Has KG gone too far (Charlie Villanueva comments) Update KG's response

[barefacedmonk]

Barefaced Monk, how about sticking to the subject at hand instead of trying to put me down. That's not a logical way to argue a point, is it?

Wasn't trying to put you down...I just said that a lot fans defend the players they like/root for/play for their team...just like you did with BBD last year. He was at fault yet you defended him on the front page and the forums....I didn't say what you did was wrong...just like the people defending KG here are not wrong.

KG, while foul-mouthed, has been a stand-up guy - at least from what I've seen as a fan. If he said that his comments were twisted, then I take him at his word.

Doc too said that KG's words were twisted by CV.

[MBz]

Regardless of it being on a basketball court or being in a bar it is still not the correct way to talk to people.

Its called trash talk....its never the correct way to talk to people. I'm sure KG doesn't refer to Charlie V in that fashion off court..it happened on the court...during a game...not in a bar.

So because his words come under the definition of "trash talk" it's okay?  You just said it's never the correct way to talk to people, so why does it make it okay if it's considered "trash talk"?  

He didn't invite CV for a cup of coffee and then run his mouth off...it happened on court..during a game...2 people going at each other...each trying to win the game for his team. Why is it so hard for you to understand this? Trash talking on court by any athlete is not the same as the foul words used by guys in a bar fight. Different scenario...different context.

And yes its not the correct way to talk to people...but KG and CV weren't "talking" on the court...you are making it sound like KG refers to people in the same manner off court also.

Why is it different though?  It shouldn't be.  People treat athletes with different standards then others.  If i had a friend with the same disease as CV and we were playing basketball and someone starts running his mouth saying dude, you look like a cancer patient.  I would not just sit there and say wow, he's just trash talking that's okay.  I would step in and say something to him, because what he said was wrong.  No matter where it is said, it's wrong.  You do not make fun of a person for something which they have no control over.  It's the same thing as making fun of someone who is gay or black.  They do not have control over that situation.  

I'm so with you Mbz and I won't let anyone here bully me into changing my attitude to their attitude. Your response here is right on and very logical.

I do think players are role models and I know that I myself often look up to them for their amazing talent. I always want to think they're good people too or I can no longer look up to them.

This reminds me of school officials telling me when my own son was being bullied to stay out of it and make him take it like a man..that's life...and all that stuff. Well, it's not life. It's not normal and my son grew up to be extremely manly and it wasn't because of being bullied; it was because he had great character and cared for others. He was a soldier who fought in combat in Iraq.

There is a reason that bullying is being stopped in schools - finally - now. It's wrong, cowardly and not manly in any way.

I agree 100%.  It is wrong and cowardly.  This is bullying at it's finest.  We've had so many issues with bullying in this world recently and when an athlete does it, it's just looked upon as being okay.  This is the issue with sports fans in general.  People look at these guys as if they are heroes and people we should look up to.  Well, let's get real, these are not people we should look up to.  I will give Charles Barkley all the credit in the world for saying I am NOT a role model.  I wish more athletes did it.  Did CV mess up by posting it on twitter? Absolutely.  Does that make what KG said right? Not at all.  Everyone is acting like it's okay because apparently the game of basketball is like a war.  If KG says something like this with a gun pointed at him, then it's whatever.  He did not though, he said it playing a GAME.  Basketball is a game.  Now I love basketball, but it's not something that should ever be put higher then one's family or beliefs.

[barefacedmonk]

It is wrong and cowardly.  This is bullying at it's finest.  We've had so many issues with bullying in this world recently and when an athlete does it, it's just looked upon as being okay.  This is the issue with sports fans in general.  People look at these guys as if they are heroes and people we should look up to.  Well, let's get real, these are not people we should look up to.  I will give Charles Barkley all the credit in the world for saying I am NOT a role model.  I wish more athletes did it.  Did CV mess up by posting it on twitter? Absolutely.  Does that make what KG said right? Not at all.  Everyone is acting like it's okay because apparently the game of basketball is like a war.  If KG says something like this with a gun pointed at him, then it's whatever.  He did not though, he said it playing a GAME.  Basketball is a game.  Now I love basketball, but it's not something that should ever be put higher then one's family or beliefs.

Cowardly? Was this a fight where KG ran off to avoid a beat down?

Here is the definition of bullying:

The act of intimidating a weaker person to make them do something.

Did KG force CV to do something against his will?

Bullying is a form of abuse. It comprises repeated acts over time that involves a real or perceived imbalance of power with the more powerful individual or group abusing those who are less powerful.

CV challenged KG to a fight and claimed he would "expose" him...is he really the less powerful individual here?

And no basketball athlete calls themeselves a role model...if you look upto them as one...then its your fault.

