LeBron doesn't want to change his game because it would make him "a roleplayer"

[MBunge]

That article is trash.

I don't get why Lebron should be separated with Jordan, Magic and Bird because Lebron said he won't become a role player.

He should be separated from Magic and Bird because they were willing and able to share the court with other all-time great players.  He should be separated from Jordan because he quit in the playoffs last year.

mike

[LB3533]

He is the best player on the Heat.  The team needs to adjust to his game and not try to adjust to both his and Wade's "alpha male" game.  There can only be one, everyone else adjust around.


Look at the Celtics in 2008.  They made KG the alpha male, Pierce and Ray adjusted their games around KG.  Did it make Pierce or Ray less of stars?  No.  Star players are star players. 

Uh, did KG's game demand that Ray and Pierce stand around with a stick up their butts while KG pounded the ball into the ground?

The whole problem with LeBron is exactly that everyone has always "adjusted around" him.  No one has ever made him do anything he didn't want to do or made him play a role on a team he didn't want to play.  People made excuses for LeBron in Cleveland, saying he didn't have enough talent around him.  Well, even with the weaknesses in the Heat roster, Bron is now playing with the two most talented teammates he's ever had in the NBA.  Do you see Bron doing ANYTHING on the court to make best use of that talent?

Oh, and that Cleveland team that everyone thought sucked around LeBron?  They're now sitting at 7-9 with the 8th best record in the East and have one more road win than the Heat.

Mike

I want to make the points that both Wade and Lebron are not Ray and Pierce.

Neither Wade nor Lebron can still be "stars" if they stand around shooting open 3's or shooting midrange shots. Those two aspects of the game are strengths of Ray' and Paul's.

And yes, no one can tell me that Ray and Paul have had lesser usage of their talents since the Big 3 have teamed together back in 2007-2008.

Ray's made the biggest change in his game, but he changed his game towards his biggest strength. I believe twice Ray wasn't selected to the AS game, but made those 2 games as an injury replacement.

The strengths of Lebron and Wade are their athleticism, speed, and slashing ability. They need to run more and score easy shots...not jumpers.

[wdleehi]

He is the best player on the Heat.  The team needs to adjust to his game and not try to adjust to both his and Wade's "alpha male" game.  There can only be one, everyone else adjust around.


Look at the Celtics in 2008.  They made KG the alpha male, Pierce and Ray adjusted their games around KG.  Did it make Pierce or Ray less of stars?  No.  Star players are star players. 

Uh, did KG's game demand that Ray and Pierce stand around with a stick up their butts while KG pounded the ball into the ground?

The whole problem with LeBron is exactly that everyone has always "adjusted around" him.  No one has ever made him do anything he didn't want to do or made him play a role on a team he didn't want to play.  People made excuses for LeBron in Cleveland, saying he didn't have enough talent around him.  Well, even with the weaknesses in the Heat roster, Bron is now playing with the two most talented teammates he's ever had in the NBA.  Do you see Bron doing ANYTHING on the court to make best use of that talent?

Oh, and that Cleveland team that everyone thought sucked around LeBron?  They're now sitting at 7-9 with the 8th best record in the East and have one more road win than the Heat.

Mike

So they went from the best record in the NBA and now they are sub-500?  


Yeah, that team is going places.  Good thing they are in the East where sub 500 teams can make the playoffs to be sacrificed to the number 1 seed.  


Cleveland stinks and are playing over their head right now.  They want to prove they do not need Lebron.  They will crash back down.  (well crash as hard as a sub 500 team can)





And Lebron has added to his game.  His defense has greatly improved from 2008 to 2010.  


Lebron quit?  Then so did Kobe against the Celtics in the playoffs because his numbers were worst.  Good thing has Gasol (the real LA MVP in that series)  Give credit where credit belongs.  Lebron didn't quit  He got nailed by the Celtics defense.  



Is he selfish?  Yep.

Does he have to learn to put more trust in his teammates?  Yes.  Once those teammates start proving themselves to him.   How many bad games have we seen Wade and Bosh have this season?


The Heat need a strategy.  Their best player is Lebron.  It should be built around him, not all three.  

[LB3533]

That article is trash.

I don't get why Lebron should be separated with Jordan, Magic and Bird because Lebron said he won't become a role player.

He should be separated from Magic and Bird because they were willing and able to share the court with other all-time great players.  He should be separated from Jordan because he quit in the playoffs last year.

mike

That is not what the article is implying.

I don't see Jordan ever change his game to support Pippen. It was the other way around.

Same deal for Bird for McHale and Magic for Worthy.

That article is asking Lebron to change his game so that Wade or Bosh become "Jordan or Bird".

The article is complete BS.

[Fafnir]

He is the best player on the Heat.  The team needs to adjust to his game and not try to adjust to both his and Wade's "alpha male" game.  There can only be one, everyone else adjust around.


