Baby Complaining

[mmbaby]

As I said, he is not appreciated here or by Doc. And of course Roy and the other mods on this blog have never had much good to say about him, so that is not expected to change, no matter what Baby does. There are a lot of fans here who like him, but the mods seem to try to discourage that, for whatever reason.
You find faults with him that all of the other players have displayed and act like he's the only one. Immaturity is a big talking point, but have you ever watched KG and his hissy fits or Perkins pouting. They are both long term veterans of the game.
Baby brings a breath of fresh air to the game, with his entertaining antics, along with his good basketball. I'd rather watch that than the negative cursing and creepy looks KG gives opponents, though I do love KG too.
Therefore, I hope to see him go to another team where he can develop and have the NBA career he is capable of.
When I hear the constant repeat of past mistakes, the endless airing of complaints that have long ago been disproven, the constant nitpicking and yes, whining, here from the same old people and almost every mod, the credibility factor goes way down in my book.

[Fan from VT]

As I said, he is not appreciated here or by Doc. And of course Roy and the other mods on this blog have never had much good to say about him, so that is not expected to change, no matter what Baby does. There are a lot of fans here who like him, but the mods seem to try to discourage that, for whatever reason.
You find faults with him that all of the other players have displayed and act like he's the only one. Immaturity is a big talking point, but have you ever watched KG and his hissy fits or Perkins pouting. They are both long term veterans of the game.
Baby brings a breath of fresh air to the game, with his entertaining antics, along with his good basketball. I'd rather watch that than the negative cursing and creepy looks KG gives opponents, though I do love KG too.
Therefore, I hope to see him go to another team where he can develop and have the NBA career he is capable of.
When I hear the constant repeat of past mistakes, the endless airing of complaints that have long ago been disproven, the constant nitpicking and yes, whining, here from the same old people and almost every mod, the credibility factor goes way down in my book.

Out of curiosity, Where do you want him to go? And what kind of numbers do you think he'd have at that destination?

What, exactly, have mods said about him that is untrue? I'm seriously wondering; I'd prefer to have an accurate and rational discussion instead of the hyperbolic ones that often occur.

[thirstyboots18]

mmmbaby, I am one who was down on Glen Davis.  As I have said in other threads, it took a while, but he did win me over.  He was used in a way, because of circumstances (injuries) in which he was set up for failure.  I do not think he should be an offensive low post player...he is just too short to battle with seven footers under the basket and get a good shot off.  Because of his size and strength and despite his lack of height, he can hold his own defensively, keeping slighter players away from the basket.  I think he is a very good bench player...and has done well when asked, as a starter.  However, as long as we have this wealth of All Stars and future Hall of Famers on this team Glen will be relegated to the bench.  His worth may be more on a lesser team and he may choose to go that way.  I have come to appreciate his hustle and energy, and his role on the Celtics seems to be to continue to bring that emotion when he comes off the bench.  Now that we also have Shaq, Delonte, and later, JO coming off the bench I am afraid his role may be diminished further.  I am sorry to say it, Glen Davis is talented, but there are others on the bench who are equally or more talented now.  I will always root for him in the future. (unless he is playing against us).  And you are right, he will mature at least as fast as some of his team mates, 

[Roy H.]

As I said, he is not appreciated here or by Doc. And of course Roy and the other mods on this blog have never had much good to say about him, so that is not expected to change, no matter what Baby does. There are a lot of fans here who like him, but the mods seem to try to discourage that, for whatever reason.

I'm pretty sure there's not a mod conspiracy against BBD.

I've defended him at times, and criticized him at times.  He's a good hustle / energy player, and he definitely has a role on the bench.  At the same time, he's got some weaknesses, and maturity is a huge one for me. 

It's disappointing to see the guy make himself the one distraction in an otherwise uniformly positive training camp.  The reason that Doc responded to him tersely is because the entire organization (from reports last year) has grown sick of his antics.  I had hoped that this would be the season that "Baby" began to grow up, but that doesn't look like it's happening.