And since so many people here are quick to call KG a coward and "what he did was not manly" etc. Here is the definition of coward:

A person who shows fear or timidity

Cowardice, in general terms, is the perceived failure to demonstrate sufficient robustness in the face of a challenging situation.

We all know who was the timid one in this situation.

A basketball game or any sports is not the place to learn moral science and "how to talk" to people...you'll always be disappointed.

[GreenFaith1819]

BFM - I have to disagree with your last comment there -

"A basketball game or any sports is not the place to learn moral science and "how to talk" to people...you'll always be disappointed."

Besides the Kobe's and KG's of the game, there was a man named David Robinson.

He played the game the way I'd like my own son to play it. Same with Ray Allen.

To me, there is still a way to play Basketball or any sport to where your son or daughter won't be embarrassed. That's why they have awards for SportsPerson of the Year.

[barefacedmonk]

BFM - I have to disagree with your last comment there -

"A basketball game or any sports is not the place to learn moral science and "how to talk" to people...you'll always be disappointed."

Besides the Kobe's and KG's of the game, there was a man named David Robinson.

He played the game the way I'd like my own son to play it. Same with Ray Allen.

To me, there is still a way to play Basketball or any sport to where your son or daughter won't be embarrassed.

You'll always have an exception to a rule. Yea, I agree all the profanity and trash talk is not needed...but if some player does it then I don't see anything wrong with it. It happens on court...and they leave it there. You can spin this around and teach your kids to forgive and forget, right?

Also, do you think the friction between Dennis Rodman and DR was "cordial"? I'm sure DR had his moments too...maybe not in public view...but there is a reason why Rodman was traded.

Lastly, the 'sports person of the year' awards are given based on performance..and to a less extent all the charity work the athletes do and help the community. Do you think KG has never done any of that?

EDIT: Also, Ray Allen is guilty of this in his past too...he wasn't someone to run his mouth as much as Kobe or KG..or even our captain PP...but he had his moments in Milwaukee and Seattle.

[Celtics4ever]

Most the NBA players are not good fighters and all they do is posture and take girly punches.  At lot of guys talk tough but when punched for real by someone who can punch with force they wilt.   I hit few guys in the service who were talking crap or playing dirty in a game with me, one of them balled and begged me not to hurt him again, another went to the dentist with a teeth split in two top to bottom and another thought he was the man but didn't need held back by his team mates and left the game.  Most NBA players don't know how to fight and are pretend tough.

I have cancer and KG didn't offend me.  I get the sense, he is fake tough guy though.  I think CV is too.  There have been some tough guys in the league.  Kermit Washington for one, Dave Cowens definitely was one, almost all the Russell Era Celtics were tough.  But this new generation is not that tough.   You get arrested for punching nowadays and they all play gangster with their guns so fisticuffs is a lost art.  I don't they can handle guns either btw.  I would much rather have a mac10 or sawed off shotgun than a 9mm in a street fight as would any smart man.  But its all about the image.  These guys are posturing to see who will back down and that is it.  A real fight would take it right out of them.   A tough guy isn't going to care if they are muscular or tall they are just going to try to make them pay.  These guys have too much to loose to be fighting for real.  Even Artest in Game when he went into the stands was a joke if you watch the punches he threw all arm and no legs in them.

Ray Allen has been in fights in the NBA guys.  He is a class act but he has thrown down.  Robinson used to get pretty physical with Karl Malone too and got knocked out once by him.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2291088

[dlpin]

Barefaced Monk, how about sticking to the subject at hand instead of trying to put me down. That's not a logical way to argue a point, is it?
Whether KG said you look like you have cancer or you are a cancer to your team and the league, both of those are horrible statements.
I disagree with saying there's nothing wrong with it. And I certainly don't believe all players trash talk. KG does; he's famous for it. Now we get a little hint of the flavor of trash talk he prefers.

Cripple, gimp, retarded, lame, midget, pinhead, numbskull are all words that refer to medical or mental conditions that have been appropriated by many to be used as insults. I don't know if you've ever personally used any of them to insult someone, but I am pretty sure you know someone who has. Do you demand a public apology from them too?


Similarly, trash talking is commonplace not only in professional sports, but amateur and recreational sports as well. Do you demand public apologies from all of them as well?


And before you insist on saying that this is because I think what KG said was or wasn't ok, the issue isn't that at all. It is about double standards. It is about writers looking for a news story because there isn't much going on this early in the season. And it is because KG is an easy target.

And please, can we stop with the "bullying" crap. Not every insult automatically becomes bullying. Stop trying to transpose whatever is going on with your children or whatever happened when you were children to this. This is about one grown multimillionaire privately insulting another grown multimillionaire.

