CB Draft '10 Playoffs Eastern Conference Semi-Finals

[Kwhit10]

Also, Rip has played Johnson Incredibly well in past matchups


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=johnsjo02&p2=hamilri01

With Rips team winning 14 out of 23

Personally I don't take much into "so and so's team won x out of y games"

I also throw out Rip's performance before last year.  He declined quite a bit last year in terms of his shooting percentages and hasn't been very efficient.

And the only game JJ and Rip played last year against each other was this
JJ: 29pts, 5ast, 4reb, 67%FG
Rip: 18pts, 3ast, 2reb, 46%FG


Last year Rip shot 40% on ~16 shots a game.  Is he getting that many touches on Milwaukee?

If they are open he will.  I think putting an arbitrary number on it is kinda pointless.  Last year he was one of the primary offensive options and was asked to do more than i am currently comfortable doing, which is why his numbers fell off.  I think in the right system he can still be effective.  I think pairing him with a pass first point guard and two other legitimate offensive options will resurrect his career.  Right now we still know two things about Rip, He can defend and he can hit the open jumper, and i dont really need to know much else.


And champ you may matchup up Vince on Rip on defense which is fine, because i would love to see Vince trying to keep up with Rip around screens, I dont think there is any way it could happen.  But im sticking Rip on Johnson.


EDIT: Also in last seasons matchup Rip went off on Vince for 36 points on 12-16 shooting with 5 rebounds and 3 assists

I don't think he's a good defender anymore.  He was a good defender in the mid 2000's where he had a defensive rating of 99,103, and 105.  Last year his defensive rating was 115 (115 points per 100 possessions).

[Rondo2287]

Also, Rip has played Johnson Incredibly well in past matchups


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=johnsjo02&p2=hamilri01

With Rips team winning 14 out of 23

Personally I don't take much into "so and so's team won x out of y games"

I also throw out Rip's performance before last year.  He declined quite a bit last year in terms of his shooting percentages and hasn't been very efficient.

And the only game JJ and Rip played last year against each other was this
JJ: 29pts, 5ast, 4reb, 67%FG
Rip: 18pts, 3ast, 2reb, 46%FG


Last year Rip shot 40% on ~16 shots a game.  Is he getting that many touches on Milwaukee?

If they are open he will.  I think putting an arbitrary number on it is kinda pointless.  Last year he was one of the primary offensive options and was asked to do more than i am currently comfortable doing, which is why his numbers fell off.  I think in the right system he can still be effective.  I think pairing him with a pass first point guard and two other legitimate offensive options will resurrect his career.  Right now we still know two things about Rip, He can defend and he can hit the open jumper, and i dont really need to know much else.


And champ you may matchup up Vince on Rip on defense which is fine, because i would love to see Vince trying to keep up with Rip around screens, I dont think there is any way it could happen.  But im sticking Rip on Johnson.


EDIT: Also in last seasons matchup Rip went off on Vince for 36 points on 12-16 shooting with 5 rebounds and 3 assists

I don't think he's a good defender anymore.  He was a good defender in the mid 2000's where he had a defensive rating of 99,103, and 105.  Last year his defensive rating was 115 (115 points per 100 possessions).

Do we really think that Rip has changed or do we think replacing Billups with Stucky and replacing Ben Wallace with his Corpse as well as Rasheed with only god knows who their PF is

[Fafnir]

You know Faf, wd you bring up some okay counter points but I believe I've already explained myself regarding your concerns and don't want to get into the minutiae of the situation. Not that you're really concerned anyway because, let's be honest, both of you had your mind made up regarding this matchup already.

So if others have questions regarding the matchup I will address them.

No you didn't.


Instead of addressing what I said, you tried to steer it to a different topic.  

I think this is probably more spot on with what you were doing Nick (rather than attacking me and Wideload), I just get upset set when someone I'm debating with "dismisses" me and my argument cavalierly.

[misha]

I like Dirk quite a bit (and honestly, your team has many more likeable players than my collection of ****bags and whiners), but he's the only full time starter in your front court, and questions surround your center rotation (mine too, honestly, but my depth gives me the edge here).  I doubt we'll see eye to eye on this, but good looks.

