Interesting Iverson Article

[GreenFaith1819]

Nick,

All of your points and claims are pretty much true and its fine to feel that way about Iverson. However, you are doing one thing that is really unfair and claiming you know that no GM will give him a shot(for that matter you don't even know that Kahn is not interested). Maybe AI has been asking for 3 million in talks with the Clippers. Unless you personally know every single GM and every talk they have with players you have no way of knowing this. So you can't claim it to be fact like you are. It is the middle of august, the season starts the beginning of October. Teams still sign veterans up through February. If it is february next season and he has not played I will agree with you he is done and give you a boatload of tommy points. Until then, we can't act like the present timepoint is final and absolute for NBA transactions. Small moves and rumors are still happening everyday. Write him off when its official, but not before.

CC - you have served as a reliable go-between during a good portion of this thread. You have tried your best to rationalize everyone's point of view and I commend you for that.

But I must ask: What part of NickAgneta's post is true?

[Finkelskyhook]

Nick,

All of your points and claims are pretty much true and its fine to feel that way about Iverson. However, you are doing one thing that is really unfair and claiming you know that no GM will give him a shot(for that matter you don't even know that Kahn is not interested). Maybe AI has been asking for 3 million in talks with the Clippers. Unless you personally know every single GM and every talk they have with players you have no way of knowing this. So you can't claim it to be fact like you are. It is the middle of august, the season starts the beginning of October. Teams still sign veterans up through February. If it is february next season and he has not played I will agree with you he is done and give you a boatload of tommy points. Until then, we can't act like the present timepoint is final and absolute for NBA transactions. Small moves and rumors are still happening everyday. Write him off when its official, but not before.

Thank's but I'll write him off now and then you can PM me with an I told you so message when he signs and I'm proven wrong. How's that.

The next official act will be as inexplicable to me as no team wanting him is to some of you.

When the sportswriters vote the most overrated, overhyped malcontent in NBA history to the hall of fame.  It will forever downgrade the hall of fame to put a malcontent, coach killer, organization killer, and most of all, (as Nick said) ultimately, a quitter, like Iverson in the company of true champions.

Thats fine.. ill be watching the transaction wire like a hawk

An equally phony drama queen is dominating Khan's town and the sports world presently....But at least that drama queen wins when he's on the field.

[celticsclay]

Nick,

All of your points and claims are pretty much true and its fine to feel that way about Iverson. However, you are doing one thing that is really unfair and claiming you know that no GM will give him a shot(for that matter you don't even know that Kahn is not interested). Maybe AI has been asking for 3 million in talks with the Clippers. Unless you personally know every single GM and every talk they have with players you have no way of knowing this. So you can't claim it to be fact like you are. It is the middle of august, the season starts the beginning of October. Teams still sign veterans up through February. If it is february next season and he has not played I will agree with you he is done and give you a boatload of tommy points. Until then, we can't act like the present timepoint is final and absolute for NBA transactions. Small moves and rumors are still happening everyday. Write him off when its official, but not before.

CC - you have served as a reliable go-between during a good portion of this thread. You have tried your best to rationalize everyone's point of view and I commend you for that.

But I must ask: What part of NickAgneta's post is true?

Green faith this part is pretty accurate

"Last year Iverson was in exactly the same position he was now and teams he were rumored to be interested fell of his wagon faster than Lakers fans leave the Staples in the fourth quarter of a blowout loss. It took the GM that many regarded as on of the worst in the NBA, Chris Wallace, a GM that once traded Pau Gasol for close to nothing, to sign him in Memphis.

He played three games and QUIT on the team. I don't care who he was playing in front of or behind. He joined a team and signed a contract which gave his coach the right to use him any way he felt best benefited the team."

Memphis obviously was not his first choice going into the offseason and very well may have been one of his last resorts. I also agree that he quit on Memphis and don't really have any excuses for him doing that. Yea maybe memphis was making personnel decisions that weren't the wisest and maybe they weren't a hundred percent accurate in what they told him, but at the end of the day he should have stuck out the situation for a lot longer and tried to make it work. Its entirely possible he could have outplayed conley and gotten into the starting lineup. I have no excuse for him not attempting that for longer and think it was the lowpoint of his career.

[GreenFaith1819]

CC and Nick - On the surface, what you say can be taken into consideration, but AI should've never went to MEM. With where he is at at this point of his career, he would've been best able to help a veteran team.

