Delonte's Brain

[thirstyboots18]

Thanks, GreenFaith, my daughter is doing great right now...in fact she works for the same group as her doctors and therapists.  This was not always the case and we went through a few scary years, awful years...of feeling utterly helpless. But there is help.  Finding it is the frustratingly hard part.  As long as there is life there is hope, so never give up on your loved ones, or yourself!

[Neurotic Guy]

Also, the meds seldom work alone.  You must do the therapy in conjunction with the meds.  My daughter was told that she was probably born with her conditon...that it was probably not caused by any life experience.  My father and my husband's mother both suffered, in different degrees, from depression and it is thought to run in families.  My sisters also have it.  As has been mentioned, at this point there is no cure, but it can be controlled.

What an incredible journey it must be for a person and their family members toward understanding, accepting and then effectively treating an emotional disorder.   Thanks for your perspective, and others' who point out the importance of early attention and intervention, and the critical component that family history plays.  Even if, as in Nick's case, a family member does not have the disorder, awareness and education seem still critical -- in terms of the genetic potential for progeny and in terms of knowing how to effectively support a family member.

I've got to believe that it takes a uniquely mature young man (e.g., Delonte's teammates) to provide the correct support for a peer with an emotional disorder, especially if that disorder has a manic component.  I'd imagine that many peers inadvertently reinforce behaviors that might be enormously detrimental and self-defeating for those with the disorder.  Again, it speaks to the importance of a very mature support system amongst family, friends, teammates...

Thanks to Bahku for a physician's perspective.  Again, expressing the comprehensive nature of effective treatment, and emphasizing the importance of treatment follow through. I imagine the relationship between doctor and patient is critical -- trust and on-going communication must be present; both, I'd imagine can be adversely impacted by logistics (time, money, insurance, proximity).   

In reading all of the great posts here, it continues to reinforce the notion that Delonte (if diagnosis is accurate) really needs a system in place that will best allow him to sustain treatment -- and to be there early and supportively if/when he stops treatment or if/when his treatment is ineffective.

[Edgar]

My wife says i am bipolar from time to time

I like to see it like Red hot chilly peppers do

My love its like a Roller coaster baby baby..you want to ride

 

[thirstyboots18]

I also happen to believe that, while it is never easy, it is much easier for people to understand  and not pass quick judgement, if it is out in the open.  It is my opinion (and it is just an opinion) that whatever triggers the "coping" mechanism, is missing in a lot of these people, like my daughter.  The meds even out the moods and the therapy (dbt is the one I am more familiar with) teaches methods on "how" to cope when difficult situations come up.

There will always be emotional bullies who will make self righteous or hurtful comments and pass judgement,  but I think they have emotional problems of their own. I know it took us a long time to come to grips with even the realization of the illness...the same old "try harder, control yourself, everyone goes through it" comments...and everyone does go through the doubts, but most people have learned to "cope" and not internalize and personalize so much.  (Self esteem is such a fragile thing, try helping people build it instead of tearing it down.)

At least that is my simplistic interpretation of the process.   

[Neurotic Guy]

I also happen to believe that, while it is never easy, it is much easier for people to understand  and not pass quick judgement, if it is out in the open.  It is my opinion (and it is just an opinion) that whatever triggers the "coping" mechanism, is missing in a lot of these people, like my daughter.  The meds even out the moods and the therapy (dbt is the one I am more familiar with) teaches methods on "how" to cope when difficult situations come up.

There will always be emotional bullies who will make self righteous or hurtful comments and pass judgement,  but I think they have emotional problems of their own. I know it took us a long time to come to grips with even the realization of the illness...the same old "try harder, control yourself, everyone goes through it" comments...and everyone does go through the doubts, but most people have learned to "cope" and not internalize and personalize so much.  (Self esteem is such a fragile thing, try helping people build it instead of tearing it down.)

At least that is my simplistic interpretation of the process.   

Thanks Thirstyboots -- enlightening and poignant.  I really appreciate the insights you share -- gained from your years of persevering through difficulties.

It strikes me that although some people do respond with revived effort to 'no nonsense' messages, the reality for some is that these messages can represent further proof (reinforcement of irrational self-defeating beliefs) of failure and inadequacy.  For people who are ill-equipped to cope, these messages can be more damaging than some people might think.  That's one thought I am taking from your comments that I hope I am portraying accurately.   

[nickagneta]

I also happen to believe that, while it is never easy, it is much easier for people to understand  and not pass quick judgement, if it is out in the open.  It is my opinion (and it is just an opinion) that whatever triggers the "coping" mechanism, is missing in a lot of these people, like my daughter.  The meds even out the moods and the therapy (dbt is the one I am more familiar with) teaches methods on "how" to cope when difficult situations come up.

