rings that already runs the team should take over?

[LooseCannon]

2)  I watched the Celtics defense take Lebron out.  Those who say Lebron quit are the ones who give the Celtics no credit.  Basically Lebron is so great, the only way he could look bad is if he quit.   

LeBron quit because he was frustrated by the great Celtics defense and didn't have the heart to go down fighting.

[housecall]

So they went from the best record in the NBA and now they are sub-500? 


Yeah, that team is going places.  Good thing they are in the East where sub 500 teams can make the playoffs to be sacrificed to the number 1 seed. 


Cleveland stinks and are playing over their head right now.  They want to prove they do not need Lebron.  They will crash back down.  (well crash as hard as a sub 500 team can)

SNIP

The Heat need a strategy.  Their best player is Lebron.  It should be built around him, not all three. 

If Cleveland can be 7-9 without LeBron but LeBron can only be 9-8 with Wade and Bosh, what does that say?

If LeBron can't function on the court without turning a scoring champion and a 20/10 guy into role players, it seems to me that he's as much of a problem as anything else in Miami.

Mike

Cavs should be 6-10...we should have never lost to them.

Of their 7 wins, 6 are against teams below the .500 mark. The Cavs can win against inferior teams, just like any team in the NBA on any given night etc. etc.

Cavs can't keep their current play up because their roster is just not that talented and also their schedule will pick up and they won't be facing mediocre to poorish teams anymore.

 

Same goes for the Lakers...they can only play the Minny's and Sac's of the league so many times before they have to play a tougher schedule.I agree with the Cavs haven't played a lot of top teams.

[indeedproceed]

Cavs can't keep their current play up because their roster is just not that talented and also their schedule will pick up and they won't be facing mediocre to poorish teams anymore.

 

Same goes for the Lakers...they can only play the Minny's and Sac's of the league so many times before they have to play a tougher schedule.I agree with the Cavs haven't played a lot of top teams.

Lakers are champs until proven otherwise. Losing 3 of 16 regular season games in an admittedly cushy schedule doesn't prove otherwise. Also, that have beaten some good teams. They beat Chicago, who is currently 3rd in the East, and they whooped on the Blazers before Roy went out. Also, none of their losses have been by more than 6 points. I hate to defend the Lakers here, but the whole "they're not that good because they have a cushy schedule is flimsy at best, and really not much of an argument at all less than 20 games into the regular season.

Plus, the fact that 3 of our 4 losses have come against "gimme games" (Cleveland, Toronto, and a Durant-less and Green-less OKC) is as much or more telling than the Lakers performance so far. It all amounts to squat.

[housecall]

Cavs can't keep their current play up because their roster is just not that talented and also their schedule will pick up and they won't be facing mediocre to poorish teams anymore.

 

Same goes for the Lakers...they can only play the Minny's and Sac's of the league so many times before they have to play a tougher schedule.I agree with the Cavs haven't played a lot of top teams.

Lakers are champs until proven otherwise. Losing 3 of 16 regular season games in an admittedly cushy schedule doesn't prove otherwise. Also, that have beaten some good teams. They beat Chicago, who is currently 3rd in the East, and they whooped on the Blazers before Roy went out. Also, none of their losses have been by more than 6 points. I hate to defend the Lakers here, but the whole "they're not that good because they have a cushy schedule is flimsy at best, and really not much of an argument at all less than 20 games into the regular season.

Plus, the fact that 3 of our 4 losses have come against "gimme games" (Cleveland, Toronto, and a Durant-less and Green-less OKC) is as much or more telling than the Lakers performance so far. It all amounts to squat.

My point wasn't meant as the Lakers are not that good but the league seems to gives them a soft schedule every season to start.I didn't write anything about the Lakers not being a good team.

[Megatron]

1)Cavs are a terrible team, one of the worst in the NBA but it's been proven that hard work, can trump talent. (Blazers, Bucks, Rockets all teams that lack any sort of depth but outwork their opponents each night to get wins.)

2) NEVER compare out big 3, with the "other 3" in Miami.
This team was NOT "built around KG" as one of you stated earlier. This team was build around DEFENSE and TRUST. Every piece of the celtics is as vital as the other. And by the way, Pierce is still considered the alpha-dog, thats why you see the ball in his hands at the end of games, because out of all of our players,  hes the best closer.