I think that you don't use Pekovic enough in your arguments.

He was one of the two best bigs in euroleague last year (along with Splitter). He's very strong, good post up player, shoots mid range pretty well, good rebounder, a decent defender. I have no doubr that he'll average at least about 10-12 points in his rookie season.

[wdleehi]

I like Dirk quite a bit (and honestly, your team has many more likeable players than my collection of ****bags and whiners), but he's the only full time starter in your front court, and questions surround your center rotation (mine too, honestly, but my depth gives me the edge here).  I doubt we'll see eye to eye on this, but good looks.

I think that you don't use Pekovic enough in your arguments.

He was one of the two best bigs in euroleague last year (along with Splitter). He's very strong, good post up player, shoots mid range pretty well, good rebounder, a decent defender. I have no doubr that he'll average at least about 10-12 points in his rookie season.

Because he will not move the needle in this argument.  He has no NBA proof. 

[indeedproceed]

1.) No one said Noah would foul out, just be in foul trouble

1) Noah barely averages more fouls per minute than Bynum did. Why is Byunum different? In the times when Noah played 35+ minutes on Bynum, he averaged 3.5 fouls between the 2 games.

2.) http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=scolalu01&p2=ilyaser01

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=bynuman01&p2=noahjo01

Expectations are great but facts say that in their head to heads Ilyasova and Noah average a combined 9.8 PPG versus their counterparts in Washington

2) Ohhh, I get it now. My mistake. Lets post some of those 'games' you're using.

-From Noah's rookie season: 11-18-2007 @ LAL, Noah played less than 6 minutes, attempted 1 FG and got 3 rebounds

-From the beginning of 08-09, before Noah had really asserted himself as the leader in Chicago: 11-19-2008 @ CHI, Noah played 11:30, Noah attempted 3 FG's and got 5 rebounds.

Here is what happened last season:

Noah V Bynum:

They met twice last season, and both times, Noah stayed in the game for longer, and out-rebounded and out-defended Bynum. Bynum limited Noah’s FG%, but beyond that Noah fouled less and blocked more shots. Bynum came out looking the better scorer by the minute, but Noah came out the better player. I’d attribute that to 2 seasons spent as the emotional leader for the NCAA champion Florida Gators, as opposed to coming out of high school without any leadership experience.

The comparisons he's using for Ilyasova are likewise. He's using a 2 game sample size, in which Ilyasova got less than 6 minutes in one game, and 20 minutes in another, compared to Scola's 39 minutes in one, and 23 minutes in another, respectively.

Also, they were not even guarding one another in either contest. Those stats (the Ilyasova/Scola ones) are competletly invalid. I'm shocked you even posted them.

3.)http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5392160

Magliore resigned with the Heat. Where's Amundson playing?

Do you really think whether Amundson has a NBA contract right now is a legitimate criticism? Especially when comparing him to a guy who only played an average of 10 minutes per contest over 36 games, and had more DNP's than minutes because he just wasn't good enough? I guess its all you got.

4.) Yes I am serious. Just because Spoelstra is a moron doesn't mean that the Boxer coach is.

Find me one thing that says Rudy T can coach again, and I will start buying that your coach matters at all. Just one thing, one iota of evidence that a man who retired twice (once in 2004 after just 41 games, and before that in 2002-2003 for bladder cancer) even thinks he can or wants to coach again. Show me anything anywhere that says he'd even think about coaching again.

ANd show me one piece of proof that your defense is good enough to hold LeBron, when the 2007 Pistons couldn't.

[Rondo2287]

I like Dirk quite a bit (and honestly, your team has many more likeable players than my collection of ****bags and whiners), but he's the only full time starter in your front court, and questions surround your center rotation (mine too, honestly, but my depth gives me the edge here).  I doubt we'll see eye to eye on this, but good looks.

I think that you don't use Pekovic enough in your arguments.

He was one of the two best bigs in euroleague last year (along with Splitter). He's very strong, good post up player, shoots mid range pretty well, good rebounder, a decent defender. I have no doubr that he'll average at least about 10-12 points in his rookie season.