[barefacedmonk]

Barefaced Monk, how about sticking to the subject at hand instead of trying to put me down. That's not a logical way to argue a point, is it?
Whether KG said you look like you have cancer or you are a cancer to your team and the league, both of those are horrible statements.
I disagree with saying there's nothing wrong with it. And I certainly don't believe all players trash talk. KG does; he's famous for it. Now we get a little hint of the flavor of trash talk he prefers.

Cripple, gimp, retarded, lame, midget, pinhead, numbskull are all words that refer to medical or mental conditions that have been appropriated by many to be used as insults. I don't know if you've ever personally used any of them to insult someone, but I am pretty sure you know someone who has. Do you demand a public apology from them too?


Similarly, trash talking is commonplace not only in professional sports, but amateur and recreational sports as well. Do you demand public apologies from all of them as well?


And before you insist on saying that this is because I think what KG said was or wasn't ok, the issue isn't that at all. It is about double standards. It is about writers looking for a news story because there isn't much going on this early in the season. And it is because KG is an easy target.

And please, can we stop with the "bullying" crap. Not every insult automatically becomes bullying. Stop trying to transpose whatever is going on with your children or whatever happened when you were children to this. This is about one grown multimillionaire privately insulting another grown multimillionaire.

Another TP.

We are all guilty of using/having used words that can be considered offensive...this holier than thou attitude is sickening. Hypocrites is what we are...nobody is perfect..yet we judge others.

[GreenFaith1819]

BFM - My oldest son has already started mimicking David, Ray and Tim Duncan - as far as behavior on the court. The first time my son heard KG's mouth? On TV, no doubt.

He loves KG, but not the mouth. To each his own, I suppose. He made that choice by himself.

Timmy has won Banners, too.

My thoughts about Dennis and why he was traded? You have proof? Links?

Sportsman of the Year? Yes - you are correct with what it means. But with that charity work comes the spirit of how one conducts themselves on the court, as well as off.

[barefacedmonk]

BFM - My oldest son has already started mimicking David, Ray and Tim Duncan - as far as behavior on the court. The first time my son heard KG's mouth? On TV, no doubt.

You think those players never uttered a foul word when they were wearing their jerseys. Alright

I hope your kid doesn't learn to elbow a guy in that area though...like Ray did...that would be dirty, right?

[barefacedmonk]

BFM - My oldest son has already started mimicking David, Ray and Tim Duncan - as far as behavior on the court. The first time my son heard KG's mouth? On TV, no doubt.

You think those players never uttered a foul word when they were wearing their jerseys. Alright

I hope your kid doesn't learn to elbow a guy in that area though...like Ray did...that would be dirty, right?

Friction between Dennis Rodman, Robinson, and other players had injured the squad's chemistry, so management traded the rebounding specialist to the Chicago Bulls, where he would help Michael Jordan win three more titles.

[GreenFaith1819]

BFM - don't be facetious.

You know very well what I mean. So, are we to just tell our children to cuss up a storm, kick and fight while they play sports?

Anything to win, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LPIUI_CY44

Anything?

[indeedproceed]

BFM - I have to disagree with your last comment there -

"A basketball game or any sports is not the place to learn moral science and "how to talk" to people...you'll always be disappointed."

Besides the Kobe's and KG's of the game, there was a man named David Robinson.

He played the game the way I'd like my own son to play it. Same with Ray Allen.

To me, there is still a way to play Basketball or any sport to where your son or daughter won't be embarrassed. That's why they have awards for SportsPerson of the Year.

If you think Ray Allen and/or David Robinson has never said anything intimidating, hurtful, or overly personal and aggressive while playing basketball, you're wrong. I don't need tape to prove it, its just human nature.

These guys aren't John Smith, public accountant, but with a 7ft wingspan and a deft shooting touch. How do you think they got to be so good at basketball?

Its a hyper competitive need to be better, along with the discipline to achieve those needs. And these guys aren't the dude from Tin Cup waiting on the perfect swing..they're playing first their brothers, sisters, fathers, neighbors in extremely personal and combative games of pickup.

Then, they take those lessons of reward for their hyper competitiveness to high school, where they just HAD to be better than the upperclassmen. You don't get to 25 points and 11 rebounds as a junior by being a nice guy.

Then, they took that confidence and their natural gifts AND their hyper competitiveness to college, where they honed them even further (or went straight to the pros, ala KG). And so on.

Ray Allen has bullied people on the court. David Robinson bullied people on the court. Its how it goes. That doesn't mean they chased the other kids home after school with the threats of a beat down. There are different types of bullying, and in sports, its okay to humiliate your opponent. Sure, some people play for the fun of the game, but those guys play on Sundays at the Y. They don't play Madison Square Garden.

