Interesting Iverson Article

[the_Bird]

I loved Larry Bird when he played but I would not want him playing now being old and such.  I don't see why Iverson fans can't see the writing on the wall.  His sun has set.  He is a player who depended on speed to play well and he is old and slower.   If he could still play someone would take a flyer on him.  But that is not the case.  It sucks watching your sports heroes get old but it happens after about a decade of playing and they decline.  This has nothing to do with hating Iverson and every thing with letting logic and not one's heart dictate basketball decisions.

I love that just cause he isn't signed today people think it means there is no chance he will be in the league next season. Tracy Mcgrady signed within the last week and Shaq about two weeks ago (previously people had wondered if they were going to be out of the league). There are still a lot of teams making moves (heck even earl boykins is getting a look right now from someone). If it is February of next year and nobody has signed him, I will readily acknowledge his career is over. I don't think we are at the point that he needs to be compared to bringing back a 50 something year old Larry Bird.

Yeah, but it took forever for him to sign with a team last year, too (you really think Memphis would have been his first choice?)  Really wasn't much interest in him after how his Pistons tenure ended, and nothing last year erased that.

One team that made sense last year and makes sense this year...  Charlotte.  Play for Larry Brown, who got the most out of his talent (even though he'd never acknowledge that).  Charlotte is desperate for scoring and wants to make another playoff push.  He wouldn't be taking shots away from better scorers.  Was really surprised that didn't happen LAST year, though...  if Larry Brown doesn't want AI, who does?

[Finkelskyhook]

The hate on Iverson is amazing.

Ask Kobe, Ray, Paul, whomever to back up Mike Conley and OJ Mayo....they'd all have a problem.

If the team kept losing....AND they weren't starting like AI wasn't starting......they'd be even more peeved off.

The difference between the three players you're comparing Iverson to is that all of them are winners.  Iverson is a stat hound. That's the only place Iverson compares to them.   At this stage of their careers all three are better than Mayo and Conley.  Pierce, Allen, and Bryant could come in to any situation at this stage and come with credibility. They're champions.  All three players would voice their displeasure if they were sitting behind inferior players.  But they wouldn't wreck the team in the process.  Iverson, because of his own behavior, and alienation of coaches and organizations, has no credibility except his inflated stats.  He's talented but simply not a great player in any system.  Why expose young players to Iverson?  Memphis was dumb to sign him and smart to get rid of him.

At this point in his career, Iverson isn't better than Mayo and since he only plays one end of the court isn't better much better than Conley.  The Grizz almost made the playoffs last year.  Other than in a complementary role, a role that the grossly overrated Iverson will never accept, Iverson cannot help a team win.  He's proven that his whole career.

[freshinthehouse]

So - freshinthehouse - AI and Marbury are in fact old, washed up. Needs to retire. AI is 34 going on 35, and Starbury is not too far behind him.

And that Marbury 12 pt game you mentioned is the same one that allowed us to extend the series against ORL in 08-09.

So - based on "Age" - KG (34), Ray(34), Pierce(32), Shaq(38) and J.O need to hang it up, too, huh?

I hate(love) to nitpick, but Iverson is 35.

12 point game or not, Marbury was one of the most ineffective backup PGs in the league when we had him.  Dude is spent.  There is a reason he is playing in professional league in China that doesn't play a lick of defense.

And to name a handful of older players is silly when you know as well as I do that there have been hundreds of players over the years that haven't made it much past age 30 in this league. 

[GreenFaith1819]

So - freshinthehouse - AI and Marbury are in fact old, washed up. Needs to retire. AI is 34 going on 35, and Starbury is not too far behind him.

And that Marbury 12 pt game you mentioned is the same one that allowed us to extend the series against ORL in 08-09.

So - based on "Age" - KG (34), Ray(34), Pierce(32), Shaq(38) and J.O need to hang it up, too, huh?

I hate(love) to nitpick, but Iverson is 35.

12 point game or not, Marbury was one of the most ineffective backup PGs in the league when we had him.  Dude is spent.  There is a reason he is playing in professional league in China that doesn't play a lick of defense.

And to name a handful of older players is silly when you know as well as I do that there have been hundreds of players over the years that haven't made it much past age 30 in this league. 

Fresh - you are correct. Marbury may in fact be spent. But my point for bringing him up is that there were questions about him being able to come into Boston and accepting his role.

He did, in fact, do that. He may not have been a great sub for Rondo, but he was not disruptive at all, and accepted his role.

That is why I am comparing him to AI - and my opinion (and belief) that AI could come to a true contender (Boston) and do the same.

[Finkelskyhook]

For whatever it is worth this is what Iverson has said this offseason: "I want to return to the NBA this season, and help any team that wants me, in any capacity that they feel that I can help. I'm disappointed, and I owe my fans more than what they have seen of me the last couple seasons. However, now that my family is healthy and rock solid, I can concentrate fully on doing what I do best."