3) The flaw of the heat is that they dont have a talented point guard that directs the team like Rondo does with us. Hench, LeBron and Wade need the ball in their hands most of the time to be effective. If the heat had a decent point guard, im sure the plan would be just that. LeBron and Wade adjust your games so that you can learn how to play off the ball.

I would take a Pierce iso contested jumpshot over a wide open jumper from Rondo any day of the week btw.

[indeedproceed]

My point wasn't meant as the Lakers are not that good but the league seems to gives them a soft schedule every season to start.I didn't write anything about the Lakers not being a good team.

Ah, my mistake. I thought when you responded to "Cavs can't keep up their current level of play" with "same with the Lakers", you were implying their record was a product of their schedule, and they weren't as good as 13-3 would suggest.

[Kane3387]

I don't see Jordan ever change his game to support Pippen. It was the other way around.

I disagree.  Jordan changed his game for the betterment of his team, going from a guy who averaged around 33/8/8 to a player putting up 30/5/5.  Jordan was willing to give up the ball more, playing within the offense rather than a guy who needed the ball for the first 20 seconds of the 24 second clock.  Obviously the offense was still run around Jordan, but he scored less and got fewer assists and rebounds, because he learned to trust his teammates, not only to make open baskets, but to do the right things when needed.  Jordan also became a better outside shooter and better defender as time went on.

Now, Jordan probably didn't change his game drastically, but he absolutely did modify his player to better mesh with his teammates, which is all anybody is asking Lebron to do.

MJ didn't come into the league with that great post game and killer fade away. As time went on he learned to play less above the rim and not lose effectiveness. Also he continued to transform his body in the weight room (haha I know Lebron is swole) so that is a way to continue change. Honestly LeBron is as big as Karl Malone. As you said he could develop a post game and a better pick and pop game, so that the pick and roll with Wade would be deadly.

[Kane3387]

I don't see Jordan ever change his game to support Pippen. It was the other way around.

I disagree.  Jordan changed his game for the betterment of his team, going from a guy who averaged around 33/8/8 to a player putting up 30/5/5.  Jordan was willing to give up the ball more, playing within the offense rather than a guy who needed the ball for the first 20 seconds of the 24 second clock.  Obviously the offense was still run around Jordan, but he scored less and got fewer assists and rebounds, because he learned to trust his teammates, not only to make open baskets, but to do the right things when needed.  Jordan also became a better outside shooter and better defender as time went on.

Now, Jordan probably didn't change his game drastically, but he absolutely did modify his player to better mesh with his teammates, which is all anybody is asking Lebron to do.

I understand that basketball is a team game and if you are the best player on your team there are 4 other teammates on the court with you that can help you out or you can help them out.

Those stats from Jordan are the same to me...30/5/5 is virtually no different than 33/8/8.

The difference to me is that Jordan changed his flashiness to more substance and was able to bring a rise in Paxon's game, and then later BJ Armstrong's game....Steve Kerr...etc. etc.

Pippen's game never "rose"...he was always Pippen. It wasn't until Jordan was gone that Pippen's numbers rose significantly. Scottie could have been a dominant 2 way player in the league if Jordan played for the Bullets or something.

For the Heat....you can't expect Lebron to change his game so that Joel Anthony can become a "Bill Cartwright on his worst day" because Joel Anthony sucks.

Also, to be honest....Carlos Arroyo is having a pretty darn good year statistically...but he ain't no Paxon or Randy Brown.

It would make total sense to ask Lebron to change his game so that a healthy Haslem could have a career season in rebounds per game...or that a healthy Mike Miller could have a career high in 3PT FG%, but those guys are not healthy.

What the Heat have left are not worth changing one of your star players...because if you do it will be further detriment to the team.

A big problem that might be going on is that both Wade and Lebron are trying too hard to change their game...so both of their games are going to suffer.