To illustrate what MEM is about, I think we should wait to see how they play this season. I don't see them making the playoffs again.

Once again, though - it seems so strange how much the negative is focused on AI.

When Doc was doing his questionable rotations last season for Boston, he was questioned on here, royally.

There was even posts on the main page of this blog referring to "Doc being fired"......"Is it time for Doc to step down", etc...

Why isn't there more attention focused on Lionel Hollins and his inadequacies?

We've already determined (thankfully) that Micheal Curry and DET was a bad fit for AI.

Yes - a good "soldier" would've kept their mouth shut through MEM.

Just like Kobe kept his mouth shut while he was throwing his teammates under the bus in 2007, demanding trades and all that, going on radio stations, the whole nine.

Kobe is a hero right now to a lot of people, even with what he's done - and this is outside of LA.

In most of my posts in this thread, I've admitted that AI could've handled things differently. But coaches should be held accountable, too.

And this is why - in my opinion only - MEM was not all AI's fault.

[Finkelskyhook]

In most of my posts in this thread, I've admitted that AI could've handled things differently. But coaches should be held accountable, too.

I guess one of the benefits of being old is that if you look at things realistically, you learn things.

I've screwed a lot of things up over my lifetime.  Jobs, relationships, etc.  There's only one common denominator in all of those screwups.  When I figured out what that common denominator was and addressed said denominator, I started to become successful.

Iverson hasn't figured out that he's the common denominator.

That's why such a talent is unemployed.  And will remain so.

[GreenFaith1819]

In most of my posts in this thread, I've admitted that AI could've handled things differently. But coaches should be held accountable, too.

I guess one of the benefits of being old is that if you look at things realistically, you learn things.

I've screwed a lot of things up over my lifetime.  Jobs, relationships, etc.  There's only one common denominator in all of those screwups.  When I figured out what that common denominator was and addressed said denominator, I started to become successful.

Iverson hasn't figured out that he's the common denominator.

That's why such a talent is unemployed.  And will remain so.

I don't like the word "Old"....I prefer "Matured"

So at the end of the day, can we all at least agree that AI made bad choices as far as choosing to go to MEM and DET? They were simply not the best places for him to go at this point in his career.

Neither of those teams are playoff-ready, and won't be anytime soon.

Yes - he didn't have a lot of choices - this is true.

But that is why it is best to take a "wait and see" approach to him this season.

I still believe that, if he could end up with a contender...with a true "Alpha-Dog" PG or shooting guard (Ray Allen, Rondo, Kobe, Jameer Nelson already onboard...and a well-defined role from a respected coach (Doc, Phil or Larry Brown), that Allen Iverson can best shine.

At this point, I think AI needs to be around respected vets.

I still believe that we've not seen the last of Allen Iverson. And for that fact, I'm thankful.

[nickagneta]

Nick,

All of your points and claims are pretty much true and its fine to feel that way about Iverson. However, you are doing one thing that is really unfair and claiming you know that no GM will give him a shot(for that matter you don't even know that Kahn is not interested). Maybe AI has been asking for 3 million in talks with the Clippers. Unless you personally know every single GM and every talk they have with players you have no way of knowing this. So you can't claim it to be fact like you are. It is the middle of august, the season starts the beginning of October. Teams still sign veterans up through February. If it is february next season and he has not played I will agree with you he is done and give you a boatload of tommy points. Until then, we can't act like the present timepoint is final and absolute for NBA transactions. Small moves and rumors are still happening everyday. Write him off when its official, but not before.

Thank's but I'll write him off now and then you can PM me with an I told you so message when he signs and I'm proven wrong. How's that.

Thats fine.. ill be watching the transaction wire like a hawk

TP4U...   Let me know when something happens....

[The DarkPassenger]

Nothing like a healthy debate but I must say I am still surprised by some people hatred for some players. I mean you'd think that AI came to your house and crapped on your lawn or something.

The guy is a great player with some real obvious flaws and one of them is speaking his mind, not always best when you're a celebrity and pretty much have an open mic in front of you constantly.

Bottomline is not one player can make a team nor can one player break a team. It's a team game and AI will never be a sole reason why some coach gets canned. Franchises invest too much money in players and coaches to let one player decide who is on the sidelines. Some do consult with the star player(s) but in the end it's always up to the brain trust.

With that said let the debate continue.