[Jon]

He could easily be a starter for another team

Which Team? (Note: format = PF, PF/C, C)
Atlanta-No (Josh Smith/Horford)
Charlotte-No (Diaw, Thomas/Nazr)
Chicago-No (Boozer, Gibson/Noah)
Clebeland-No (Jameson, Hickson/Verejao)
Dallas-No (Dirk/Hayward, Chandler)
Denver-No (Harrington, Kenyon/Nene, Andersen)
Detroit-Small Chance (Villanueva, Maxiell, Jerebko/Ben Wallace)
Goledn State-No (Lee, Wright/Biedrins)
Houston-No (Scola, Hill/Ming, Brad Miller, Hayes)
Indiana-Decent to Probable (Hansbrough, McRoberts/Hibbert, Foster)
Clippers-No (Griffin, Craig Smith/Kaman)
Lakers-No (Ugh)
Memphis-No (Randolph, 50/50 with arthur/Gasol)
Miami-Probably not (Bosh, Haslem/Anthony, Ilgauskas)
Milwaukee-No (Gooden, Ilyasova, Mbah Moute/Bogut)
Minnesota-Probably not (Love, Beasley/Darko)
New Jersey-No (Murphy, Favors/Lopez)
New Orleans-No (West/Okafor)
New York-No (Amare, Randolph/Turiaf)
OKC-No (Green/Krstic, Ibaka)
Orlando-No (Lewis, Anderson, Bass/Howard, Gortat)
Philly-No (Brand, Young/Speights
Phoenix-Miniscule chance (Frye, Warrick/Lopez
Portland-No (Aldridge/Camby, Oden, Przybilla)
Sacramento-No (Landry, Thompson/Dalembert, Cousins)
San Antonio-No (Duncan, Blair/McDyess, Splitter)
Toronto-Probably should (though Toronto has to justify the Amir contract, so realistically maybe not!) (Amir, Evans/Bargnani)
Utah-No (Milsap, Jefferson/Okur)
Washingon-No (Blatche/McGee)

So really, I see no teams that would actively trade anything of value to get him to be their starter, and even as a free pickup, barring injury, I can count on one hand the teams where there's a SMALL chance MIGHT start if given a totally fair shot at the job. That number shrinks if you consider playing style (remove New York and maybe Phoenix from that chance) and consider young teams developing more upside players (Washington, Minny). Indiana and Detroit he'd have a small chance; Toronto decent.

I agree.  If any team thought he was starting material, he wouldn't have had to crawl back to Boston after testing the free agent markets in '09.  His stock was never higher then and he still couldn't get better than 2 years 6 million dollars. 

While he's a nice player, he's a career backup.  And given that that's the case, his only real value to the team is in the short term (you don't waste salary space during rebuilding on "the backup power forward of the future").  And if we find ourselves with a healthy Perk, KG, and both O'Neals, I wouldn't be surprised to see Danny try to get value for him at the deadline. 

[Chris]

And of course Roy and the other mods on this blog have never had much good to say about him

I am not sure where this comes from...I have been one of his biggest supporters ever since the Powe/Baby debates.  But the fact remains, he needs to learn to shut his mouth, because nothing good comes from complaining to the media.  He is a solid basketball player, and brings some good skills to the table, but that does not make him immune to criticism when he acts so immature.

[twinbree]

I don't see it so much as complaining as musing aloud. The problem is that he should have kept the thought process to himself and gotten to the main point. Which is he doesn't know what his role will be but he'll suck it up and do it when he does find out like he's done in the past. I don't want to him  traded. He's the only young big in our rotation, knows the system and is a great energy guy who raises his level in the playoffs.

[More Banners]