I think the problem is that there is too much redundancy on the court with Wade and Lebron's game. Pierce and Ray are completely different players so there not really a fair comparison. There games really compliment each other. That's not the case for Wade and James. They have to improve other aspects of their games with the style the Heat plays. Now if the heat press the ball more and speed the game up it's different. Pippen was not a spot up shooter and neither was Jordan but they were excellent at connecting on alley oops and hitting the cutter. They were willing to mov without the ball more. For Miami it's nothing but isolation. Lebron goes one on one and Wade stands. Wade goes one one one and James stands. The style Miami plays brings out the flaws in having James and Wade on the court together more then it does their strengths. This team needs to RUN bad!!! Also they need move without the ball because their half court offense is way too stagnant.

[Kane3387]

So they went from the best record in the NBA and now they are sub-500?  


Yeah, that team is going places.  Good thing they are in the East where sub 500 teams can make the playoffs to be sacrificed to the number 1 seed.  


Cleveland stinks and are playing over their head right now.  They want to prove they do not need Lebron.  They will crash back down.  (well crash as hard as a sub 500 team can)

SNIP

The Heat need a strategy.  Their best player is Lebron.  It should be built around him, not all three.  

If Cleveland can be 7-9 without LeBron but LeBron can only be 9-8 with Wade and Bosh, what does that say?

If LeBron can't function on the court without turning a scoring champion and a 20/10 guy into role players, it seems to me that he's as much of a problem as anything else in Miami.

Mike

That Wade and Bosh need to do a better job or be put in a better position to help Lebron.  The Heat have shown at points of being scary.  It's when they put the ball in Lebrons hands.


No star can win if the team plays three different offenses depending on who they want to score.  There needs to be a plan in place that takes advantage of the teams strengths. 


Would the Celtics have worked if Pierce or Ray demanded the ball go through them?  No. 



If the Heat want to win, they need to pick a single strategy.  An offense going through Lebron has proven capable of taking a team to the NBA finals without a good 2nd option.  It is up to Wade and Bosh to fit themselves into that offense so they can support Lebron while still playing like stars. 




Oh, and they need depth and a PG. 

Lol I see your point and agree James is the better player and should have the ball in his hands. HOWEVER an offense running through Dwayne Wade WON a CHAMPIONSHIP! 2005-06

[Kane3387]

I don't see Jordan ever change his game to support Pippen. It was the other way around.

I disagree.  Jordan changed his game for the betterment of his team, going from a guy who averaged around 33/8/8 to a player putting up 30/5/5.  Jordan was willing to give up the ball more, playing within the offense rather than a guy who needed the ball for the first 20 seconds of the 24 second clock.  Obviously the offense was still run around Jordan, but he scored less and got fewer assists and rebounds, because he learned to trust his teammates, not only to make open baskets, but to do the right things when needed.  Jordan also became a better outside shooter and better defender as time went on.

Now, Jordan probably didn't change his game drastically, but he absolutely did modify his player to better mesh with his teammates, which is all anybody is asking Lebron to do.

  A few points though. MJ was older than James when he changed his game. His numbers went down but his usage% was about the same between those two years. And the change was slight, so one could argue that the change to LeBron's game this year is as significant as the change to MJ's game. One big difference was that the Bulls roster was continually tailored to MJ's game while LeBron is now on a team that isn't conducive to his game.

LOL....Exactly what team would be conducive to the messiah's game?  He's the ultimate role player already....He plays every role on his team to the detriment of his teammates.

  Better shooters maybe? Better defenders as well. Cleveland had the best record in the league a couple of years in a row and they've gone deep in the playoffs more than once. You act like he's been hanging around 40 wins and getting beat in the first round every year.

The best illustration is Shaq.  When Shaq is on the court this season, his teammates play to his unique talents to the benefit of the team.  When Shaq was on the court last season, the messiah played to the messiah's talents and Shaq's talent was neutralized.

  Shaq is playing with significantly better players at 3 of the other 4 starting spots. Want to compare the attention KG and RA get to what AV and Anthony Parker command? And LeBron can't run an offense or distribute the ball like Rondo, but then only a couple of people in the league can and they're all pgs.

Teams that the messiah plays for...(And like Iverson, there will be many teams he plays for) Will continually tinker, retune, and overhaul their rosters so they're "conducive" to the messiah's game....With the same result.

You can't even make a serious argument that MJ's teams were as successful as LeBron's teams at the same ages. LeBron's biggest problem is impatience, wanting the quick fix every season instead of letting his GM build for the long term. And, again, he's had much more success than MJ, both in the regular season and in the playoffs at the same point in their careers.

