CB Draft '10 Playoffs Eastern Conference Semi-Finals

[indeedproceed]

Coaches

Chicago - Alvin Gentry
Washington - Rudy Tomjanovic

Orlando - Kevin Stallings
Milwaukee - Tom Thibodeau

Advantage Chicago  (I don't believe Rudy could or would want to coach a whole season)

Advantage Milwaukee  (I think NBA coach experience means more then college coaching experience)

I'd echo both those points/choices, but I'm not rating either matchup based on coaching.

[The Walker Wiggle]

I like Dirk quite a bit (and honestly, your team has many more likeable players than my collection of ****bags and whiners), but he's the only full time starter in your front court, and questions surround your center rotation (mine too, honestly, but my depth gives me the edge here).  I doubt we'll see eye to eye on this, but good looks.

I think that you don't use Pekovic enough in your arguments.

He was one of the two best bigs in euroleague last year (along with Splitter). He's very strong, good post up player, shoots mid range pretty well, good rebounder, a decent defender. I have no doubr that he'll average at least about 10-12 points in his rookie season.

Would you play Pekovic ahead of Biedrins or Aldrich?

Against Milwaukee's center combo of Gortat and Turiaf?

Pekovic is very likely the best scorer of the five, at least in the half court, around the basket.

[nickagneta]

You know Faf, wd you bring up some okay counter points but I believe I've already explained myself regarding your concerns and don't want to get into the minutiae of the situation. Not that you're really concerned anyway because, let's be honest, both of you had your mind made up regarding this matchup already.

So if others have questions regarding the matchup I will address them.

Nick don't attack the poster, attack the argument.

I didn't attack the poster. I only mentioned that you two, I feel, have already made up your minds so there's no sense in going further.

I complimented both of you on okay counter points that I had already answered, so I dismissed the argument. There's no need to attack an argument that was already addressed.

You're stating our opinions for us, always a fun thing that you love to do Nick, and then dismissing us. That's the way to engender a great debate, on a cable news 2 minute segement...

I honestly haven't decided how I am to vote. I'm leaning 80% (you are correct in that its the Bulls/Boxers) on one match up and the other 3 I really don't know yet. It depends on how GMs state their cases, the arguments brought up, and what line ups are used.

(For example I was 100% Phoenix in the first round until he started talking Turk at the 4 and then the weird musical chairs lineup talk it didn't change my vote in the end but it really made me think about it)

You both had Chicago as your #1 seed and wd had me 9th and you had me 6th. I don't feel there's any question which way you are going so I don't feel a need to address your concerns.

wd is already going hard with the Lebron questions. Well, Lebron is great and all I can do is hope to slow him down and force him to stay outside. I mentioned that already. What more can I say. But if he wants an answer to his questions fine.

1.) My offense is not predicated on one player. IF Lebron covers my best player I can do screens and cause him to switch, opening up my player or just go elsewhere. It really is a simple solution. Unlike the Bulls the Boxers offense does not revolve 40-50% around one player

2.) What's there to say about stopping Lebron. I have already admitted I can't do it only hope to limit him and shut down others. I just don't know how to respond to his opinion of my team defense. I believe it very good to excellent. He doesn't. Nuff said.

3.) For all wd's opinions regarding it taking a great team to shut down Cleveland and that they had no one inside to score except Ilgauskas, that's patently false

2010 - Shaq, Jamison, Ilgauskas, Varejao, Hickson - formidable group inside
2009 - Ilgauskas, Varejao, Joe Smith, Hickson, Wallace - Ilgauskas
2008 - Ilgauskas, Drew Gooden, Joe Smith, Anderson Varejao

These grouping are world's better than the ragtag group of bigs the Bulls have around Lebron and yet, the Cavs still lost.

Faf, you voted against the Boxers versus New York, as did wd, and Chicago is a better team, so why am I going to address either of your questions. There is no tactical advantage to doing so. I now believe I have answered you questions and will leave it there.