Seems the issue with his child are resolved and at least publicly he is saying he will take on any role. He also seems to have been humbled like Shaq and McGrady. It also seems like some people have put words in his mouth this thread a bit....

The quote comes from Iverson's twitter account....

......And then there's reality....

How does your post contribute anything?  A few posters asked if Iverson had said anything about not accepting a reserved role, i provided a statement from him as a resource. If you have nothing besides a pointless one liner, why bother?

I didn't see this earlier so I'll use your one liner to illustrate the point, Clay.

For whatever it is worth this is what Iverson has said this offseason:

What Iverson says, based on his own history, is worth nothing.
That's why nobody has picked him up.

......reality.....

[celticsclay]

For whatever it is worth this is what Iverson has said this offseason: "I want to return to the NBA this season, and help any team that wants me, in any capacity that they feel that I can help. I'm disappointed, and I owe my fans more than what they have seen of me the last couple seasons. However, now that my family is healthy and rock solid, I can concentrate fully on doing what I do best."

Seems the issue with his child are resolved and at least publicly he is saying he will take on any role. He also seems to have been humbled like Shaq and McGrady. It also seems like some people have put words in his mouth this thread a bit....

The quote comes from Iverson's twitter account....

......And then there's reality....

How does your post contribute anything?  A few posters asked if Iverson had said anything about not accepting a reserved role, i provided a statement from him as a resource. If you have nothing besides a pointless one liner, why bother?

I didn't see this earlier so I'll use your one liner to illustrate the point, Clay.

For whatever it is worth this is what Iverson has said this offseason:

What Iverson says, based on his own history, is worth nothing.
That's why nobody has picked him up.

......reality.....

Introducing an online resource isn't really what the meaning of one liner is, but I don't want to get into an extended war of words with you. Saying you don't believe him that he will accept a reserve role because of his own history is kind of vague, but based on others posts I will assume you are referencing his stints in Memphis and Detroit. That's a defendable opinion, however I don't think that means he is definitely not going to sign with an NBA team. Interestingly sports illustrated came out with an article listing him as the remaining top free agent

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1008/nba.best.available.free.agents/content.1.html

He is put ahead of some guys like Earl Barron, Earl Watson, Larry Hughes, Luther Head, Jarvis Hayes and others that most people would consider probable to be in the league next year.

[LB3533]

The hate on Iverson is amazing.

Ask Kobe, Ray, Paul, whomever to back up Mike Conley and OJ Mayo....they'd all have a problem.

If the team kept losing....AND they weren't starting like AI wasn't starting......they'd be even more peeved off.

The difference between the three players you're comparing Iverson to is that all of them are winners.  Iverson is a stat hound. That's the only place Iverson compares to them.   At this stage of their careers all three are better than Mayo and Conley.  Pierce, Allen, and Bryant could come in to any situation at this stage and come with credibility. They're champions.  All three players would voice their displeasure if they were sitting behind inferior players.  But they wouldn't wreck the team in the process.  Iverson, because of his own behavior, and alienation of coaches and organizations, has no credibility except his inflated stats.  He's talented but simply not a great player in any system.  Why expose young players to Iverson?  Memphis was dumb to sign him and smart to get rid of him.

At this point in his career, Iverson isn't better than Mayo and since he only plays one end of the court isn't better much better than Conley.  The Grizz almost made the playoffs last year.  Other than in a complementary role, a role that the grossly overrated Iverson will never accept, Iverson cannot help a team win.  He's proven that his whole career.

The issue isn't about "being a winner" or "being a loser".

In Kobe's eyes, OJ Mayo and Mike Conley are also "not winners".

Kobe would probably say: "don't even put those guys' names in same breath as me".

AI feels the same way. And I don't blame him.

[GreenFaith1819]

Clay - thanks for that post.

[The DarkPassenger]

I agree with what LB3533 said... why would Iverson come off the bench if he thinks and knows that he can play better than the person he is suppose to be backing up? If someone at your job gets the promotion that you went for and you know that you're better at the job then them you're going to keep quiet? HAHA! Get real!

It would be safe to say that if Iverson played here he would most likely accept a back up role because he would feel that Pierce and Allen are his equals and that he is not better then them. I don't know this for a fact nor do I know AI but again if someone got promoted and that person was as good as me or better at the job I'd be okay with it... so would most other people. 

You guys need to get over the practice speech. He spoke the truth that other athletes sugar coat with fake retirement talk. Don't believe me... see NFL Network and "Favre Watch". Favre is just avoiding being criticized in the media because if he came out and said "I ain't going to training camp." He'd be buried by everyone but he hides behind the "retirement" claim. AI didn't hide and say some bs for his fans to eat and yeah he took MAJOR heat for it and he shouldn't have said it  but oh well... he did...  clean up the milk and get over it.