Jordan, Jabbar, Duncan, Bird, Garnett, Bryant, etc care/cared about winning above their marketability. The difference between them and the messiah is that their marketability was a result of their team's success. 

  Jordan was as interested if not more interested in stats than winning in the early portions of his career. Before Bird's back problem and Magic's HIV people would have chuckled if you claimed MJ was in their class of players.

Jordan was a killer man. He wanted your heart! James is not. It's different. Jordan wanted you leaving the game believing you cant beat him. James wants you to leave talking about his dunks and triple doubles. Also Jordan won a ring in year 7. James is ringless in year 8.

[LilRip]

i've only read the 4th page of posts but from what i've read, i wanna just comment on a couple of points people are making.

1) The C's took the Cavs heart. Lebron quit because he was frustrated. The C's defense was definitely good (as expected) but instead of fighting the good fight, Lebron just folded and stopped playing. No matter how good a defense is, they can't make Lebron stand in that corner and act uninterested.

2) MJ and Lebron are different. MJ wanted to be the best and beat the best. Lebron wants to be rich. Kobe (sad to say) is the closest thing to MJ in this day and age. just the amount of work they put into the game, and their similar hunger for winning.

3) i think the biggest reason why the Heat experiment isn't working too well is because their talents aren't the right fit with each other.

meanwhile, look at the Celtics dynamic in 08. They had a premiere shooter, a premiere scorer who scored both inside and out, and the league's best defender in KG. They had terrific defenders at both the PG and C position and they had a legit 6th man in Posey.

meanwhile, look at the current Heat dynamic. they have so-so players at both the PG and C. They have two terrific inside scorers at the wing positions and a scorer at the 4. This type of team worked in international play because Team USA dominated the competition by being much more athletic, much more deeper and much more talented than their opposition in virtually every position. the Heat are more talented in 2-3 positions on a nightly basis, and are not deep.

add to that, i think their problems go beyond personnel. the heart or desire to win just isn't there.

[BballTim]

I don't see Jordan ever change his game to support Pippen. It was the other way around.

I disagree.  Jordan changed his game for the betterment of his team, going from a guy who averaged around 33/8/8 to a player putting up 30/5/5.  Jordan was willing to give up the ball more, playing within the offense rather than a guy who needed the ball for the first 20 seconds of the 24 second clock.  Obviously the offense was still run around Jordan, but he scored less and got fewer assists and rebounds, because he learned to trust his teammates, not only to make open baskets, but to do the right things when needed.  Jordan also became a better outside shooter and better defender as time went on.

Now, Jordan probably didn't change his game drastically, but he absolutely did modify his player to better mesh with his teammates, which is all anybody is asking Lebron to do.

  A few points though. MJ was older than James when he changed his game. His numbers went down but his usage% was about the same between those two years. And the change was slight, so one could argue that the change to LeBron's game this year is as significant as the change to MJ's game. One big difference was that the Bulls roster was continually tailored to MJ's game while LeBron is now on a team that isn't conducive to his game.

LOL....Exactly what team would be conducive to the messiah's game?  He's the ultimate role player already....He plays every role on his team to the detriment of his teammates.

  Better shooters maybe? Better defenders as well. Cleveland had the best record in the league a couple of years in a row and they've gone deep in the playoffs more than once. You act like he's been hanging around 40 wins and getting beat in the first round every year.

The best illustration is Shaq.  When Shaq is on the court this season, his teammates play to his unique talents to the benefit of the team.  When Shaq was on the court last season, the messiah played to the messiah's talents and Shaq's talent was neutralized.

  Shaq is playing with significantly better players at 3 of the other 4 starting spots. Want to compare the attention KG and RA get to what AV and Anthony Parker command? And LeBron can't run an offense or distribute the ball like Rondo, but then only a couple of people in the league can and they're all pgs.

Teams that the messiah plays for...(And like Iverson, there will be many teams he plays for) Will continually tinker, retune, and overhaul their rosters so they're "conducive" to the messiah's game....With the same result.

You can't even make a serious argument that MJ's teams were as successful as LeBron's teams at the same ages. LeBron's biggest problem is impatience, wanting the quick fix every season instead of letting his GM build for the long term. And, again, he's had much more success than MJ, both in the regular season and in the playoffs at the same point in their careers.

