Author Topic: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences  (Read 84962 times)

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Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #75 on: September 01, 2010, 03:33:55 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Please keep it civil, direct back and forth is fine when done respectfully.

My 2 cents on a bit of this, I wouldn't hang my hat on Fisher out scoring Gortat.

Gortat was an above average Center in the minutes he got (not many behind Dwight) Fisher was possibly the worst starting PG to get so many minutes in the NBA.

Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #76 on: September 01, 2010, 03:35:38 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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Please keep it civil, direct back and forth is fine when done respectfully.

My 2 cents on a bit of this, I wouldn't hang my hat on Fisher out scoring Gortat.

Gortat was an above average Center in the minutes he got (not many behind Dwight) Fisher was possibly the worst starting PG to get so many minutes in the NBA.

Sorry if i went out of the realm of Civil, I see this as a good spirited discussion going between myself and Action.  Hopefully no offense was taken by anything i said, if so im sorry action, TP
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Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #77 on: September 01, 2010, 03:38:06 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Nothing was out of line, yet. Just a precautionary warning for two already heated rivals.

As for Johnny Flynn, he was a chucker in college.

He took 15 shots per 36 minutes in the NBA. In college (without minutes) he took 12.5 shots per game. There are a lot fewer possessions and shots in college. So I think he's just a chucker.


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Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #78 on: September 01, 2010, 03:41:04 PM »

Offline action781

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Which Rip was a big Part of.  Listen Im not saying Rip is going to Shut down Kobe, its not going to happen.  But the fact is that I can spread the ball around and score from every position which Indiana can't do.  If Kobe has an off night there his team is going to struggle to put points on the board. 

Every position?  Center?  Point guard?

I have 2 excellent scoring options on my team in Kobe and Gasol.  I have 2 scoring options that average considerably more points per 36min than Jason Kidd (your #4 option).  And Fisher can very likely outscore Gortat (who has only scored double digits twice all last season and has never scored 20+ in his career).

I don't see why my team is so much less balanced offensively than yours?

Kidd shoots for high percentages 42% from the field and from three in fact. compared to 38% from the field for fisher and 34% from three

Gortat hasnt scored that much in his career and thats fine.  He is on a different team now and will be playing considerably more minutes as well as getting better looks by playing with a pass first pg in J-Kidd.  but your right i probably exaggerated, i cant really score from the center position.  Nor do i need to.

Also, My bench is far better scoring than at nearly every position.

And lets not even compare Kidd and Fisher.  Your starting pg averaged 2.5 assists last year.  What does that say about ball movement on your team?


My offense will be run primarily through Kobe (5.0 apg) and Gasol (2.4 apg).  The 2 of them along with Fisher gives me 3 strong passers.  I also believe that Jonny Flynn is a good passer (4.4 apg). 

I'd like to emphasize though that Derek Fisher's 2.5 apg and Kobe's 5.0 apg were the backcourt duo for the current two time NBA champions.  So, if you don't believe they can move the ball well enough, maybe it's not really that important?



And no problems here with my discussion with Rondo.  Very civil, respectful, competitive banter going on here in my eyes.  TP back.
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Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #79 on: September 01, 2010, 03:46:40 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Which Rip was a big Part of.  Listen Im not saying Rip is going to Shut down Kobe, its not going to happen.  But the fact is that I can spread the ball around and score from every position which Indiana can't do.  If Kobe has an off night there his team is going to struggle to put points on the board. 

Every position?  Center?  Point guard?

I have 2 excellent scoring options on my team in Kobe and Gasol.  I have 2 scoring options that average considerably more points per 36min than Jason Kidd (your #4 option).  And Fisher can very likely outscore Gortat (who has only scored double digits twice all last season and has never scored 20+ in his career).

I don't see why my team is so much less balanced offensively than yours?