[Who]

I like Dirk quite a bit (and honestly, your team has many more likeable players than my collection of ****bags and whiners), but he's the only full time starter in your front court, and questions surround your center rotation (mine too, honestly, but my depth gives me the edge here).  I doubt we'll see eye to eye on this, but good looks.

I think that you don't use Pekovic enough in your arguments.

He was one of the two best bigs in euroleague last year (along with Splitter). He's very strong, good post up player, shoots mid range pretty well, good rebounder, a decent defender. I have no doubr that he'll average at least about 10-12 points in his rookie season.

Would you play Pekovic ahead of Biedrins or Aldrich?

Against Milwaukee's center combo of Gortat and Turiaf?

If it were my team ...

I'd bench Andris Biedrins. I think Gortat will outplay him by a large margin by virtue of his defensive contributions. I would start Aldrich instead and hope that he can stay competitive with Gortat.

I think a Biedrins vs Turiaf matchup is fairly even. Biedrins outpacing Turiaf on the backboards by a large margin but Turiaf supplying much better defense. Turiaf is the more skilled offensive player but he uses those skills poorly and I like Biedrins' efficiency as a garbage man.

I think Pekovic would be a very difficult matchup for Turiaf defensively. Pekovic should be able to score on Turiaf. That would be an interesting matchup to throw at Milwaukee.

---------------------------------------------------

In the current state of affairs ...

I have Gortat with the matchup advantage vs Biedrins (not a fan of his defense)

And, Aldrich with the matchup advantage vs Turiaf as backup center.

[indeedproceed]

2010 - Shaq, Jamison, Ilgauskas, Varejao, Hickson - formidable group inside
2009 - Ilgauskas, Varejao, Joe Smith, Hickson, Wallace - Ilgauskas
2008 - Ilgauskas, Drew Gooden, Joe Smith, Anderson Varejao

These grouping are world's better than the ragtag group of bigs the Bulls have around Lebron and yet, the Cavs still lost.

I may not have the traditional post scorer O'Neal is, but Noah is a better offensive player than Varejao, a better defender than anyone Cleveland has ever had in their FC, and a better rebounder than anyone CLE has ever had in thier FC.

Ilyasova is one of those guys either you buy or you don't. I think he'll be able to put up 14 and 10 on Scola. He's of similar size, he's got a full year of NBA ball under his belt, and he should improve his efficiency and foul rate. Those are all things that young players improve on the most.

But, until he actually does it, Nick is just going to shout "No he cant! He hasn't yet!" to anyone that will listen.

[misha]

I like Dirk quite a bit (and honestly, your team has many more likeable players than my collection of ****bags and whiners), but he's the only full time starter in your front court, and questions surround your center rotation (mine too, honestly, but my depth gives me the edge here).  I doubt we'll see eye to eye on this, but good looks.

I think that you don't use Pekovic enough in your arguments.

He was one of the two best bigs in euroleague last year (along with Splitter). He's very strong, good post up player, shoots mid range pretty well, good rebounder, a decent defender. I have no doubr that he'll average at least about 10-12 points in his rookie season.

Would you play Pekovic ahead of Biedrins or Aldrich?

Against Milwaukee's center combo of Gortat and Turiaf?

In the second unit. I think that Pekovic has a good matchup with Turiaf and will add more variety to the Magic's second squad.

[nickagneta]

But, until he actually does it, Nick is just going to shout "No he cant! He hasn't yet!" to anyone that will listen.

Pretty much the same strategy you would use if you were in my shoes, don't you think. 

[wdleehi]

You know Faf, wd you bring up some okay counter points but I believe I've already explained myself regarding your concerns and don't want to get into the minutiae of the situation. Not that you're really concerned anyway because, let's be honest, both of you had your mind made up regarding this matchup already.

So if others have questions regarding the matchup I will address them.

Nick don't attack the poster, attack the argument.

I didn't attack the poster. I only mentioned that you two, I feel, have already made up your minds so there's no sense in going further.

I complimented both of you on okay counter points that I had already answered, so I dismissed the argument. There's no need to attack an argument that was already addressed.

You're stating our opinions for us, always a fun thing that you love to do Nick, and then dismissing us. That's the way to engender a great debate, on a cable news 2 minute segement...