He could easily be a starter for another team

Which Team? (Note: format = PF, PF/C, C)
Atlanta-No (Josh Smith/Horford)
Charlotte-No (Diaw, Thomas/Nazr)
Chicago-No (Boozer, Gibson/Noah)
Clebeland-No (Jameson, Hickson/Verejao)
Dallas-No (Dirk/Hayward, Chandler)
Denver-No (Harrington, Kenyon/Nene, Andersen)
Detroit-Small Chance (Villanueva, Maxiell, Jerebko/Ben Wallace)
Goledn State-No (Lee, Wright/Biedrins)
Houston-No (Scola, Hill/Ming, Brad Miller, Hayes)
Indiana-Decent to Probable (Hansbrough, McRoberts/Hibbert, Foster)
Clippers-No (Griffin, Craig Smith/Kaman)
Lakers-No (Ugh)
Memphis-No (Randolph, 50/50 with arthur/Gasol)
Miami-Probably not (Bosh, Haslem/Anthony, Ilgauskas)
Milwaukee-No (Gooden, Ilyasova, Mbah Moute/Bogut)
Minnesota-Probably not (Love, Beasley/Darko)
New Jersey-No (Murphy, Favors/Lopez)
New Orleans-No (West/Okafor)
New York-No (Amare, Randolph/Turiaf)
OKC-No (Green/Krstic, Ibaka)
Orlando-No (Lewis, Anderson, Bass/Howard, Gortat)
Philly-No (Brand, Young/Speights
Phoenix-Miniscule chance (Frye, Warrick/Lopez
Portland-No (Aldridge/Camby, Oden, Przybilla)
Sacramento-No (Landry, Thompson/Dalembert, Cousins)
San Antonio-No (Duncan, Blair/McDyess, Splitter)
Toronto-Probably should (though Toronto has to justify the Amir contract, so realistically maybe not!) (Amir, Evans/Bargnani)
Utah-No (Milsap, Jefferson/Okur)
Washingon-No (Blatche/McGee)

So really, I see no teams that would actively trade anything of value to get him to be their starter, and even as a free pickup, barring injury, I can count on one hand the teams where there's a SMALL chance MIGHT start if given a totally fair shot at the job. That number shrinks if you consider playing style (remove New York and maybe Phoenix from that chance) and consider young teams developing more upside players (Washington, Minny). Indiana and Detroit he'd have a small chance; Toronto decent.

I agree.  If any team thought he was starting material, he wouldn't have had to crawl back to Boston after testing the free agent markets in '09.  His stock was never higher then and he still couldn't get better than 2 years 6 million dollars. 

While he's a nice player, he's a career backup.  And given that that's the case, his only real value to the team is in the short term (you don't waste salary space during rebuilding on "the backup power forward of the future").  And if we find ourselves with a healthy Perk, KG, and both O'Neals, I wouldn't be surprised to see Danny try to get value for him at the deadline. 

TP for extensive typing.

Yes, BBD is shaping up to be a career backup.  Not much of a chance he'll ever, ever get the payday he was hoping for after the 09 playoffs.  Most likely, he hopes for more, as he's shown that, at least in stretches, he can look pretty good against top competition, but I don't think he's fooled anybody.

[mmbaby]

Thanks Thirsty and I do know you are a supporter and can see what part he's played in helping this team. There are many bloggers here who feel the way I do and I think we all get tired of the same ole stuff from 3 years ago brought up ad nauseum. Baby seems to be the kind of person that people either love or hate.
I absolutely believe he will start for a team in the near future and whoever called it hyperboly..well, that is just their opinion.
Once again, the immaturity issue is harped upon here and not one person paid any mind to my pointing out how immature KG, Perk and others have acted and they are older than Baby and have more experience. And I allow for a bit of immaturity in a 24 year old, or he would not be a normal human being. Baby has a unique type of personality and that's his charm, but also gives certain types ammunition to find ways to put him down.
I swear it seems certain people here actively seek out ways to criticise him. Some of the criticisms are outright ridiculous.

And dear Roy, I expected less hyperboly from you of all people! To say outright that you feel Baby is disliked by the whole team is really just making stuff up. How on earth would you possibly know this? Come on and play fair. I know you don't like him, but don't spread falsehoods.

So there, I've had my say and am tired of this. I remember near the end of last season how appreciated and loved Baby was here and by his team (I believe) and fans and now certain people are back to the bashing and critisizing and the season hasn't even started. I guess some feel it's fun, but I personally feel like it's certain fans whining, not Baby.

BBD is merely being himself, yes, running his mouth, so what? His points were quite valid and I really do believe he's raising his flag. And it's time.

It is inexcusable how Doc responded and I am shocked that his comeback was so condescending and disrespectful. You just don't treat your good players (or any player) that way...bench or not. It's funny that Doc becomes jelly in the hands of the old players who are almost done and has continued to fill his team with new, injury-prone older players for the coming season. Yes, he wants one more title before he retires. Let's see how much he uses BBD this season. I'm willing to bet it's going to be a lot. Why? Because he needs his talent.

