Doc: KG looked 'phenomenal and explosive' in first practice.

[Roy H.]

KG is just about washed up

Thank god.. He's been in the shower forever. Dude needs to learn to save some for the fishes.

hah but seriously... he's just about washed up.  I'm not gonna compare KG to Vin Baker or anything... but this fanbase has a tendency to make excuses for washed up players and grasp at any positive sign as proof "he's back, baby!" ... Kinda like how we all were hoping Sheed would suddenly stop stinking like he did his final season in Detroit once motivation was there... or like we hoped Stephon Marbury would stop stinking like he had in NY now that he had a defined role... and how we all hope Jermaine and Shaq don't stink like they have for the past half decade.   

KG's just about done.  There's no miracle turnaround coming.  He's been on a steady decline for 3 years.

  Steady decline means progressively worse. Did you think his play got worse as the year went on last season? I'd disagree with your claim.

Exactly larry barf what the heck r u talking about?

Are you guys kidding me?  It's widely acknowledged by most sane people outside of Boston homers that KG is on a major decline.

06-07 =  22.4 points, 12.8 rebounds, 4.1 assists, 1.7 blocks, 1.2 steals
07-08 = 18.8 points, 9.2 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 1.3 blocks, 1.4 steals
08-09 = 15.8 points, 8.5 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 1.2 blocks, 1.1 steals
09-10 = 14.3 points, 7.3 rebounds, 2.7 assists, .8 blocks, 1 steal

  Of course, when asked whether you think he got worse as last year progressed, you come back with stats for his last 4 years. No sane person, inside Boston or not, would think that KG was playing better in November than he was in May or June. Calling people homers for recognizing the obvious makes you sound pretty ridiculous. Is he the player he was in 2007? Of course not. Is he washed up? Obviously not.

Not that it matters a whole lot, but KG's best month last season, by far, was December.  His worst month, in terms of FG% and rebounding, was April.  I definitely don't think there was a season-long progression.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/garneke01/splits/2010/

[gar]

KG is just about washed up

Thank god.. He's been in the shower forever. Dude needs to learn to save some for the fishes.

hah but seriously... he's just about washed up.  I'm not gonna compare KG to Vin Baker or anything... but this fanbase has a tendency to make excuses for washed up players and grasp at any positive sign as proof "he's back, baby!" ... Kinda like how we all were hoping Sheed would suddenly stop stinking like he did his final season in Detroit once motivation was there... or like we hoped Stephon Marbury would stop stinking like he had in NY now that he had a defined role... and how we all hope Jermaine and Shaq don't stink like they have for the past half decade.   

KG's just about done.  There's no miracle turnaround coming.  He's been on a steady decline for 3 years.

  Steady decline means progressively worse. Did you think his play got worse as the year went on last season? I'd disagree with your claim.

Exactly larry barf what the heck r u talking about?

Are you guys kidding me?  It's widely acknowledged by most sane people outside of Boston homers that KG is on a major decline.

06-07 =  22.4 points, 12.8 rebounds, 4.1 assists, 1.7 blocks, 1.2 steals
07-08 = 18.8 points, 9.2 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 1.3 blocks, 1.4 steals
08-09 = 15.8 points, 8.5 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 1.2 blocks, 1.1 steals
09-10 = 14.3 points, 7.3 rebounds, 2.7 assists, .8 blocks, 1 steal

  Of course, when asked whether you think he got worse as last year progressed, you come back with stats for his last 4 years. No sane person, inside Boston or not, would think that KG was playing better in November than he was in May or June. Calling people homers for recognizing the obvious makes you sound pretty ridiculous. Is he the player he was in 2007? Of course not. Is he washed up? Obviously not.

Not that it matters a whole lot, but KG's best month last season, by far, was December.  His worst month, in terms of FG% and rebounding, was April.  I definitely don't think there was a season-long progression.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/garneke01/splits/2010/

Hardly a decisive trend line; but April rebounding numbers and regular season performances against LA are definite low points.

[LarBrd33]

Over the years, we've all seen situations like this. If I could sum up the general pattern it would be like this:
1. Aging star gets injured;
2. Aging star expresses optimism about recovery, claims will be "better than before";
3. Aging star makes initial comeback, which has a few moments of "good as before" and many more moments of "it's hard to watch, given how much we all love/respect this guy";
4. Next offseason, we hear about re-dedication to conditioning, full recovery etc., punctuated by a few gushing comments from teammates/coach;
5. The next year is worse, at least marginally and maybe even a lot.