Jordan, Jabbar, Duncan, Bird, Garnett, Bryant, etc care/cared about winning above their marketability. The difference between them and the messiah is that their marketability was a result of their team's success. 

  Jordan was as interested if not more interested in stats than winning in the early portions of his career. Before Bird's back problem and Magic's HIV people would have chuckled if you claimed MJ was in their class of players.

Jordan was a killer man. He wanted your heart! James is not. It's different. Jordan wanted you leaving the game believing you cant beat him. James wants you to leave talking about his dunks and triple doubles. Also Jordan won a ring in year 7. James is ringless in year 8.

  MJ went to college for 3 years. He won the title when he was roughly the age LeBron will be during the 2011-2012 season. Again, you're comparing LeBron to a player that, at the same age, was putting up somewhat similar stats and having less success during the regular season and the playoffs. MJ comes out ahead because of what he did lateer in his career, not because of what he accomplished at the same age.

[Roy H.]

I don't see Jordan ever change his game to support Pippen. It was the other way around.

I disagree.  Jordan changed his game for the betterment of his team, going from a guy who averaged around 33/8/8 to a player putting up 30/5/5.  Jordan was willing to give up the ball more, playing within the offense rather than a guy who needed the ball for the first 20 seconds of the 24 second clock.  Obviously the offense was still run around Jordan, but he scored less and got fewer assists and rebounds, because he learned to trust his teammates, not only to make open baskets, but to do the right things when needed.  Jordan also became a better outside shooter and better defender as time went on.

Now, Jordan probably didn't change his game drastically, but he absolutely did modify his player to better mesh with his teammates, which is all anybody is asking Lebron to do.

  A few points though. MJ was older than James when he changed his game. His numbers went down but his usage% was about the same between those two years. And the change was slight, so one could argue that the change to LeBron's game this year is as significant as the change to MJ's game. One big difference was that the Bulls roster was continually tailored to MJ's game while LeBron is now on a team that isn't conducive to his game.

LOL....Exactly what team would be conducive to the messiah's game?  He's the ultimate role player already....He plays every role on his team to the detriment of his teammates.

  Better shooters maybe? Better defenders as well. Cleveland had the best record in the league a couple of years in a row and they've gone deep in the playoffs more than once. You act like he's been hanging around 40 wins and getting beat in the first round every year.

The best illustration is Shaq.  When Shaq is on the court this season, his teammates play to his unique talents to the benefit of the team.  When Shaq was on the court last season, the messiah played to the messiah's talents and Shaq's talent was neutralized.

  Shaq is playing with significantly better players at 3 of the other 4 starting spots. Want to compare the attention KG and RA get to what AV and Anthony Parker command? And LeBron can't run an offense or distribute the ball like Rondo, but then only a couple of people in the league can and they're all pgs.

Teams that the messiah plays for...(And like Iverson, there will be many teams he plays for) Will continually tinker, retune, and overhaul their rosters so they're "conducive" to the messiah's game....With the same result.

You can't even make a serious argument that MJ's teams were as successful as LeBron's teams at the same ages. LeBron's biggest problem is impatience, wanting the quick fix every season instead of letting his GM build for the long term. And, again, he's had much more success than MJ, both in the regular season and in the playoffs at the same point in their careers.

Jordan, Jabbar, Duncan, Bird, Garnett, Bryant, etc care/cared about winning above their marketability. The difference between them and the messiah is that their marketability was a result of their team's success. 

  Jordan was as interested if not more interested in stats than winning in the early portions of his career. Before Bird's back problem and Magic's HIV people would have chuckled if you claimed MJ was in their class of players.

Jordan was a killer man. He wanted your heart! James is not. It's different. Jordan wanted you leaving the game believing you cant beat him. James wants you to leave talking about his dunks and triple doubles. Also Jordan won a ring in year 7. James is ringless in year 8.

  MJ went to college for 3 years. He won the title when he was roughly the age LeBron will be during the 2011-2012 season. Again, you're comparing LeBron to a player that, at the same age, was putting up somewhat similar stats and having less success during the regular season and the playoffs. MJ comes out ahead because of what he did lateer in his career, not because of what he accomplished at the same age.