Kidd shoots for high percentages 42% from the field and from three in fact. compared to 38% from the field for fisher and 34% from three

Gortat hasnt scored that much in his career and thats fine.  He is on a different team now and will be playing considerably more minutes as well as getting better looks by playing with a pass first pg in J-Kidd.  but your right i probably exaggerated, i cant really score from the center position.  Nor do i need to.

Also, My bench is far better scoring than at nearly every position.

And lets not even compare Kidd and Fisher.  Your starting pg averaged 2.5 assists last year.  What does that say about ball movement on your team?


My offense will be run primarily through Kobe (5.0 apg) and Gasol (2.4 apg).  The 2 of them along with Fisher gives me 3 strong passers.  I also believe that Jonny Flynn is a good passer (4.4 apg). 

I'd like to emphasize though that Derek Fisher's 2.5 apg and Kobe's 5.0 apg were the backcourt duo for the current two time NBA champions.  So, if you don't believe they can move the ball well enough, maybe it's not really that important?
Gasol and Kobe are both excellent passers at their respective positions.

Flynn and Fisher are not, their assist ratios are very sub par for a PG. Flynn is the worst of the four you mentioned. He played a ton of minutes at PG, had a usage of 25%, and he still only got 4.4 asssists! That's bad.

You're running the triangle correct?

Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #80 on: September 01, 2010, 03:49:18 PM »

Offline action781

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My 2 cents on a bit of this, I wouldn't hang my hat on Fisher out scoring Gortat.

Gortat was an above average Center in the minutes he got (not many behind Dwight) Fisher was possibly the worst starting PG to get so many minutes in the NBA.

Well, I just looked at Gortat's player log for last season.  I quickly counted approx. 21 total games in which he logged 20+ minutes (probably about what Milwaukee expects him to play).  He scored double digits in only 2 of those games.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3983/gamelog;_ylt=Av4rU8ZFL2793TS5Cae9_3A.PaB4

Look at Derek Fisher's, on the other hand, and you see double digit performances are NOT few and far between.  He had 12 in the playoffs alone.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3125/gamelog;_ylt=Av4rU8ZFL2793TS5Cae9_3AhPKB4


I really like Gortat, I even told Rondo to consider drafting him.  But I don't think he's a scorer and I see zero statistics more evident than what I've produced saying that he would outscore Fisher.
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Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #81 on: September 01, 2010, 03:50:57 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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My rotation is thin, and it is tenuous, but I would contend that it is serviceable, and its not going to hold me back from getting the first seed.
Sorry guy but I completely disagree. Not only are the Bulls not going to get the #1 seed in the East, they aren't even going to win the Central. There's just not enough surrounding Lebron to get that job done.

Jennings is a below average PG that had a nice six week run to start his career but showed little thereafter. Mike Miller might be the easiest second scoring option in the league to guard. Noah is great defensively and on the boards but is basically a garbageman when it comes to offense. Ilyasova, Allen and Maynor are very very poor offensive players.

There you have it. A team that defensively will regularly keep teams under 90 points and will struggle to score 80 because teams will take away everything but LeBron and LeBron will have to average 50 points a game so that his team can score 90.

Hm, I respectfully but completely disagree with you. My starters alone averaged roughly 80 points, and thats with their production last season, without LeBron's "bump" that he typically gives players.

I guess you're entitled to an opinion, this is America. I'd just contend that you're plainly wrong.

Jennings is far from a below average PG, both defensively and offensively, and on top of that he performed well enough to place 3rd in rookie of the year voting. He hit the rookie wall regarding his scoring, plain and simple. He also went from taking 19 FG's per game to 11,12, and 13 per game in February, March, and April, respectively. The guy just got exhausted by the grind of the NBA; its a problem for a lot rookies that only living through it, and learning the lesson about off-season conditioning can cure. He'll be a year older this season, and in that year he saw just how hard surviving an NBA season can be. I don't see anything in his past that would make one believe he can't bounce back better this season.

