Danny...Please waive Von Wafer

[jasail]

Delonte was the cause of all this, not Von Wafer. Delonte is a loser if he sucker punched Von Wafer. I don't care if he's mentally ill or not. You can be mentally ill and still have enough class not to punch someone in the back.
Von Wafer needs to be given the benefit of the doubt. Look at Delonte's history.
I was glad to have Delonte at first but if he is this immature and emotional, and classless, he needs to be let go. He's just not worth it.

I agree, but not to your extreme lol. Delonte is a headcase throughout his whole career and I do feel like Boston is the best place for him to recover some of his lost image. I am a supporter for Delonte and wish the best for him. Therefore, I would hate to see him go. But I really do not understand why there is so much negativity on Wafer. Let's get this straight, DELONTE WAS THE INSTIGATOR! NOT WAFER!

I don't get why everyone is jumping on Wafer and assume he's the bad guy in this situation. I think everyone is playing the "I think Wafer is not as skillful as Delonte, so no matter what happens I am going to back Delonte up". This style of thinking is biased to say the least.

I agree.  It's ridiculous to want to release Wafer because Delonte acted like a punk. I understand why though.  Delonte can probably help the team more so people are siding with him no matter how wrong he was.  But if you want to keep Delonte regardless of what he did, just say so, but don't demonize Wafer.

Absolutely agree with you bankshot.  IMO Delonte is the better player and the better fit for this team as he can handle the ball and is a solid defensive player. He is potentially a very strong 6th man, Wafer is the 12th man.  If you have to get rid of someone, no doubt in my mind it is Wafer based on talent alone, even if the guy was a saint.  If West is only having problems with him then it is an easy decision. But lets at least give wafer the benefit of the doubt. 

[LooseCannon]

The problem isn't that Von Wafer as involved in a physical altercation with a teammate.  The problem is that Von Wafer may have used the media to tear down a teammate who he is competing with for playing time.  If true, that would mean he is a) talking to people he shouldn't be talking to about things that should remain within the team and b) putting himself before what is best for the team.

From what I have read, it fits with Von Wafer's history to do something like that.  And he would probably do the same sort of thing to Ray Allen if he thought it would be to his benefit.  If Marquis Daniels goes down with an injury, Wafer might have the stones to whisper (or have someone in his camp whisper) to some reporter that the Celtics are considering moving Ray Allen to a sixth man bench role getting 30mpg backing up both wing positions and starting Wafer. 

OK, that might be a bit of a stretch, but it wouldn't exactly shock me if that actually happened.

[wdleehi]

I have no issue the Celtics cutting the cord sooner rather then later is not because of a fight.


Fights happen.




I have no issue the Celtics waiving him is because he adds nothing to this team.  No defense.  The so called shot is not there. 


He is a useless lump on the bench with a tiny contract.  He isn't even that useful of a contract.

[Tai]

There's no point in cutting Wafer over one thing. I do find it gutless if he indeed told the media something that more or less, was not true. I have to believe Wafer was given a good talking to by Doc, Danny, hell, maybe some of the veterans.

Other than that, saying you want Wafer out in favor of West doesn't say much when Wafer is still more talented than Lasme. People wanna talk about Wafer's partial-guaranteed contract meaning nothing, which is agreeable assuming Wafer really does become enough of a malcontent, but I think part of the reason he has that is because he does have SOME NBA talent. Whether he sticks around long enough to put it to use here or on another team is up to him.

[mmbaby]

Delonte was the cause of all this, not Von Wafer. Delonte is a loser if he sucker punched Von Wafer. I don't care if he's mentally ill or not. You can be mentally ill and still have enough class not to punch someone in the back.
Von Wafer needs to be given the benefit of the doubt. Look at Delonte's history.
I was glad to have Delonte at first but if he is this immature and emotional, and classless, he needs to be let go. He's just not worth it.

And you know all this how?

Know what, Thirsty Boots?

I still haven't heard what Von Wafer did that was so wrong in the past. It's all very vague stuff that I can't make any sense of. I'm standing up for the attackee in this fight rather than the attacker, like I always do. People are too quick to jump to conclusions when there is a fight that both fighters are guilty. It seems to me that the info we actually really do have makes Delonte look like a punk. Now maybe it is because of his Bipolar, but that doesn't excuse a cowardly sucker punch.