Look at the Celtics in 2008.  They made KG the alpha male, Pierce and Ray adjusted their games around KG.  Did it make Pierce or Ray less of stars?  No.  Star players are star players. 

Uh, did KG's game demand that Ray and Pierce stand around with a stick up their butts while KG pounded the ball into the ground?

KG has never been the same sort of offensive player that LeBron is. His career high usage is 2 points below LeBron's career average. Very different type of players, LeBron is more like Jordan.

Oh, and that Cleveland team that everyone thought sucked around LeBron?  They're now sitting at 7-9 with the 8th best record in the East and have one more road win than the Heat.

Everyone?

Quite a few people on this site predicted they'd hang around .500, unless the blow it up and ship off their veterans.

So far the Heat haven't been able to build around Wade/James's strengths and their bench has completely fallen apart (injuries to the 4th and 5th best players) Far too early to declare that LeBron's ego will permanently ruin the Heat.

Last year LeBron didn't play well in the series that got his team eliminated, but you're glossing over how well he played in the Orlando series. His supporting cast didn't do enough to win that series. The talent was there for him to win, but that's largely because it was a team tuned to support LeBron. The Heat need to figure out their formula and they have plenty of time still. In 07-08 the Cavs team that gave the C's the toughest series was basically a .500 team....

[Roy H.]

That article is trash.

I don't get why Lebron should be separated with Jordan, Magic and Bird because Lebron said he won't become a role player.

What does being a role player have anything to do with the holy trinity of basketball?

Did his airness or Magic or Bird ever join forces and was asked to be role players?

Would either three of their egos allowed them to accept a role player's role?

So basically, Lebron shouldn't be in the same class as Jordan, Magic and Bird because Lebron will not accept being a lesser player.

I mean, Jordan, Magic and Bird were the greatest role players ever!!!

Lebron, why can't you be more like those 3 awesome role playesrs?

I think you're misreading the article.  Nobody is saying that Lebron should be a role-player. 

Rather, they're saying that his philosophy of "if I change my game, then that makes me a role player" is a load of bunk.  The counter-examples (Jordan, Bird, Magic) are of elite, HOF players who did change their games.

[kozlodoev]

When your article looks like a book review of a single book, that's an indication that we're looking at some pretty bad journalism.

That LeBron statement is pretty ridiculous on its own right though, when you compare it to the mantra of that Celtics team the Heat are trying to emulate: "We're all role players".

[Fafnir]

That article is trash.

I don't get why Lebron should be separated with Jordan, Magic and Bird because Lebron said he won't become a role player.

He should be separated from Magic and Bird because they were willing and able to share the court with other all-time great players.  He should be separated from Jordan because he quit in the playoffs last year.

mike

I think agreeing to play with Wade is a sign he has no problem playing with other great players.

[Fafnir]

That article is trash.

I don't get why Lebron should be separated with Jordan, Magic and Bird because Lebron said he won't become a role player.

What does being a role player have anything to do with the holy trinity of basketball?

Did his airness or Magic or Bird ever join forces and was asked to be role players?

Would either three of their egos allowed them to accept a role player's role?

So basically, Lebron shouldn't be in the same class as Jordan, Magic and Bird because Lebron will not accept being a lesser player.

I mean, Jordan, Magic and Bird were the greatest role players ever!!!

Lebron, why can't you be more like those 3 awesome role playesrs?

I think you're misreading the article.  Nobody is saying that Lebron should be a role-player. 

Rather, they're saying that his philosophy of "if I change my game, then that makes me a role player" is a load of bunk.  The counter-examples (Jordan, Bird, Magic) are of elite, HOF players who did change their games.

They already called a players only meeting, the more I see this Heat team the more I think of how Ray/Paul/Kevin all said that this probably wouldn't have worked when they were younger.

All that said, I still think the Heat are going to be a nasty team later in the year. Eventually they'll figure out a better way to play off each other, and then they'll get Haslem/Miller back to fortify the bench....

I mean they have the 5th ranked offense and the 6th ranked defense. For all their struggles against good teams, they're still scoring and defending at rates that say they can/will contend this year.

[Roy H.]

I don't see Jordan ever change his game to support Pippen. It was the other way around.

I disagree.  Jordan changed his game for the betterment of his team, going from a guy who averaged around 33/8/8 to a player putting up 30/5/5.  Jordan was willing to give up the ball more, playing within the offense rather than a guy who needed the ball for the first 20 seconds of the 24 second clock.  Obviously the offense was still run around Jordan, but he scored less and got fewer assists and rebounds, because he learned to trust his teammates, not only to make open baskets, but to do the right things when needed.  Jordan also became a better outside shooter and better defender as time went on.

Now, Jordan probably didn't change his game drastically, but he absolutely did modify his player to better mesh with his teammates, which is all anybody is asking Lebron to do.

