Interesting Iverson Article

[celticsclay]

Well, he's quoted both on saying that he'll be happy playing 10 minutes on a winning team, and that he's "not a reserve type of player". Go figure.

Actually, there's nothing much to figure. His actions are quite revealing. True professionals typically just keep their trap shut and play.

Kozo I'll agree with you there. He would have been a lot better served if he kept his thoughts to himself at various points in his career. The iverson fan would say that is because he is so passionate and wears his heart on his sleave. Although it has screwed him it was also what made him great. The anti-iverson would just say he is an idiot and doesn't know when to shut up. I think both sides of the aisle are pretty far on this one though..

[GreenFaith1819]

Well, he's quoted both on saying that he'll be happy playing 10 minutes on a winning team, and that he's "not a reserve type of player". Go figure.

Actually, there's nothing much to figure. His actions are quite revealing. True professionals typically just keep their trap shut and play.

And you know - kozlo..that just doesn't work all the time, unfortunately.

A classic case, to me, is Artis Gilmore. I was discussing his HOF potential in the thread yesterday. If you read his bio, he came across as a quiet guy. He kept his mouth shut and played.

Quiet doesn't cut it in the NBA, in most cases.

But Artis' stats were rather impressive. Not as impressive as say Kareem, Bill, Wilt, Hakeem, Shaq, etc - but Artis Gilmore was right up there.

But he may never make it into the Hall, because he simply went to work every day, didn't cause trouble, and left the NBA without much fanfare.

Not winning any banners didn't help his cause either.

It would've been interesting to me to see how he would've done in Boston or LA - with plenty of HOFers surrounding him.

But in AI's case he has made the most of it so far.

My point? AI was meant to lead. Right now? Of course he would have a reduced role, but still lead in that capacity.

My interpretation of the MEM issue is that he saw that team going south - early. He knew his own limitations and how he could help the team. He also recognized how LH was inconsistent with the substitutions, especially when - according to the article - he was doing well with scoring the 11 pts and helping MEM stay close, then he was taken out?

I know we have some ballers here on the blog. Me? I love playing defense, and that trait (and my height) oftentimes got me picked for teams.

Now how would you or I feel if our coaches took us out of the game - for no good reason - when we were obviously being effective at what we were doing AND helping the team win?

So - was MEM tanking games? How long will it take Conley to develop? Can MEM win with that team they have now?

[freshinthehouse]

Terrible? Marbury? Didn't he help us win a playoff game against ORL in 2008-09?

Just like Doc predicted he would. I respect your point of view - but I disagree here. I don't see how Stephon was terrible in his time with us.

Just like AI (if we needed to sign him) would be able to fit in, IMO.

How was Marbury anything but terrible?  He hardly ever played, and when he did, he was awful.  Look at his percentages.  Dude is washed up.

And what playoff game are you taking about?  In one game 6 he had 12 points and 2 assists, and contributed nothing else.  In the other games he was relegated to mop-up duty.


I think a lot of people on this thread are getting the wrong idea about the anti-Iverson people.  It's not just that he may or may not have alleged attitude problems.  He's just no good anymore.  These guys are old.  When you lose your skill, you'd better be an awesome locker room presence.  That's how guys like Lindsey Hunter play forever.  But for guys like Iverson and Marbury, once their amazing god-given abilities start to diminish, they become awfully expendable.

[Kiorrik]

Is there any proof of this? There is so much mis-information out there.

“I had a problem with my butt from sitting on the bench so long,” Iverson said. “That’s the only thing I had a problem with.”

“I’m not a reserve basketball player,” Iverson said. “I’ve never been a reserve all my life and I’m not going to start looking at myself as a reserve. That’s something for the media to talk about.

“I went to the bench and told my teammates that I didn’t think they knew I was in the game,” Iverson said. “They didn’t. They didn’t even think I was in the game and that was a bad thing. I was like, ‘Man, I was wide-open.’

Looks like the perfect team player. Unless, of course, you think he's misinforming us.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-iversongrizzlies110309

What if he was actually right. What if he *wasn't* a bench player. What if he *should* have been a starter.