I honestly haven't decided how I am to vote. I'm leaning 80% (you are correct in that its the Bulls/Boxers) on one match up and the other 3 I really don't know yet. It depends on how GMs state their cases, the arguments brought up, and what line ups are used.

(For example I was 100% Phoenix in the first round until he started talking Turk at the 4 and then the weird musical chairs lineup talk it didn't change my vote in the end but it really made me think about it)

You both had Chicago as your #1 seed and wd had me 9th and you had me 6th. I don't feel there's any question which way you are going so I don't feel a need to address your concerns.

wd is already going hard with the Lebron questions. Well, Lebron is great and all I can do is hope to slow him down and force him to stay outside. I mentioned that already. What more can I say. But if he wants an answer to his questions fine.

1.) My offense is not predicated on one player. IF Lebron covers my best player I can do screens and cause him to switch, opening up my player or just go elsewhere. It really is a simple solution. Unlike the Bulls the Boxers offense does not revolve 40-50% around one player

2.) What's there to say about stopping Lebron. I have already admitted I can't do it only hope to limit him and shut down others. I just don't know how to respond to his opinion of my team defense. I believe it very good to excellent. He doesn't. Nuff said.

3.) For all wd's opinions regarding it taking a great team to shut down Cleveland and that they had no one inside to score except Ilgauskas, that's patently false

2010 - Shaq, Jamison, Ilgauskas, Varejao, Hickson - formidable group inside
2009 - Ilgauskas, Varejao, Joe Smith, Hickson, Wallace - Ilgauskas
2008 - Ilgauskas, Drew Gooden, Joe Smith, Anderson Varejao

These grouping are world's better than the ragtag group of bigs the Bulls have around Lebron and yet, the Cavs still lost.

Faf, you voted against the Boxers versus New York, as did wd, and Chicago is a better team, so why am I going to address either of your questions. There is no tactical advantage to doing so. I now believe I have answered you questions and will leave it there.

Outside of Shaq, who is the low post threat?

And who was the low post threat when they beat the 2007 Pistons to go to the Finals?


And who are you going to screen with?  And are they good enough to pull of a switch?  And do you have PG that can get the ball in the sweet spot at the right moment?




And you reason for not wanting to answer out questions is weak.

I read it as you are afraid of what you answers to our questions will lead those who have not made up their mind will think.  


This is the chance for anyone to ask questions.


This is not the time for only those who like your team to answer the questions.  

[Fafnir]

You know Faf, wd you bring up some okay counter points but I believe I've already explained myself regarding your concerns and don't want to get into the minutiae of the situation. Not that you're really concerned anyway because, let's be honest, both of you had your mind made up regarding this matchup already.

So if others have questions regarding the matchup I will address them.

Nick don't attack the poster, attack the argument.

I didn't attack the poster. I only mentioned that you two, I feel, have already made up your minds so there's no sense in going further.

I complimented both of you on okay counter points that I had already answered, so I dismissed the argument. There's no need to attack an argument that was already addressed.

You're stating our opinions for us, always a fun thing that you love to do Nick, and then dismissing us. That's the way to engender a great debate, on a cable news 2 minute segement...

I honestly haven't decided how I am to vote. I'm leaning 80% (you are correct in that its the Bulls/Boxers) on one match up and the other 3 I really don't know yet. It depends on how GMs state their cases, the arguments brought up, and what line ups are used.

(For example I was 100% Phoenix in the first round until he started talking Turk at the 4 and then the weird musical chairs lineup talk it didn't change my vote in the end but it really made me think about it)

You both had Chicago as your #1 seed and wd had me 9th and you had me 6th. I don't feel there's any question which way you are going so I don't feel a need to address your concerns.

wd is already going hard with the Lebron questions. Well, Lebron is great and all I can do is hope to slow him down and force him to stay outside. I mentioned that already. What more can I say. But if he wants an answer to his questions fine.