Sports aren't nice. They're a competition, and in the pros, wins matter. Heck, when I played football, my greatest joy as a defensive lineman was looking across that line of scrimmage and seeing a dude that I was going to absolutely victimize. And, if he was as good or better than me, I didn't just give up. There are a million dirty tricks you pick up over time, and I'd keep using them until I found one that works.

There is a part I think you're missing, or not acknowledging. You shake hands after the game. At the end of the day we're all just regular guys who like to play the same sport and had the fate of growing up in different areas, or getting drafted by different teams or whatever. We're not different, we might even be friends off the court/field/pitch.

But during the game, that worthless Godless immoral scumbag across from you wants to dominate you, take your lunch money, and date your sister. You gotta defend your house, man.

Can some guys take it too far? Sure they can. But in pro sports, college sports, high school sports, heck some pickup games..the guys who get called on it are the guys who go too far and lose. 

I play rugby now, and that's a great example of what I'm talking about. I have literally punched a guy in the face on the bottom of a ruck (its complicated if you don't know what I'm talking about, but picture a hybrid baby of a fumble in football and the snap of the ball at the line of scrimmage) because I thought he deserved it for one stupid reason or another. After the game, we have a drinkup, and we talk about how much of a jerk we were while we get hammered. That's the sportsmanship I like.

If you have a bully in sports, either beat him or quit. Don't complain after the game, and don't post that garbage on twitter.

[barefacedmonk]

BFM - I have to disagree with your last comment there -

"A basketball game or any sports is not the place to learn moral science and "how to talk" to people...you'll always be disappointed."

Besides the Kobe's and KG's of the game, there was a man named David Robinson.

He played the game the way I'd like my own son to play it. Same with Ray Allen.

To me, there is still a way to play Basketball or any sport to where your son or daughter won't be embarrassed. That's why they have awards for SportsPerson of the Year.

If you think Ray Allen and/or David Robinson has never said anything intimidating, hurtful, or overly personal and aggressive while playing basketball, you're wrong. I don't need tape to prove it, its just human nature.

These guys aren't John Smith, public accountant, but with a 7ft wingspan and a deft shooting touch. How do you think they got to be so good at basketball?

Its a hyper competitive need to be better, along with the discipline to achieve those needs. And these guys aren't the dude from Tin Cup waiting on the perfect swing..they're playing first their brothers, sisters, fathers, neighbors in extremely personal and combative games of pickup.

Then, they take those lessons of reward for their hyper competitiveness to high school, where they just HAD to be better than the upperclassmen. You don't get to 25 points and 11 rebounds as a junior by being a nice guy.

Then, they took that confidence and their natural gifts AND their hyper competitiveness to college, where they honed them even further (or went straight to the pros, ala KG). And so on.

Ray Allen has bullied people on the court. David Robinson bullied people on the court. Its how it goes. That doesn't mean they chased the other kids home after school with the threats of a beat down. There are different types of bullying, and in sports, its okay to humiliate your opponent. Sure, some people play for the fun of the game, but those guys play on Sundays at the Y. They don't play Madison Square Garden.

Sports aren't nice. They're a competition, and in the pros, wins matter. Heck, when I played football, my greatest joy as a defensive lineman was looking across that line of scrimmage and seeing a dude that I was going to absolutely victimize. And, if he was as good or better than me, I didn't just give up. There are a million dirty tricks you pick up over time, and I'd keep using them until I found one that works.

There is a part I think you're missing, or not acknowledging. You shake hands after the game. At the end of the day we're all just regular guys who like to play the same sport and had the fate of growing up in different areas, or getting drafted by different teams or whatever. We're not different, we might even be friends off the court/field/pitch.

But during the game, that worthless Godless immoral scumbag across from you wants to dominate you, take your lunch money, and date your sister. You gotta defend your house, man.

Can some guys take it too far? Sure they can. But in pro sports, college sports, high school sports, heck some pickup games..the guys who get called on it are the guys who go too far and lose. 

I play rugby now, and that's a great example of what I'm talking about. I have literally punched a guy in the face on the bottom of a ruck (its complicated if you don't know what I'm talking about, but picture a hybrid baby of a fumble in football and the snap of the ball at the line of scrimmage) because I thought he deserved it for one stupid reason or another. After the game, we have a drinkup, and we talk about how much of a jerk we were while we get hammered. That's the sportsmanship I like.

If you have a bully in sports, either beat him or quit. Don't after the game, and don't post that garbage on twitter.

Agree with all of this...well said. TP.

[dlpin]

BFM - don't be facetious.

You know very well what I mean. So, are we to just tell our children to cuss up a storm, kick and fight while they play sports?

Anything to win, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LPIUI_CY44

Anything?

Yes, because trash talking is the exact same thing as playing dirty and trying to intentionally hurt a player  .