I am not trying to be a killjoy here, but it is trivially easy to think about examples like this, from Celtics history and others'. There are very few counter-examples where the player - an older guy, specifically - comes back and matches his pre-injury form.

I will say that KG is about the last guy I'd bet against in this situation.

But, we need to be realistic about the odds, and we also need to filter any statements about how well KG is doing given everyone's strong desire to see him come back to "full strength" - whatever that is.

And frankly, we have a front 3 who have averaged 50-60 games each over the last three years and are only older. We have no assurance that Perkins will return this year at anything close to his previous level.

So, we have a lot of talent and are exposed to a lot of risk. Overall I'm hopeful, but I'm going to reserve judgment until mid-season at least on all of this.

That's what I'm saying.  We see it all the time.   

[BballTim]

KG is just about washed up

Thank god.. He's been in the shower forever. Dude needs to learn to save some for the fishes.

hah but seriously... he's just about washed up.  I'm not gonna compare KG to Vin Baker or anything... but this fanbase has a tendency to make excuses for washed up players and grasp at any positive sign as proof "he's back, baby!" ... Kinda like how we all were hoping Sheed would suddenly stop stinking like he did his final season in Detroit once motivation was there... or like we hoped Stephon Marbury would stop stinking like he had in NY now that he had a defined role... and how we all hope Jermaine and Shaq don't stink like they have for the past half decade.   

KG's just about done.  There's no miracle turnaround coming.  He's been on a steady decline for 3 years.

  Steady decline means progressively worse. Did you think his play got worse as the year went on last season? I'd disagree with your claim.

Exactly larry barf what the heck r u talking about?

Are you guys kidding me?  It's widely acknowledged by most sane people outside of Boston homers that KG is on a major decline.

06-07 =  22.4 points, 12.8 rebounds, 4.1 assists, 1.7 blocks, 1.2 steals
07-08 = 18.8 points, 9.2 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 1.3 blocks, 1.4 steals
08-09 = 15.8 points, 8.5 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 1.2 blocks, 1.1 steals
09-10 = 14.3 points, 7.3 rebounds, 2.7 assists, .8 blocks, 1 steal

  Of course, when asked whether you think he got worse as last year progressed, you come back with stats for his last 4 years. No sane person, inside Boston or not, would think that KG was playing better in November than he was in May or June. Calling people homers for recognizing the obvious makes you sound pretty ridiculous. Is he the player he was in 2007? Of course not. Is he washed up? Obviously not.

Not that it matters a whole lot, but KG's best month last season, by far, was December.  His worst month, in terms of FG% and rebounding, was April.  I definitely don't think there was a season-long progression.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/garneke01/splits/2010/

  You have to remember what happened last season, though. His knee was hurting at the beginning of the year and he was playing poorly. He began playing well and re-injured his knee. When he was getting healthy again the Celts were in serious coast mode. The point is that his play in the postseason was fine, good enough for the Celts to win the title. He didn't wear out over the season and his play didn't drop off much if at all during the season. He's not washed up and there's no real reason to expext a big dropoff this season when he should be healthier.

[BballTim]

Over the years, we've all seen situations like this. If I could sum up the general pattern it would be like this:
1. Aging star gets injured;
2. Aging star expresses optimism about recovery, claims will be "better than before";
3. Aging star makes initial comeback, which has a few moments of "good as before" and many more moments of "it's hard to watch, given how much we all love/respect this guy";
4. Next offseason, we hear about re-dedication to conditioning, full recovery etc., punctuated by a few gushing comments from teammates/coach;
5. The next year is worse, at least marginally and maybe even a lot.

I am not trying to be a killjoy here, but it is trivially easy to think about examples like this, from Celtics history and others'. There are very few counter-examples where the player - an older guy, specifically - comes back and matches his pre-injury form.

I will say that KG is about the last guy I'd bet against in this situation.

But, we need to be realistic about the odds, and we also need to filter any statements about how well KG is doing given everyone's strong desire to see him come back to "full strength" - whatever that is.

  Nobody expects him to come back to his 2007-2008 form. But I don't see why he can't play as well as he did in the playoffs last year, and that level of play was far above "washed up".

[indeedproceed]

actually I think most 'pro-kg' people expect 2007-08 kg

[Roy H.]