There will always be emotional bullies who will make self righteous or hurtful comments and pass judgement,  but I think they have emotional problems of their own. I know it took us a long time to come to grips with even the realization of the illness...the same old "try harder, control yourself, everyone goes through it" comments...and everyone does go through the doubts, but most people have learned to "cope" and not internalize and personalize so much.  (Self esteem is such a fragile thing, try helping people build it instead of tearing it down.)

At least that is my simplistic interpretation of the process.   

Thanks Thirstyboots -- enlightening and poignant.  I really appreciate the insights you share -- gained from your years of persevering through difficulties.

It strikes me that although some people do respond with revived effort to 'no nonsense' messages, the reality for some is that these messages can represent further proof (reinforcement of irrational self-defeating beliefs) of failure and inadequacy.  For people who are ill-equipped to cope, these messages can be more damaging than some people might think.  That's one thought I am taking from your comments that I hope I am portraying accurately.   

I consider myself a pretty intelligent and confident guy. When in my depressive episodes disparaging and unsupportive comments can cause days of depression and setbacks as your mind tends to dwell on them and shatter any progress you might be making or heading towards.

From loved ones, they can hurt terribly.

Another small fact about Bi Polar Disorder is that the problem is really in the neurological system of you body. Depression can literally cause pain, real pain, when it gets bad. A lot of people don't know this but it's true. When I was at my worst and considering suicide years and years ago, my body ached everywhere and I had tremendous pain in my sides where there was nothing there to be hurt.

[Neurotic Guy]

I also happen to believe that, while it is never easy, it is much easier for people to understand  and not pass quick judgement, if it is out in the open.  It is my opinion (and it is just an opinion) that whatever triggers the "coping" mechanism, is missing in a lot of these people, like my daughter.  The meds even out the moods and the therapy (dbt is the one I am more familiar with) teaches methods on "how" to cope when difficult situations come up.

There will always be emotional bullies who will make self righteous or hurtful comments and pass judgement,  but I think they have emotional problems of their own. I know it took us a long time to come to grips with even the realization of the illness...the same old "try harder, control yourself, everyone goes through it" comments...and everyone does go through the doubts, but most people have learned to "cope" and not internalize and personalize so much.  (Self esteem is such a fragile thing, try helping people build it instead of tearing it down.)

At least that is my simplistic interpretation of the process.   

Thanks Thirstyboots -- enlightening and poignant.  I really appreciate the insights you share -- gained from your years of persevering through difficulties.

It strikes me that although some people do respond with revived effort to 'no nonsense' messages, the reality for some is that these messages can represent further proof (reinforcement of irrational self-defeating beliefs) of failure and inadequacy.  For people who are ill-equipped to cope, these messages can be more damaging than some people might think.  That's one thought I am taking from your comments that I hope I am portraying accurately.   

I consider myself a pretty intelligent and confident guy. When in my depressive episodes disparaging and unsupportive comments can cause days of depression and setbacks as your mind tends to dwell on them and shatter any progress you might be making or heading towards.

From loved ones, they can hurt terribly.

Another small fact about Bi Polar Disorder is that the problem is really in the neurological system of you body. Depression can literally cause pain, real pain, when it gets bad. A lot of people don't know this but it's true. When I was at my worst and considering suicide years and years ago, my body ached everywhere and I had tremendous pain in my sides where there was nothing there to be hurt.

I am learning more each time you post.  I appreciate it!

[BballTim]

Also the medications work by being constantly in the bloodstream. Which means they have to be taken at the same dosage at the same times every day and you can't skip days. Sure if you miss a day here or there no biggie. But you can't be missing 2-3 days a week or doubling up on the dosage the next day or taking alcohol while taking them because then they don't work.

  A wrinkle on this is, if they get the flu or another stomach bug, the effectively go off their meds for a few days.

[Scalablob990]

I've had *severe* ADHD since I was diagnosed as a child and i'm still battling all the symptoms to this day...is it odd to say that I don't believe ADHD is real though?

[Celtics18]

Very interesting thread.

Nick mentioned that exercise is an important part of controlling a bipolar disorder.  It seems to me (although, I haven't researched it) that most of Delonte's problems have come in the off-season or early in the season before he really got going from a physical routine perspective.  

It seems likely to me from a complete layman's perspective that being a professional athlete in the midst of an extremely physically rigorous season would help to control either manic or depressive episodes from manifesting themselves.  I am also curious about the medication of someone in that position.  Would it be different than the medicine or dosage of someone who did not engage in that level of physical activity?