[barefacedmonk]

I still haven't heard what Von Wafer did that was so wrong in the past. It's all very vague stuff that I can't make any sense of.

There was sideline drama, too. Houston's Von Wafer was escorted to the locker room at the end of the third quarter after he was seen exchanging words with coach Rick Adelman.

This....and for more info regarding the latest incident, visit the front page. All reports are pointing to the fact that Wafer might have instigated this whole thing.

From front page:

Actually, the Celts do have an idea, with sources saying they believe the entire report emanated from the Wafer camp. The Celtics’ current plan is that West will enter the rotation when he returns, and Wafer will move deeper down the bench.

If you believe anonymous sources that claim Delonte is at fault...then we have anonymous sources that say Wafer might be at fault to begin with....and please stop throwing words like "coward" and "loser"...this wasn't a boxing match and Delonte didn't pull a Mike Tyson...Delonte is far from being a loser...he is a good player who can contribute to a championship squad.

Lastly, a skirmish among team mates during a practice is not very uncommon. Here is one from the Lakers camp (2008-2009 season).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spyRTt24-i0

[jimmehx]

I'm about done with Wafer too.

He might provide some assistance throughout the season but it won't come near what Delonte can provide.

If he's going to be starting trouble it's just not worth the hassle.

[thirstyboots18]

Delonte was the cause of all this, not Von Wafer. Delonte is a loser if he sucker punched Von Wafer. I don't care if he's mentally ill or not. You can be mentally ill and still have enough class not to punch someone in the back.
Von Wafer needs to be given the benefit of the doubt. Look at Delonte's history.
I was glad to have Delonte at first but if he is this immature and emotional, and classless, he needs to be let go. He's just not worth it.

And you know all this how?

Know what, Thirsty Boots?

I still haven't heard what Von Wafer did that was so wrong in the past. It's all very vague stuff that I can't make any sense of. I'm standing up for the attackee in this fight rather than the attacker, like I always do. People are too quick to jump to conclusions when there is a fight that both fighters are guilty. It seems to me that the info we actually really do have makes Delonte look like a punk. Now maybe it is because of his Bipolar, but that doesn't excuse a cowardly sucker punch.

How do you know who was at fault and how this all came about?  Do you have personal knowledge that could help Danny and Doc get to the bottom of this?  Or are you trying to sway everyone's opinion based on one quote from someone you don't even know?  Seems to me that you are "sucker punching" Delonte.  I prefer to let people who are at least looking for the truth make the decisions, and they consider what is best for the  team.  Have you not read anything that came out after the original report? 

[merkinmuffly]

Delonte was the cause of all this, not Von Wafer. Delonte is a loser if he sucker punched Von Wafer. I don't care if he's mentally ill or not. You can be mentally ill and still have enough class not to punch someone in the back.
Von Wafer needs to be given the benefit of the doubt. Look at Delonte's history.
I was glad to have Delonte at first but if he is this immature and emotional, and classless, he needs to be let go. He's just not worth it.

And you know all this how?

Know what, Thirsty Boots?

I still haven't heard what Von Wafer did that was so wrong in the past. It's all very vague stuff that I can't make any sense of. I'm standing up for the attackee in this fight rather than the attacker, like I always do. People are too quick to jump to conclusions when there is a fight that both fighters are guilty. It seems to me that the info we actually really do have makes Delonte look like a punk. Now maybe it is because of his Bipolar, but that doesn't excuse a cowardly sucker punch.

How do you know who was at fault and how this all came about?  Do you have personal knowledge that could help Danny and Doc get to the bottom of this?  Or are you trying to sway everyone's opinion based on one quote from someone you don't even know?  Seems to me that you are "sucker punching" Delonte.  I prefer to let people who are at least looking for the truth make the decisions, and they consider what is best for the  team.  Have you not read anything that came out after the original report? 

Yeah, poor delonte, we still don't know who was at fault, he was totally justified in coming up behind wafer and cowardly hitting him in the back, you have to understand that being a punk is considered a hero to the nba thug nation now, we all know wafer's evil past in houston and know West has never had any issues and was suspended unjustly.