Because he will not move the needle in this argument.  He has no NBA proof. 

Especially against a veteran ballclub like the Bucks

[Fafnir]

Amundson signed with the GSW's for a two year deal. (second is player option)

[indeedproceed]

Also, I'm sorry everyone but the reason my posts don't have my ususal 'joie de vivre' is because my work is absolutely insane. I am so happy I prepared my case Monday night, because I'd be up a paddle without a creek otherwise.

Amundson signed with the GSW's for a two year deal. (second is player option)

I've known that for a while...I wanted to see what other crazy things Nick was going to say about Amundson v Magloire.

[misha]

I like Dirk quite a bit (and honestly, your team has many more likeable players than my collection of ****bags and whiners), but he's the only full time starter in your front court, and questions surround your center rotation (mine too, honestly, but my depth gives me the edge here).  I doubt we'll see eye to eye on this, but good looks.

I think that you don't use Pekovic enough in your arguments.

He was one of the two best bigs in euroleague last year (along with Splitter). He's very strong, good post up player, shoots mid range pretty well, good rebounder, a decent defender. I have no doubr that he'll average at least about 10-12 points in his rookie season.

Because he will not move the needle in this argument.  He has no NBA proof. 

No rookie has that, but you can argue about potential - same as other rookies in this draft.

[wdleehi]

I like Dirk quite a bit (and honestly, your team has many more likeable players than my collection of ****bags and whiners), but he's the only full time starter in your front court, and questions surround your center rotation (mine too, honestly, but my depth gives me the edge here).  I doubt we'll see eye to eye on this, but good looks.

I think that you don't use Pekovic enough in your arguments.

He was one of the two best bigs in euroleague last year (along with Splitter). He's very strong, good post up player, shoots mid range pretty well, good rebounder, a decent defender. I have no doubr that he'll average at least about 10-12 points in his rookie season.

Because he will not move the needle in this argument.  He has no NBA proof. 

No rookie has that, but you can argue about potential - same as other rookies in this draft.

I agree, but at this point, it doesn't help enough to spend a lot of time on it. 

[Who]

Coaches

Chicago - Alvin Gentry
Washington - Rudy Tomjanovic

Orlando - Kevin Stallings
Milwaukee - Tom Thibodeau

[indeedproceed]

I like Dirk quite a bit (and honestly, your team has many more likeable players than my collection of ****bags and whiners), but he's the only full time starter in your front court, and questions surround your center rotation (mine too, honestly, but my depth gives me the edge here).  I doubt we'll see eye to eye on this, but good looks.

I think that you don't use Pekovic enough in your arguments.

He was one of the two best bigs in euroleague last year (along with Splitter). He's very strong, good post up player, shoots mid range pretty well, good rebounder, a decent defender. I have no doubr that he'll average at least about 10-12 points in his rookie season.

Because he will not move the needle in this argument.  He has no NBA proof.  

No rookie has that, but you can argue about potential - same as other rookies in this draft.

I agree, but at this point, it doesn't help enough to spend a lot of time on it.  

Yeah, Pekovic is a good prospect but I don't think he's the guy you want to harp on at this point.

[wdleehi]

Coaches

Chicago - Alvin Gentry
Washington - Rudy Tomjanovic

Orlando - Kevin Stallings
Milwaukee - Tom Thibodeau

Advantage Chicago  (I don't believe Rudy could or would want to coach a whole season)

Advantage Milwaukee  (I think NBA coach experience means more then college coaching experience)

[Who]

I like Dirk quite a bit (and honestly, your team has many more likeable players than my collection of ****bags and whiners), but he's the only full time starter in your front court, and questions surround your center rotation (mine too, honestly, but my depth gives me the edge here).  I doubt we'll see eye to eye on this, but good looks.

I think that you don't use Pekovic enough in your arguments.

He was one of the two best bigs in euroleague last year (along with Splitter). He's very strong, good post up player, shoots mid range pretty well, good rebounder, a decent defender. I have no doubr that he'll average at least about 10-12 points in his rookie season.

Would you play Pekovic ahead of Biedrins or Aldrich?

Against Milwaukee's center combo of Gortat and Turiaf?