[OmarSekou]

I think AI is pretty much done. When I've seen him play in the past couple of years he couldn't do all of the things that made him special. The article was interesting because it pointed out that statistically he has still been a factor on the teams he's been with, but his ability to transition into a different role and his mental state have to be questioned. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see how he fits on any contending teams and have no idea what his current skill level is.

As for AI's career, I think he's been given a lot of undue criticism. He is among the most talented players ever. He hustled as hard as anyone. He never got tired. He rarely got hurt. The knock about him being a bad teammate has never held up with me because he was a winner, and his best teams constantly outperformed their expectations. Any knock on him not caring is absurd. He's completely accepted the knocks that he hasn't been a perfect person and taken accountability for his actions. The guy is real. People have been trying to chip away at him his whole life and he's still fighting, I respect that.

He didn't get a ring, but that's true of a lot of guys who peaked in the Jordan era. To me he's DWade, except he got the Bulls instead of the Mavericks and had a bad rep going into the league, instead of a squeaky clean one. If the NBA teams don't give him a look Team USA should consider him for 2012 to show him some love.

[Finkelskyhook]

As for AI's career, I think he's been given a lot of undue criticism. He is among the most talented players ever. He hustled as hard as anyone. He never got tired. He rarely got hurt. The knock about him being a bad teammate has never held up with me because he was a winner, and his best teams constantly outperformed their expectations. Any knock on him not caring is absurd. He's completely accepted the knocks that he hasn't been a perfect person and taken accountability for his actions. The guy is real. People have been trying to chip away at him his whole life and he's still fighting, I respect that.

Respectfully, This post is parallel universesque.  This post carrys about as much weight as the article that started the thread.

[LB3533]

I would love to see Iverson in green.

Just to prove the naysayers wrong...it would feel so sweet.

[greg683x]

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.


Apparently some peoples binkies on here, dont all wear Green.

[KevinConnor]

Wow a lot of people around here kissing AI's butt! I couldn't care less if he's in the league next season. The guy is a jerk and always has been. He never cared about winning. The only thing he ever cared about were his own stats!

Kissing butt?

Just stating facts, not opinions about one's character.

Yep. Some other facts are that he left the Pistons, Grizzlies and Sixers because he couldn't live with a less prominent role like coming of the bench! Like I said he's a jerk caring only for himself. Winning championships isn't really important to him.

[wdleehi]

In most of my posts in this thread, I've admitted that AI could've handled things differently. But coaches should be held accountable, too.

I guess one of the benefits of being old is that if you look at things realistically, you learn things.

I've screwed a lot of things up over my lifetime.  Jobs, relationships, etc.  There's only one common denominator in all of those screwups.  When I figured out what that common denominator was and addressed said denominator, I started to become successful.

Iverson hasn't figured out that he's the common denominator.

That's why such a talent is unemployed.  And will remain so.

I don't like the word "Old"....I prefer "Matured"

So at the end of the day, can we all at least agree that AI made bad choices as far as choosing to go to MEM and DET? They were simply not the best places for him to go at this point in his career.

Neither of those teams are playoff-ready, and won't be anytime soon.

Yes - he didn't have a lot of choices - this is true.

But that is why it is best to take a "wait and see" approach to him this season.

I still believe that, if he could end up with a contender...with a true "Alpha-Dog" PG or shooting guard (Ray Allen, Rondo, Kobe, Jameer Nelson already onboard...and a well-defined role from a respected coach (Doc, Phil or Larry Brown), that Allen Iverson can best shine.

At this point, I think AI needs to be around respected vets.

I still believe that we've not seen the last of Allen Iverson. And for that fact, I'm thankful.

How is in not AI's fault for AI quiting? Quiting after three games of a contract he had recently signed. 

I could understand if a player realizes they wanted to retire. 


I do not understand a professional quiting so he because he wanted to start.  Start on a team that finished with a better record without him then the team he started on the rest of the year or the team he was on the year before.  Maybe the SG ahead of him was pretty good (Mayo). 

[celticsclay]

Latest IE speculations and news. NBA writer lists a few random spots for him, don't know the writers credentials, but NBA.COM is probably more credible then bleacher report

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/fran_blinebury/08/19/allen-iverson-possible-teams/.

and rumors the hornets and magic may have interest in http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/24011781

Just throwing out there for everyone. You can't really argue everyone believes its impossible if cbssports is reporting it as a possiblility. Its not like they run patrick ewing comeback stories.