[merkinmuffly]

I agree, get rid of wafer, how dare he get sucker punched in the back of the head by D. West.  West is totally guiltless here, he hasn't done anything but get suspended for being a punk.  I also think that if Pierce gets sucker punched in the back of the head we should think about moving him, because west is a fragile soul and no telling what will set him off, it's not his fault that he's a gutless thug and likes to hit people when they are not looking

[LooseCannon]

Von Wafer is really just a bad fit for the Celtics.  He doesn't care about defense.  He has poorer rebounding statistics than Nate Robinson.  He's a selfish offensive player who only cares about his own shot.  He's ideal for a Mike D'Antoni-coached team, though.

The guy has always been a problem child with a reputation as a cancer who disrupts team chemistry.  At Florida State, he was benched at times and I get the feeling that he was encouraged to declare early for the NBA draft because the team wanted to be rid of him.  During a pre-draft workout, he got frustrated, elbowed the guy he was working against, and stormed off the court.  He was reported to be a malcontent when he was in Portland.  He had similar problems in Houston and was said to occasionally storm out of practice when he didn't have his way.  Most notably, he had that hissy fit in the playoff game against the Lakers, when he threw a water bottle and argued with Rick Adelman after being taken out of a game, leading to him being sent to the locker room.  He went to Europe and got benched by his team in Greece because of attitude problems.

[thirstyboots18]

We do not even know that a sucker punch occurred...only that there was a fight.  It may very well have, but no one has confirmed that, including Wafer, Danny, Doc or Delonte.  And if you believe everything you read, it has been reported that reports of the incident were leaked by Wafer's camp.  I haven't heard one Celtic team mate say anything against either player...I am still withholding my judgement.  

And I still think that the two players should prove on the court which one can help the team more.  If you are discounting  the effect of effort and passion in the play of Delonte, you will have to discount the effect of effort and passion in Glen Davis.  He has hurt the team in the past with immaturity and lack of self control, too.  Talent is a great equalizer.  If you have to cut every player who has had an issue, you would probably be left with a very short line up....maybe Ray Allen?    


Right now I feel we need both players.  Wafer is PP's only real backup, and Delonte can play two, possibly three, positions and may be our best option at all three of them.

[Andy Jick]

2 questions that I'm curious about...

1) Did the Celtics realize what they were getting into when they re-signed Delonte and brought him back to the team?

2) To what extent should the Celtics' organization help and/or protect Delonte?

I am not suggesting in this thread that Delonte is without fault.  But I do believe, however, that Wafer is a bad seed and that it could very well be possible that he and Delonte cannot co-exist on this roster.

If that's the case (and I'm not sure yet that it is), but if it is, should the Celtics provide Delonte with a stable organization to help him, not only as a basketball player (and I believe he's still a good one) but as a person?

The older I get the more I see people as people, and not just as iconic figures...  If it's true that 1) Wafer made demeaning remarks about Delonte (possibly making fun of a mental illness) and 2) took his comments to Twitter, knowing full well that he was trying to paint Delonte in a bad light, should the Celtics' organization keep someone who could have a negative influence on the culture of this team?

I believe that Doc and Danny are very upset about this getting out into the public, and possibly more so than the actual altercation having occurred.  Afterall, things like this have happened before (as noted here in this thread).  So this is not a unique situation.  But with the NBA culture becoming as it is (ie. Gilbert Arenas and the guns in the locker room situation in Washington) don't think for one second that NBA security won't be monitoring this situation closely. 

I don't think all the facts have yet been ascertained, but my gut tells me that Delonte, because of his ties to this organization, will get the stronger benefit of the doubt.

[wiley]

I greatly appreciate your balanced approach to this issue, Andy.  TP.

To those who are demonizing one player or the other, in terms of character, not basketball, I ask you:  Who are you?  Saints hanging out with angels?

[ForexPirate]

seems like there are a lot of people from Wafer's posse that seem to know more than the reports in the papers.  All I remember is reading that Delonte was blowing by him in camp and wafer was upset and delonte said "then do something about it".  Just makes sense that there has been friction there ever since.

Wafer needs to step up and take advantage of the opportunity he has right now to show what he can do.  So far I have seen nothing on the court and a cause of friction in the locker room.  His posse may be trying to help him with accusations of d west sucker punching wafer but they are going to help him right out of s job if they keep publicizing a private matter.