I haven't heard of any professional athletes other than Delonte publically admitting to having any kind of mental illness, but I suspect there are others.  For example, I've always suspected that Terell Owens and Ron Artest probably suffered from some kind of bi-polar disorder.

Thanks for the thread, Neurotic Guy, and thanks for the very honest and informative posts from NickAgneta and ThirstyBoots.

[thirstyboots18]

I have always been active, and was always trying to get my bookworm daughter to be more active.  I always said endorphins were my drug of choice.  My daughter was very lucky that she never got into drugs or alcohol.  Now in this DBT therapy program, she has been trying to get into more physical activities.  Who knew, when I was pushing it, that luckily it was the right thing to do.  I also suspect that there are an awful lot of undiagnosed cases out there.  Before this economic downturn forced so many out on the streets, I often wondered if some of the homeless (bag people) mightn't be afflicted with one of these syndromes.  People suffer for years trying to control their behavior to acceptable levels, until they can't do it any more...the bottom is hit, and then the rebuilding starts.  It is a family learning process for sure.  Ultimately, as hard as it is to accept it, it is the person with the problem who has to confront his/her demons...the rest of us can only cheer, cajole, pray, love and accept what is unfolding.  I don't know about anyone else, but in our family, some accepted easier than others and my daughter was wonderful with us, trying to explain things to us and helping us get over our denial and lack of knowledge!  She was, in effect, the grownup in the family.  We all were understanding from our own point of view, but weren't really getting it. I don't know if we do yet...

This is getting a little convoluted, so I think I have said most of the pertinent things, and I should stop here!  Thanks for listening to me...I don't often get a chance to shed this particular stress (and believe me, my daughter has had it 1000 times worse than I, I am just frustrated that I couldn't help speed her process.  I do wish Delonte all the best.  People who suffer from emotional diseases are just regular people, with talents and hardships like evryone else, and there is no reason they can't learn to cope, with meds and therapy, and lead full lives.  And that includes playing basketball at a high level.

[jimmywolfrey]

This is a good topic and presented nicely.  I am not sure about other posters, but I have been a fan of Delonte from day one.  I was on this board when he was on the Celtics previously, then went to the Sonics and Cavs boards (lol).  From what I can read into what has been reported by the Cavs media, Delonte relapsed from his medication last summer (2009).  He felt good.  He just got married, just came off of a great year playing 2guard on a 66 win team.  His play on the court while on the meds was well above average offensively and defensively in 08-09.  He felt so well that he felt like he was good (cured even) and didn't need them anymore. 

When you are feeling good and the side effects are what they are (lethargy and some very obvious sexual side effect), Delonte probably felt that he could get away with not taking the drugs to try to lessen the side effects.  Then once he still felt good despite not taking the drugs, he felt he could continue to not take them.  This happens to alot of people on medication actually.  But once the effects of the drugs wore off, he fell back into his feeling of random disorder (the basic idealogy of being bi-polar). 

To add to his problems, he is afraid of flying so when you have that combination going on, you are going to feel a little manic even if you are medicated.  Last off season, this played a huge role in his absenses from practices as he was still in the DC area even when training camp started.  It was alluded to that he missed flights coming back to Cleveland...multiple during training camp..these led to the excused and unexcused absenses.  I found from reports that he also had what was described in previous posts as getting help from a shrink in addition to the medication.  I believe he/she traveled with the Cavs or at least was available on short notice if Delonte had an episode.   I am not sure if he had this help during the 08-09 season in addition to his meds. 

I think what happened last late summer (2009) was just a spiraling affect that someone with bi-polar gets trapped in...the highs...then the lows...then even further lows..then letting his teammates and team down.  Even his journey to get back on track had to be humiliating since he didn't play as well as he did last year as he did in the 08-09 season. 

He now finds himself at square 1 again and now everyone knows he has the disorder.  Before he only had to prove himself on the basketball court, now he has to prove that he is mentally capable of being a professional player.  On the court, he seems to pass the test, off the court, it remains to be seen.  From all accounts that happened during his sentencing and up until his signing, he seems to be together now.  However, with the beast of being bi-polar, things can again spiral out of control without proper guidance within himself and others.   I know one thing that will help out tremendously in his post basketball life and that will be weed.

[Bankshot]

I've had *severe* ADHD since I was diagnosed as a child and i'm still battling all the symptoms to this day...is it odd to say that I don't believe ADHD is real though?

I don't know.  Why do you think it's not real?

[clover]

This is the most intelligent and informative thread I've read on CB and a good one to have with all the chatter about Delonte's return.  Sincere thanks and best wishes to everyone who's contributed.