Baby is Getting Better and Better!

[Fafnir]

Sorry about that folks, pay no attention to mods clicking the wrong buttons behind the curtain. 

[fairweatherfan]

I'm biased, because I hate stats in general.  I just think it is pretty clear by watching them play that Davis is more likely to finish at the rim than Perkins is.  Maybe there are more advanced stats that can prove me wrong...but until I see them, I will stick with what my eyes see.

My impression is that Baby is very good at finishing around the rim when he can take a step and lay it in on the move, but very bad when he has to put up an attempt from a flat-footed position.  Most of his blocked shots come from the latter situation.

[Chris]

I'm biased, because I hate stats in general.  I just think it is pretty clear by watching them play that Davis is more likely to finish at the rim than Perkins is.  Maybe there are more advanced stats that can prove me wrong...but until I see them, I will stick with what my eyes see.

Honestly I don't see how that's all that possible, every data point says that Perkins makes a great percentage of his shots.

I think as far as post ups go because Perkins turns it over about 25% of the time in the post you might be right. But when it comes to making shots on the rim Perkins is better.

Baby is more skilled, but being 6'9" with long arms is more important than skill when it comes to putting the ball in the hoop.

Yes, he makes most of his shots.  But until I see a stat that takes into account getting the ball in a position to shoot and whether it is converted or not, I do not think these stats are relevant.

Its not like BBD doesn't fumble passes or turn the ball over.

I think you're essentially asking for the impossible because the data doesn't support your own beliefs. Maybe someone with synergy sports can help you out. (*cough*Jeff/jdapa*cough*/)

They might have the right settings to break it down enough for you.

Yes, I am asking for the impossible given the stats we have.  And that is my point.  We don't have the stats to show this.  While the stats you gave are interesting, I think there are still too many variables for them to answer the question here.

[Donoghus]

I'm biased, because I hate stats in general.  I just think it is pretty clear by watching them play that Davis is more likely to finish at the rim than Perkins is.  Maybe there are more advanced stats that can prove me wrong...but until I see them, I will stick with what my eyes see.

Honestly I don't see how that's all that possible, every data point says that Perkins makes a great percentage of his shots.

I think as far as post ups go because Perkins turns it over about 25% of the time in the post you might be right. But when it comes to making shots on the rim Perkins is better.

Baby is more skilled, but being 6'9" with long arms is more important than skill when it comes to putting the ball in the hoop.

Yes, he makes most of his shots.  But until I see a stat that takes into account getting the ball in a position to shoot and whether it is converted or not, I do not think these stats are relevant.

Its not like BBD doesn't fumble passes or turn the ball over.

I think you're essentially asking for the impossible because the data doesn't support your own beliefs. Maybe someone with synergy sports can help you out. (*cough*Jeff/jdapa*cough*/)

They might have the right settings to break it down enough for you.

Yes, I am asking for the impossible given the stats we have.  And that is my point.  We don't have the stats to show this.  While the stats you gave are interesting, I think there are still too many variables for them to answer the question here.

You mean stats don't tell the whole story?  You don't say...   

[mmbaby]

Baby's turnovers are at almost zero this season and he had none last night which is a stand-out stat for this team.

I don't think his rebounding numbers are bad and he was the best offensive rebounder last season, as I recall.

His defense is what I find to be so awesome. That, alone, helps the team more than anything else.

His shots are not being blocked anymore since he's figured out a way to muscle up and/or turn around and quickly slip the ball in. Jump shot is much, much more consistent. His BB IQ is great and he seems totally aware of his game environment at all times.

[EJPLAYA]

I would agree completley that he is getting better. He was one of the few guys last night that I thought was playing hard. He seems to have learned that when he gets a board underneath our basket that pump faking and then going up isn't going to be successful.

Where I have trouble though is knowing that he could be that much better if he truly committed himself to a conditioning program and ate better. It's what he COULD be that is frustrating, not that he isn't gradually improving.

[Donoghus]

He has his big moments that certainly leave a lasting impression on those watching the games.  He's a hustler and plays with passion.  Fans love that.

He's a solid role player.  He's never going to be a superstar, nevermind an allstar.  I'm not sure he's a guy that you'd even want starting on a title contender.   He's an above average role player.