As I said, it's time for BBD to find a team where he can develop and not throw away his career here. Very good point, whoever made it, that he is playing alongside Hall of Famers. And yes, there are many on the team better than he is....right now. They have been doing this a long time, much longer than BBD. But the mere fact that he is the first one off the bench behind the legendary KG says a great deal about how good he is. Put that in your pipe and smoke it for awhile. He's going to be a starter somewhere and will continue to grow and get better and better with more time and responsibility.
   

[EJPLAYA]

"BBD is merely being himself, yes, running his mouth, so what? His points were quite valid and I really do believe he's raising his flag. And it's time."



Latrell Sprewell was just being himself too. I don't know why everyone got so upset at that. PJ was being unfair to him so his point was quite valid…

I sure would be more impressed if BBD raised the Celtics flag instead of his own. He might get a little more love from the fans. Whiny Baby...

[LooseCannon]

It is inexcusable how Doc responded and I am shocked that his comeback was so condescending and disrespectful. You just don't treat your good players (or any player) that way...bench or not. It's funny that Doc becomes jelly in the hands of the old players who are almost done and has continued to fill his team with new, injury-prone older players for the coming season. Yes, he wants one more title before he retires. Let's see how much he uses BBD this season. I'm willing to bet it's going to be a lot. Why? Because he needs his talent.   

I think it is quite excusable.  Perhaps Glen Davis is a player who requires being handled with a firmer hand than other players.  I also don't think it is quite as disrespectful has you make it out to be.  It's almost as if you personally identify with BBD and his flaws so much that you see any slight against him as a slight against yourself.

Big Baby is a player who is worth more than the minimum, but not a MLE-level salary.  He's not as useful as an aged Jermaine O'Neal.  He is more versatile than Shaq, but perhaps not as effective.  He's not so good that it is impossible to imagine Harangody passing him up on the depth chart.

[jasail]

I am a fan of Davis the player but the person, or the persona for that matter I find incredibly, well, dumb.

His role has been the same since he came in and I think that was what Doc was getting it.  It has always been to come in provide energy, defense and rebounding, doesn't make a difference whether he is at the 4 or the 5.  His role is not to be a post player or a more perimeter player, that just defines where on the court he is filling his role. 

If I can see that as an avid fan, but he can't see that as a player I have to agree with Doc.  Play with energy, hustle, rebound, make rotations on defense, take charges and get playing time - the formula is simple.   

[Fafnir]

When I hear the constant repeat of past mistakes, the endless airing of complaints that have long ago been disproven, the constant nitpicking and yes, whining, here from the same old people and almost every mod, the credibility factor goes way down in my book.

When you're unable to actually bring up any points that have been "disproven" or actually name the "mods" in question your credibility also goes way down.

There is no mod monolithic opinion against BBD, I like him and tried to get his autograph before the season at a charity event!

What he said was immature that's the long and short of it.

[Roy H.]

When I hear the constant repeat of past mistakes, the endless airing of complaints that have long ago been disproven, the constant nitpicking and yes, whining, here from the same old people and almost every mod, the credibility factor goes way down in my book.

When you're unable to actually bring up any points that have been "disproven" or actually name the "mods" in question your credibility also goes way down.

There is no mod monolithic opinion against BBD, I like him and tried to get his autograph before the season at a charity event!

What he said was immature that's the long and short of it.

I take it you haven't been receiving the "Anti-BBD Bonus" in your paycheck every week? 

[Roy H.]

And dear Roy, I expected less hyperboly from you of all people! To say outright that you feel Baby is disliked by the whole team is really just making stuff up. How on earth would you possibly know this? Come on and play fair. I know you don't like him, but don't spread falsehoods.

I didn't say that he was "disliked by the whole team".  I said the organization is getting sick of his antics.  That should be clear from the comments of Wyc, Danny, and Doc last year (who criticized him for breaking his hand in a fight and for getting into an altercation with a fan in Detroit), as well as from Doc's comments regarding this episode.