[Roy H.]

I mean they have the 5th ranked offense and the 6th ranked defense. For all their struggles against good teams, they're still scoring and defending at rates that say they can/will contend this year.

Those stats fit with the "mentally and physically soft" label they're getting, I think.  The Heat can do great things based upon athleticism, but psychologically, they're being held back.

At least, that's my wishful thinking.

[Fafnir]

I mean they have the 5th ranked offense and the 6th ranked defense. For all their struggles against good teams, they're still scoring and defending at rates that say they can/will contend this year.

Those stats fit with the "mentally and physically soft" label they're getting, I think.  The Heat can do great things based upon athleticism, but psychologically, they're being held back.

At least, that's my wishful thinking.

I'll be curious to see how those rankings hold up, right now out of their 17 games they have five "blowout" type wins. Also as their offense has gotten better their defense has suffered. Very much a team trying to figure out who they are.

[LB3533]

That article is trash.

I don't get why Lebron should be separated with Jordan, Magic and Bird because Lebron said he won't become a role player.

What does being a role player have anything to do with the holy trinity of basketball?

Did his airness or Magic or Bird ever join forces and was asked to be role players?

Would either three of their egos allowed them to accept a role player's role?

So basically, Lebron shouldn't be in the same class as Jordan, Magic and Bird because Lebron will not accept being a lesser player.

I mean, Jordan, Magic and Bird were the greatest role players ever!!!

Lebron, why can't you be more like those 3 awesome role playesrs?

I think you're misreading the article.  Nobody is saying that Lebron should be a role-player. 

Rather, they're saying that his philosophy of "if I change my game, then that makes me a role player" is a load of bunk.  The counter-examples (Jordan, Bird, Magic) are of elite, HOF players who did change their games.

That article is poorly written and Lebron's quote is probably taken too far out of context or I am just interpreting his quote too strongly.

Just playing on the same team with Wade has changed Lebron's game. The ball is not in Lebron's hands 90% of the time anymore. Same deal goes for Wade.

To ask Lebron to change his game more would make no sense because the Heat didn't sign Lebron to play like a lesser player.

[MBunge]

So they went from the best record in the NBA and now they are sub-500?  


Yeah, that team is going places.  Good thing they are in the East where sub 500 teams can make the playoffs to be sacrificed to the number 1 seed.  


Cleveland stinks and are playing over their head right now.  They want to prove they do not need Lebron.  They will crash back down.  (well crash as hard as a sub 500 team can)

SNIP

The Heat need a strategy.  Their best player is Lebron.  It should be built around him, not all three.  

If Cleveland can be 7-9 without LeBron but LeBron can only be 9-8 with Wade and Bosh, what does that say?

If LeBron can't function on the court without turning a scoring champion and a 20/10 guy into role players, it seems to me that he's as much of a problem as anything else in Miami.

Mike

[LB3533]

I don't see Jordan ever change his game to support Pippen. It was the other way around.

I disagree.  Jordan changed his game for the betterment of his team, going from a guy who averaged around 33/8/8 to a player putting up 30/5/5.  Jordan was willing to give up the ball more, playing within the offense rather than a guy who needed the ball for the first 20 seconds of the 24 second clock.  Obviously the offense was still run around Jordan, but he scored less and got fewer assists and rebounds, because he learned to trust his teammates, not only to make open baskets, but to do the right things when needed.  Jordan also became a better outside shooter and better defender as time went on.

Now, Jordan probably didn't change his game drastically, but he absolutely did modify his player to better mesh with his teammates, which is all anybody is asking Lebron to do.

I understand that basketball is a team game and if you are the best player on your team there are 4 other teammates on the court with you that can help you out or you can help them out.

Those stats from Jordan are the same to me...30/5/5 is virtually no different than 33/8/8.

The difference to me is that Jordan changed his flashiness to more substance and was able to bring a rise in Paxon's game, and then later BJ Armstrong's game....Steve Kerr...etc. etc.

Pippen's game never "rose"...he was always Pippen. It wasn't until Jordan was gone that Pippen's numbers rose significantly. Scottie could have been a dominant 2 way player in the league if Jordan played for the Bullets or something.

For the Heat....you can't expect Lebron to change his game so that Joel Anthony can become a "Bill Cartwright on his worst day" because Joel Anthony sucks.

Also, to be honest....Carlos Arroyo is having a pretty darn good year statistically...but he ain't no Paxon or Randy Brown.

It would make total sense to ask Lebron to change his game so that a healthy Haslem could have a career season in rebounds per game...or that a healthy Mike Miller could have a career high in 3PT FG%, but those guys are not healthy.

What the Heat have left are not worth changing one of your star players...because if you do it will be further detriment to the team.

A big problem that might be going on is that both Wade and Lebron are trying too hard to change their game...so both of their games are going to suffer.