I'm still not enthralled with his rebounding ability.  He does seem more confident in his jumper which is a good thing.  He does seem to have an uncanny ability to finish around the basket (when he isn't getting blocked). 

[paul]

Oh how I long for a day when folks stop assuming that stats are the end all and be all of human cognition.   Stats should be a tool.  They are not the holy grail.

[Fafnir]

Oh how I long for a day when folks stop assuming that stats are the end all and be all of human cognition.   Stats should be a tool.  They are not the holy grail.

When you're comparing the offensive efficiency of two players who attempt only single digit shots most games stats are a necessary tool.

Otherwise recall bias dominates your opinions.

[Chris]

Oh how I long for a day when folks stop assuming that stats are the end all and be all of human cognition.   Stats should be a tool.  They are not the holy grail.

When you're comparing the offensive efficiency of two players who attempt only single digit shots most games stats are a necessary tool.

Otherwise recall bias dominates your opinions.

I would argue because they shoot so few shots, it makes stats a less effective tool.  Smaller sample size means less reliability.

But my biggest issue here is the question of how valid these stats are for answering the questions.  I think they are being used to answer questions that they cannot validly answer.

[Fafnir]

Oh how I long for a day when folks stop assuming that stats are the end all and be all of human cognition.   Stats should be a tool.  They are not the holy grail.

When you're comparing the offensive efficiency of two players who attempt only single digit shots most games stats are a necessary tool.

Otherwise recall bias dominates your opinions.

I would argue because they shoot so few shots, it makes stats a less effective tool.  Smaller sample size means less reliability.

But my biggest issue here is the question of how valid these stats are for answering the questions.  I think they are being used to answer questions that they cannot validly answer.

The sample size over the course of their careers is plenty big enough.

What the heck is the question? Because when it comes to finishing at the rim, that's been answered.

If you're talking about who's the better offensive player, then I agree that's not been answered by the stats I've given.

[Chris]

Oh how I long for a day when folks stop assuming that stats are the end all and be all of human cognition.   Stats should be a tool.  They are not the holy grail.

When you're comparing the offensive efficiency of two players who attempt only single digit shots most games stats are a necessary tool.

Otherwise recall bias dominates your opinions.

I would argue because they shoot so few shots, it makes stats a less effective tool.  Smaller sample size means less reliability.

But my biggest issue here is the question of how valid these stats are for answering the questions.  I think they are being used to answer questions that they cannot validly answer.

The sample size over the course of their careers is plenty big enough.

What the heck is the question? Because when it comes to finishing at the rim, that's been answered.

If you're talking about who's the better offensive player, then I agree that's not been answered by the stats I've given.

Maybe I am discussing a different question than you.  To me, the question about finishing in the rim means how often, when they get the ball in a scoring position at the rim, do they convert.  And to me, that question has not been answered.  We have answered who hits a higher percentage of shots at the rim.  But that is a different question.

[mmbaby]

I don't see Baby remaining a bench player. His ability to improve, his IQ, his ego  , his increasing defensive plays are all indicators for me that he will continue to get better.
He's already good now, so it bodes well for him in the future.

I do agree, though, that it takes a strong desire to stay in shape and with his body type it is more difficult. But I think he wants it enough to make that commitment.

[Assassin70]

So far so good, he came to play this year.  Good to see.

[Donoghus]

I don't see Baby remaining a bench player. His ability to improve, his IQ, his ego  , his increasing defensive plays are all indicators for me that he will continue to get better.
He's already good now, so it bodes well for him in the future.

I do agree, though, that it takes a strong desire to stay in shape and with his body type it is more difficult. But I think he wants it enough to make that commitment.

See, I think BBD is pretty close to his ceiling already.  He may improve his jumper and make small incremental improvements in his game but I don't think there's a big jump to another level awaiting BBD. 

Size-wise, he's not going to get any taller which will continue to work as a detriment sometimes.  If he can stay in shape, his agility should remain the same.  However, its going to become tougher and tougher to say in maximum shape.   That just happens with age.

If he's a starting PF on a team in the NBA, most likely than not, its a team that's close to lottery bound than title contender.