Mike Miller might seem like the easiest second option to guard ever to you, but I'd contend (and the numbers support me here) that the only thing limiting him from moving from scoring 10 points per game to scoring 15-7 ppg is his FG's attempted. His FG% has been pretty consistently good for a guard (not dropping below 46% since 2004), and the last time he attempted more than 10 FG's a game, he averaged 16.4 points. I think, and I'm not alone here, that the main thing holding Miller back is that he's played for sub-par teams the last few seasons, which has made him lose a bit of his fire. I, among others, believe that fire to return this season in Miami when he's playing with LeBron.

I'd like to hear more about why you believe Ilyasova to be a poor offensive player. His true shooting % was roughly the same as players like Antawn Jamison, Taj Gibson, Elton Brand...he can slash to the hoop with the ball, he can shoot from outside (35% as a starter from 3 at the PF position), and all indications are that he should continue to improve after a year in the league.

Tony Allen is not a good offensive player when he decides to play outside his limitations. I will not disagree with that.

Eric Maynor is not a very very bad offensive player. He's far from very very good, but as a distributing point guard for my second unit, I think he's far from the bottom half of the backups.

Simply put, I refute everything you're saying.


Also Nick, I hate you for your timing....I don't have the time at work to answer them fully in one go, so I keep stop and going..I just clicked "post" and I missed 24 replies!

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Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #82 on: September 01, 2010, 03:52:10 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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My 2 cents on a bit of this, I wouldn't hang my hat on Fisher out scoring Gortat.

Gortat was an above average Center in the minutes he got (not many behind Dwight) Fisher was possibly the worst starting PG to get so many minutes in the NBA.

Well, I just looked at Gortat's player log for last season.  I quickly counted approx. 21 total games in which he logged 20+ minutes (probably about what Milwaukee expects him to play).  He scored double digits in only 2 of those games.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3983/gamelog;_ylt=Av4rU8ZFL2793TS5Cae9_3A.PaB4

Look at Derek Fisher's, on the other hand, and you see double digit performances are NOT few and far between.  He had 12 in the playoffs alone.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3125/gamelog;_ylt=Av4rU8ZFL2793TS5Cae9_3AhPKB4


I really like Gortat, I even told Rondo to consider drafting him.  But I don't think he's a scorer and I see zero statistics more evident than what I've produced saying that he would outscore Fisher.

But heres the thing, has he ever played with a pass first pg the caliber of Kidd?  Gortat is going to get plenty of open looks and to be honest i really dont think i need him to score double digits.  He is my 5th scoring option in more starting 5 and then i also have good bench scoring in Jack, Miles, Wright, and Young
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Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #83 on: September 01, 2010, 03:53:03 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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My 2 cents on a bit of this, I wouldn't hang my hat on Fisher out scoring Gortat.

Gortat was an above average Center in the minutes he got (not many behind Dwight) Fisher was possibly the worst starting PG to get so many minutes in the NBA.

Well, I just looked at Gortat's player log for last season.  I quickly counted approx. 21 total games in which he logged 20+ minutes (probably about what Milwaukee expects him to play).  He scored double digits in only 2 of those games.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3983/gamelog;_ylt=Av4rU8ZFL2793TS5Cae9_3A.PaB4

Look at Derek Fisher's, on the other hand, and you see double digit performances are NOT few and far between.  He had 12 in the playoffs alone.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3125/gamelog;_ylt=Av4rU8ZFL2793TS5Cae9_3AhPKB4


I really like Gortat, I even told Rondo to consider drafting him.  But I don't think he's a scorer and I see zero statistics more evident than what I've produced saying that he would outscore Fisher.
Fisher was a below average rebounder, defender, passer, and inefficent in his scoring. (.499 TS)

To focus on how much he scores compared to an efficient, good rebounding, good defending center is a little strange to me.

Fisher scores at such a bad rate you want him taking as few shots as possible.

Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #84 on: September 01, 2010, 03:55:30 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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When are you guys going to start ranking the teams? I gotta get out of here at 5pm, so I want to see what I'm working with!