Being >in the game< is different than >not being a teamplayer<. What if LeBron was set on the bench in CLE when he actually *should* have been in the game.

I mean, he might just be right about all of this...

Just sayin'. I dunno. I like the fella.

[LB3533]

The hate on Iverson is amazing.

Ask Kobe, Ray, Paul, whomever to back up Mike Conley and OJ Mayo....they'd all have a problem.

If the team kept losing....AND they weren't starting like AI wasn't starting......they'd be even more peeved off.

[GreenFaith1819]

So - freshinthehouse - AI and Marbury are in fact old, washed up. Needs to retire. AI is 34 going on 35, and Starbury is not too far behind him.

And that Marbury 12 pt game you mentioned is the same one that allowed us to extend the series against ORL in 08-09.

So - based on "Age" - KG (34), Ray(34), Pierce(32), Shaq(38) and J.O need to hang it up, too, huh?

Kiorrik - You could very well be correct, my man....everything that I've thought about AI could very well be wrong.

TP(s) to you two for the discussions, though.

But in the end, I just have to give the man the benefit of the doubt. There are too many suppositions, allegations, hearsay, out there to prove me otherwise.

To me, Perception is NOT always reality. There are always other things going on behind the scenes. That is why we search for truth. That truth we seek is not always what we see in the media.

Those who opinions may differ from mine, I respect that, too. But for me, I believe the best from folks until proven otherwise - it was that same hope that kept me believing that Boston would go farther than their regular season performance last year.

That same hope took us within 6 min and a Perk injury from Banner 18.

[Snakehead]

The hate on Iverson is amazing.

Ask Kobe, Ray, Paul, whomever to back up Mike Conley and OJ Mayo....they'd all have a problem.

If the team kept losing....AND they weren't starting like AI wasn't starting......they'd be even more peeved off.

See that's the issue.  The fact that you are putting Kobe, Ray, Paul with AI.  He is not that good.  Also, the Grizzlies are not a veteran, contending team.  They are a young team with a young starting 5 that is trying to play them together and develop them.  A mercenary AI coming in shouldn't start, you're hurting the development of Conley and Mayo that way.

He could of been happy with a bench role but he was not.  He was told before hand that was his planned role so it is only his mistake and his fault.

[kozlodoev]

What if he was actually right. What if he *wasn't* a bench player. What if he *should* have been a starter.

Being >in the game< is different than >not being a teamplayer<. What if LeBron was set on the bench in CLE when he actually *should* have been in the game.

I mean, he might just be right about all of this...

Just sayin'. I dunno. I like the fella.

To boot, NBA teams actually have coaches who are in charge of making these decisions.

And even if he were right, the solution is to go out and spill it all to the media?! Yeah, exactly what a good team player would do.

[Snakehead]

Just to clarify, never said Iverson was not passionate as a competitor.  Crying at that press conference was that passion.  But that doesn't make him a good team player.  I played with guys who were very talented and passionate but not good teammates.

[toinewalka]

I'm a big Iverson fan, but NOT a huge fan of the article.  I agree that Stern probably didn't like him, and most likely disagreed with a lot of what he did, but Stern also did that with a lot of other guys that weren't black-balled (Sheed, Jermaine, Artest, Rodman....etc.).  Also, The article was extremel poorly written.  There were errors everywhere and mispellings.  I'm not saying that ruins his point, but I think it makes it look more like a person just complaining than a well thought-out article about the politics of the NBA.

And just to weight in, I would love to watch Iverson play for the Celtics, and I think he can still score, but I think that opportunity has passed.  There is no place for a undersized scorer on this team with Rondo playing 40 minutes a game and our team predicated on moving the ball and getting good team looks.  We also added two guys that we want to toss the ball into to get buckes in the paint.  Would have been fun to see though.

[celticsclay]

Since this thread has gotten long I will reiterate that I don't agree with the premise that he has gotten black balled. That seems pretty unlikely in any sport. However, if I had to guess one that it happened in, it would be MLB.