If he came to this team and did great for us off the bench behind Ray then all of the haters, in Boston at least, would probably at least respect the guy. Oh and the selfish claim... he was the best player on a bad team for a long time... mean to tell me Pierce wasn't selfish when the Celtics were one of the worst teams? Both of them could have got there other team mates involved but they might have finished the season with a worse record then the Nets did this past season.

Yeah and the article was one sided but so is your ranting about how bad Iverson is so deal with it. I don't think AI was blackballed and think he did some of it too himself but at the same time there are some things he did that are ignored (positive things) just cause of who he is. HOFer? maybe, I'd probably vote yes.

[Witch-King]

Allen Iverson isn't so different from Paul Pierce, you know. Besides the obvious fact that Paul is by far the better team leader, the more successful player, has won a ring, isn't a distraction to his teammates, etc.

If you all still remember, Paul Pierce used to play shooting guard until Ray Allen was traded here, and since then he has switched to shooting forward. Now, that may not seem like such a big deal at first, however you can also look at a move like that as sort of 'going up a weight-class' as far as who Pierce now guards and is required to score over. Pierce is 6'7", compared to Ray's 6'5" and Iverson's 6''0" so it's not like that was such a difficult transition to make for Paul, though now Pierce is required to guard guys like Josh Smith, LeBron James, Tracy McGrady, Carmelo Anthony, etc instead of guys like Gilbert Arenas, Dwayne Wade, Kobe Bryant, Boris Diaw, Rip Hamilton, and so on.

Iverson, on the other hand has been an under-sized shooting guard his entire career, and has compensated for this by stat-stuffing. Even when he starts in the All-star game, he almost always plays point-guard there so I have found it disturbing how other teams in the league haven't found a way to properly utilize him as a pg yet. He averages more assists per game that some starting point guards in the league right now and would be instantly effective on teams like the Miami Heat or the New York Knicks. Even the two teams that shunned him in favor of 'younger talent' (Detroit and Memphis) could have benefited from AI's ball-handling skills and play-making ability.

[Finkelskyhook]

I agree with what LB3533 said... why would Iverson come off the bench if he thinks and knows that he can play better than the person he is suppose to be backing up? If someone at your job gets the promotion that you went for and you know that you're better at the job then them you're going to keep quiet? HAHA! Get real!

Flawed argument.  First of all, you could make an argument that Iverson is a better player than either Mayo or Conley.  But is he going to help the team win more than them?  Somewhere between probably and absolutely not.  He scores a bunch, stagnates the offense, and plays no defense.  He's not willing to accept the only role which he could really help a team....As instant offense off the bench.

If someone at your job gets the promotion that you want and you know that you're better at the job are you going to keep quiet?   Probably not.  But you're not going to undermine the entire organization if you want to get a job elsewhere....

Which is exactly why Iverson can't find a job now.

[Finkelskyhook]

Allen Iverson isn't so different from Paul Pierce, you know. Besides the obvious fact that Paul is by far the better team leader, the more successful player, has won a ring, isn't a distraction to his teammates, etc.

...Or that he disregards defense in any capacity, his team's offense, coaching, management, the league, etc etc etc. 

[celticsclay]

This has kind of become one of those topics were both sides are as far away from each other as possible and nobody wants to really given an inch. It kind of reminds me of some of the Shaq threads before he signed with us. I think a nine page thread on a guy with no connection to the celtics and no official rumor or signing with a team speaks volumes about how controversial and polarizing a figure Iverson is. I really hope that he signs somewhere so that we can talk about him all season long . Maybe we can get an iverson thread stickied!

[GreenFaith1819]

This has kind of become one of those topics were both sides are as far away from each other as possible and nobody wants to really given an inch. It kind of reminds me of some of the Shaq threads before he signed with us. I think a nine page thread on a guy with no connection to the celtics and no official rumor or signing with a team speaks volumes about how controversial and polarizing a figure Iverson is. I really hope that he signs somewhere so that we can talk about him all season long . Maybe we can get an iverson thread stickied!

You think that's bad?

Imagine if he somehow ended up here in Green.

[celticsclay]

This has kind of become one of those topics were both sides are as far away from each other as possible and nobody wants to really given an inch. It kind of reminds me of some of the Shaq threads before he signed with us. I think a nine page thread on a guy with no connection to the celtics and no official rumor or signing with a team speaks volumes about how controversial and polarizing a figure Iverson is. I really hope that he signs somewhere so that we can talk about him all season long . Maybe we can get an iverson thread stickied!

You think that's bad?

Imagine if he somehow ended up here in Green.

Well apparently that would make you and I 2 of the more unpopular posters but at least we can give each other tommy points.