1.) My offense is not predicated on one player. IF Lebron covers my best player I can do screens and cause him to switch, opening up my player or just go elsewhere. It really is a simple solution. Unlike the Bulls the Boxers offense does not revolve 40-50% around one player

2.) What's there to say about stopping Lebron. I have already admitted I can't do it only hope to limit him and shut down others. I just don't know how to respond to his opinion of my team defense. I believe it very good to excellent. He doesn't. Nuff said.

3.) For all wd's opinions regarding it taking a great team to shut down Cleveland and that they had no one inside to score except Ilgauskas, that's patently false

2010 - Shaq, Jamison, Ilgauskas, Varejao, Hickson - formidable group inside
2009 - Ilgauskas, Varejao, Joe Smith, Hickson, Wallace - Ilgauskas
2008 - Ilgauskas, Drew Gooden, Joe Smith, Anderson Varejao

These grouping are world's better than the ragtag group of bigs the Bulls have around Lebron and yet, the Cavs still lost.

Faf, you voted against the Boxers versus New York, as did wd, and Chicago is a better team, so why am I going to address either of your questions. There is no tactical advantage to doing so. I now believe I have answered you questions and will leave it there.

So instead of answering tough questions you say I've always been against you and you are going to ignore my questions?

I don't think that will build confidence of other voters, I guess you think it will. I'm still curious how you're specifically defending LeBron. Packing the paint, but not helping is honestly in my mind an oxymoron.

[indeedproceed]

But, until he actually does it, Nick is just going to shout "No he cant! He hasn't yet!" to anyone that will listen.

Pretty much the same strategy you would use if you were in my shoes, don't you think. 

As long as I believed it. If you think Ilyasova isn't capable of being a starting PF, then that's that. I do, his actual fans who watch his games do. Pretty much the only person who doesn't is Scott Skiles.

EDIT: Not to say Scott Skiles doesn't know what he's doing. Scott is a nice guy, and he likes his roles clearly defined, maybe he thought LRMAM brought something to the table Ilyasova didn't. Maybe he likes Ilyasova's scoring more to bolster the second unit, since Ilyasova often played a lot of his minutes next to Kurt Thomas instead of Bogut.

[indeedproceed]

So can I get a quick status check to see where people are leaning, how they're viewing our teams?

Rondo? Action? Champkind? I see ya lurking. Which way are you voting, Chicago or Washington, and why? I'll throw you some TP's even if you go with the Washington Ballerinas.

[nickagneta]

Just wanted to share a picture with everyone of all the rings that Lebron has won :

[Who]

So can I get a quick status check to see where people are leaning, how they're viewing our teams?

Rondo? Action? Champkind? I see ya lurking. Which way are you voting, Chicago or Washington, and why? I'll throw you some TP's even if you go with the Washington Ballerinas.

Yesterday, when I was looking at the matchups, I was leaning towards Washington over Chicago + Milwaukee over Orlando ... but I wanted to give it some more thought today.

I haven't had much free time today ... still reading through the two threads.

[Roy H.]

So can I get a quick status check to see where people are leaning, how they're viewing our teams?

nick has made some serious inroads, I think.  I'm officially on the fence.  I think depth is just a huge concern for you.  At the same time, Lebron is a huge concern for everyone.

Maybe the deciding factor will be Lebron's "crushing failure as a leader".

[indeedproceed]

I'm glad you brought that up, Roy.

One thing about Washington that I thought should be a negative point in their column: Nobody on their team has ever led an NBA Franchise. Luis Scola is not the leader in Houston, Andrew Bynum is not the leader in LA, Manu Ginobli is not the leader in San Antonio.

In fact, for all the finals experience these guys have, and both Bynum and Manu have had their games in the playoffs, neither one knows what it is like to lead a team.

Meanwhile, LeBron James was the leader in Cleveland through one finals run, and one conference finals run. You might not think he was a great leader, but he did produce results.

Joakim Noah is the emotional leader in Chicago and was a leader at FLordia to 2 NCAA championships.

Brandon Jennings showed his own leadership capabilities this season in Milwaukee, both in his role as the starting point guard during the season and the increased production during the playoffs when Bogut went down.

Washington doesn't have their leader. They've got 3 second fiddles and a smattering of role players.