Anyways, Iverson has been treated a little strangely in the media, and this thread has kind of made me remember a few points. For example, I thought the big story last year by Stephen A. Smith was a pretty good example of what I am talking about. He basically said that he had "sources" that were concerned Iverson was drinking a lot and spending a lot of money at casinos and spiraling out of control. It was never backed up by anything slightly legitmate (Its possible I missed something, but I followed it close). All the guys talked about it on PTI, Around the Horn etc for a few weeks and then it just kind of disappeared. It was a especially wierd cause Stephen A. Smith claimed he produced the story to "help" Iverson. Now I don't think this is part of any larger conspiracy, but more a product of people willing to jump on a story that takes shots at Iverson before they would similar stories on different players.

Compare this to the situation with Antoine Walker. The guy had to officially get charged with writing bounced checks before anyone said a peep about it. You don't think there were sources out there that could have said they were "concerned" with Walker's lifestyle after he was 50 million in the hole? Maybe he hid it well, but considering Walker is well known for putting on a show with this kind of stuff its pretty hard to believe that. Or, compare the more recent story with Lebron James. He goes out drinking in the casino's, having naked women deliver him pies and seemingly running around with a ridiculous lavish ensemble and.... the story gets pulled. Its just interesting how that kind of story was front page news on iverson with no chargers, nobody on the record etc, and we don't see similar things happen with other players. If someone else can find me a similar example of this with another player I will give out the tommy points...

[guava_wrench]

It really makes no sense for owners to collude to avoid a player who isn't asking for a payday that will mess up the current salary structure. Why would owners feel the need to tell other owners not to sign Iverson when they are all already uninterested.

[hoopaddict08]

The hate on Iverson is amazing.

Ask Kobe, Ray, Paul, whomever to back up Mike Conley and OJ Mayo....they'd all have a problem.

If the team kept losing....AND they weren't starting like AI wasn't starting......they'd be even more peeved off.

Allen Iverson can still be Allen Iverson. That doesn't mean he deserves a starting role. Iverson's game is best served off the bench. That isn't a knock on him but simply the reality of his game. He isn't the defender Kobe, Allen, and Paul are, and he isn't the team player they are. Allen Iverson took the Memphis job knowing he might have to come off the bench. He even stated that, but he also stated he was competing for a starting job. Starting him didn't make sense for Memphis, they are a young team and you don't hold back the growth of their game for a guy who isn't going to put you over the top or even make you a playoff team. It was simply a bad fit for both sides.

I don't buy the fact that Iverson would be happy playing just 10 minutes on a contender. He says the right things but he doesn't allows follow through.

Are guys like Ben Gordon or Jason Terry capable starters? Yes. But they are guys that like to score, are under-sized, and aren't great defenders. Their game translates best off the bench, and while they both prefer to start, they aren't faking injuries or creating drama in the locker-room with their complaints. 

[Celtics4ever]

I loved Larry Bird when he played but I would not want him playing now being old and such.  I don't see why Iverson fans can't see the writing on the wall.  His sun has set.  He is a player who depended on speed to play well and he is old and slower.   If he could still play someone would take a flyer on him.  But that is not the case.  It sucks watching your sports heroes get old but it happens after about a decade of playing and they decline.  This has nothing to do with hating Iverson and every thing with letting logic and not one's heart dictate basketball decisions.

[celticsclay]

I loved Larry Bird when he played but I would not want him playing now being old and such.  I don't see why Iverson fans can't see the writing on the wall.  His sun has set.  He is a player who depended on speed to play well and he is old and slower.   If he could still play someone would take a flyer on him.  But that is not the case.  It sucks watching your sports heroes get old but it happens after about a decade of playing and they decline.  This has nothing to do with hating Iverson and every thing with letting logic and not one's heart dictate basketball decisions.

I love that just cause he isn't signed today people think it means there is no chance he will be in the league next season. Tracy Mcgrady signed within the last week and Shaq about two weeks ago (previously people had wondered if they were going to be out of the league). There are still a lot of teams making moves (heck even earl boykins is getting a look right now from someone). If it is February of next year and nobody has signed him, I will readily acknowledge his career is over. I don't think we are at the point that he needs to be compared to bringing back a 50 something year old Larry Bird.