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Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #85 on: September 01, 2010, 03:56:27 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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When are you guys going to start ranking the teams? I gotta get out of here at 5pm, so I want to see what I'm working with!



1. Milwaukee

2. Chicago

3. Indiana

4. Cleveland

5. Detroit

Milwaukee beats you in the regular season due to depth.  Indiana lags behind because of a weak offense, in my book. 


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Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #86 on: September 01, 2010, 03:58:03 PM »

Offline action781

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Gasol and Kobe are both excellent passers at their respective positions.

Flynn and Fisher are not, their assist ratios are very sub par for a PG. Flynn is the worst of the four you mentioned. He played a ton of minutes at PG, had a usage of 25%, and he still only got 4.4 asssists! That's bad.

You're running the triangle correct?

The triangle offense would best utilize my personnel, so yes, I will be running it.

I don't think Fisher is a bad passer; I just think his offense has never demanded him to pass the ball and set up teammates.  It asks him to stand in the corner/wing.  Anecdotely, I've seen Fisher move the ball along the perimeter very well to create shots for others.  But it's usually upon reception of a pass from a teammate, not from something he initiated.

To focus on how much he scores compared to an efficient, good rebounding, good defending center is a little strange to me.

Fisher scores at such a bad rate you want him taking as few shots as possible.

It just came from defending against Rondo saying he could score from every position and I can't.
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Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #87 on: September 01, 2010, 03:58:51 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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When are you guys going to start ranking the teams? I gotta get out of here at 5pm, so I want to see what I'm working with!



1. Milwaukee

2. Chicago

3. Indiana

4. Cleveland

5. Detroit

That's it? No "I think this is how many wins they'll get" or "these are playoff teams" or "I just did this to spite indeedproceed"

I'm interested in hearing the amount of expected separation between Milwaukee and Chicago. I can understand (but don't agree with) ranking them ahead of the Bulls, but I'd like to know by how much, and why.

Edit: just saw your edit. Basically what I expected, and I can understand it. ALso, the only "paper tiger" bigger than Cleveland the last 2 seasons is the Dallas Mavericks, so them taking the regular season isn't really that amazing a notion.

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Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #88 on: September 01, 2010, 03:59:38 PM »

Online Who

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PG:  Derek Fisher (27) - Jonny Flynn (18) - Marco Belinelli (3)
SG:  Kobe Bryant (37) - Marco Bellinelli ( 8 ) - Kyle Korver (3)
SF:  Mickael Pietrus (26) - Kyle Korver (22)
PF:  Tyrus Thomas (26) - Jason Maxiell (20) - Nenad Krstic (2)
C:   Marc Gasol (37) - Nenad Krstic ( 8 ) - Jeff Foster (3)

Reserve:  Rafer Alston;  Rights to:  Rasheed Wallace

I'd like to see you give more minutes to Tyrus Thomas and Mickael Pietrus. Both players are considerably more effective than their reserves.


* Three of your five starters averaged in single digits last year, with your four starters not named Kobe combining for 40.2 points per game.  Can you think of any team in recent memory that got so little production from 80% of its starting lineup?

I think Marc Gasol can lift his scoring up to 18ppg while still remaining highly efficient. If Pietrus and Thomas were both playing 30-34 minutes a night, I think they could combine for another 25 points. Then Fisher with his 7/8ppg.

That would give them around 50ppg plus Kobe's 27-30ppg.

The bench with Krstic, Maxiell, Korver and Flynn should comfortably be able to add 20-25ppg.

Re: 2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences
« Reply #89 on: September 01, 2010, 04:03:59 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Question for Milwaukee:

Gortat's points per minute and rebounds per minute declined for the second consecutive season.  Is this a concern?  If he averages 30 minutes per night, what are you looking at for production from him?

Also, Gortat had the 20th most fouls per minute in the NBA.  Will this keep him off the floor for extended periods of time?


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