At the same time, the league was different back then.  The league had better teams to face in the regular season, and the teams MJ lost to in the playoffs were better than the teams Lebron has lost to thus far, as well.  He got knocked off twice by the mid-80s Celtics, and then struggled to get by the Bad Boy Pistons.

The current Celtics and the Magic are good teams, but they certainly weren't of the caliber of the 1986 Celtics, and the Magic aren't in the class of the old Pistons teams.

[BballTim]

I don't see Jordan ever change his game to support Pippen. It was the other way around.

I disagree.  Jordan changed his game for the betterment of his team, going from a guy who averaged around 33/8/8 to a player putting up 30/5/5.  Jordan was willing to give up the ball more, playing within the offense rather than a guy who needed the ball for the first 20 seconds of the 24 second clock.  Obviously the offense was still run around Jordan, but he scored less and got fewer assists and rebounds, because he learned to trust his teammates, not only to make open baskets, but to do the right things when needed.  Jordan also became a better outside shooter and better defender as time went on.

Now, Jordan probably didn't change his game drastically, but he absolutely did modify his player to better mesh with his teammates, which is all anybody is asking Lebron to do.

  A few points though. MJ was older than James when he changed his game. His numbers went down but his usage% was about the same between those two years. And the change was slight, so one could argue that the change to LeBron's game this year is as significant as the change to MJ's game. One big difference was that the Bulls roster was continually tailored to MJ's game while LeBron is now on a team that isn't conducive to his game.

LOL....Exactly what team would be conducive to the messiah's game?  He's the ultimate role player already....He plays every role on his team to the detriment of his teammates.

  Better shooters maybe? Better defenders as well. Cleveland had the best record in the league a couple of years in a row and they've gone deep in the playoffs more than once. You act like he's been hanging around 40 wins and getting beat in the first round every year.

The best illustration is Shaq.  When Shaq is on the court this season, his teammates play to his unique talents to the benefit of the team.  When Shaq was on the court last season, the messiah played to the messiah's talents and Shaq's talent was neutralized.

  Shaq is playing with significantly better players at 3 of the other 4 starting spots. Want to compare the attention KG and RA get to what AV and Anthony Parker command? And LeBron can't run an offense or distribute the ball like Rondo, but then only a couple of people in the league can and they're all pgs.

Teams that the messiah plays for...(And like Iverson, there will be many teams he plays for) Will continually tinker, retune, and overhaul their rosters so they're "conducive" to the messiah's game....With the same result.

You can't even make a serious argument that MJ's teams were as successful as LeBron's teams at the same ages. LeBron's biggest problem is impatience, wanting the quick fix every season instead of letting his GM build for the long term. And, again, he's had much more success than MJ, both in the regular season and in the playoffs at the same point in their careers.

Jordan, Jabbar, Duncan, Bird, Garnett, Bryant, etc care/cared about winning above their marketability. The difference between them and the messiah is that their marketability was a result of their team's success.

  Jordan was as interested if not more interested in stats than winning in the early portions of his career. Before Bird's back problem and Magic's HIV people would have chuckled if you claimed MJ was in their class of players.

Jordan was a killer man. He wanted your heart! James is not. It's different. Jordan wanted you leaving the game believing you cant beat him. James wants you to leave talking about his dunks and triple doubles. Also Jordan won a ring in year 7. James is ringless in year 8.

  MJ went to college for 3 years. He won the title when he was roughly the age LeBron will be during the 2011-2012 season. Again, you're comparing LeBron to a player that, at the same age, was putting up somewhat similar stats and having less success during the regular season and the playoffs. MJ comes out ahead because of what he did lateer in his career, not because of what he accomplished at the same age.

At the same time, the league was different back then.  The league had better teams to face in the regular season, and the teams MJ lost to in the playoffs were better than the teams Lebron has lost to thus far, as well.  He got knocked off twice by the mid-80s Celtics, and then struggled to get by the Bad Boy Pistons.

The current Celtics and the Magic are good teams, but they certainly weren't of the caliber of the 1986 Celtics, and the Magic aren't in the class of the old Pistons teams.

  After 1986 the Bulls lost 4 more times before they won the title. The Celts in '08 and last year were easily the equal of any team they would have faced in that time.