KG is just about washed up

Thank god.. He's been in the shower forever. Dude needs to learn to save some for the fishes.

hah but seriously... he's just about washed up.  I'm not gonna compare KG to Vin Baker or anything... but this fanbase has a tendency to make excuses for washed up players and grasp at any positive sign as proof "he's back, baby!" ... Kinda like how we all were hoping Sheed would suddenly stop stinking like he did his final season in Detroit once motivation was there... or like we hoped Stephon Marbury would stop stinking like he had in NY now that he had a defined role... and how we all hope Jermaine and Shaq don't stink like they have for the past half decade.   

KG's just about done.  There's no miracle turnaround coming.  He's been on a steady decline for 3 years.

  Steady decline means progressively worse. Did you think his play got worse as the year went on last season? I'd disagree with your claim.

Exactly larry barf what the heck r u talking about?

Are you guys kidding me?  It's widely acknowledged by most sane people outside of Boston homers that KG is on a major decline.

06-07 =  22.4 points, 12.8 rebounds, 4.1 assists, 1.7 blocks, 1.2 steals
07-08 = 18.8 points, 9.2 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 1.3 blocks, 1.4 steals
08-09 = 15.8 points, 8.5 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 1.2 blocks, 1.1 steals
09-10 = 14.3 points, 7.3 rebounds, 2.7 assists, .8 blocks, 1 steal

  Of course, when asked whether you think he got worse as last year progressed, you come back with stats for his last 4 years. No sane person, inside Boston or not, would think that KG was playing better in November than he was in May or June. Calling people homers for recognizing the obvious makes you sound pretty ridiculous. Is he the player he was in 2007? Of course not. Is he washed up? Obviously not.

Not that it matters a whole lot, but KG's best month last season, by far, was December.  His worst month, in terms of FG% and rebounding, was April.  I definitely don't think there was a season-long progression.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/garneke01/splits/2010/

  You have to remember what happened last season, though. His knee was hurting at the beginning of the year and he was playing poorly. He began playing well and re-injured his knee. When he was getting healthy again the Celts were in serious coast mode. The point is that his play in the postseason was fine, good enough for the Celts to win the title. He didn't wear out over the season and his play didn't drop off much if at all during the season. He's not washed up and there's no real reason to expext a big dropoff this season when he should be healthier.

I'm really hoping that the KG we see next year is better than Orlando / Lakers KG.  He was phenomenal in the first two rounds of the playoffs, but his offense dipped noticeably in the final two rounds, and his defense and rebounding were pretty mediocre to poor against LA.

It wasn't a steady, upward progression.  Rather, KG's play took a quick spike in the playoffs after his very poor April, peaking in his phenomenal Cleveland series.  From there, he declined.

From Doc's words, I'm hoping for a significantly better KG than we saw at the tail end of the playoffs.

[indeedproceed]

I imagine doc hopes a lot of things.

I hope kg is healthy too...i hope kg is healthy and rondo developed a better jumper after hours of practice and I hope greg oden is healthy all year and shaq doesn't make himself a distraction.

but just because I hope it doesn't make it a reality...it doesn't even make it probable in the context of recent history.

nobody is saying it can't happen....what im saying is that it is highly unlikely.

[Roy H.]

nobody is saying it can't happen....what im saying is that it is highly unlikely.

I wouldn't go so far as "highly" unlikely.  Lots of guys have looked better a full year removed from knee surgery, so I don't think a bit of a bounce back from KG would be all that out of the ordinary.  It's not something that we can count on, but it's also something that is pretty plausible.

I wouldn't expect any amazing, dramatic improvement, but I think there's a pretty good shot that he'll be better than he was last year.

[indeedproceed]

well...lets put it like this....can anyone name a 34 year old who returned after being injured for a year to have a year as good or better than when he was injured?

[GreenFaith1819]

drza44 - I like your wager, and I'm in.

If KG averages just 10 pts and 6 rebs this year, I'll go as far as sporting a Lakers Avatar for a month.

No way he averages just 10 and 6 this year. Bosh at 34? Sure he'll average 10 and 6.

I'm not trying to make the man out to be a mythical being or something, but I'm believing that he'll average just like I posted on page 3, I believe. I'll go a little further and believe that he may not average as many rebs with Shaq and JO onboard, but still he won't average just a paltry 10 and 6.

No way, Jose.