Are Jordan, Magic comments actually also a diss to the Celtics top three?

[Brendan]

The difference is Ray and Pierce aren't in the discussion for best player ever. KG might have been - but the management wasted his best years, lucky for him he got to BOS in his last/best year.

Bird played with McHale, Parish, DJ... Magic played with a lot of All Stars, Jordan has Pippen and underrated Rodman/Grant. But the question is: were any of these guys in competition for best player? No. But right now in the game Lebron, Wade, and Kobe are the candidates for best player, Kobe had a shot at best player ever, but didn't get over the top (he's in the discussion at least), Lebron probably will be the best player ever for career statistically (assuming no injuries) and Wade had a shot at it. I think that's what's unique about Lebron/Wade then any of the others. Bosh is a throw in - he's probably the best PF in the game right now (at least stats wise), but he's not in the conversation for best player in the game, and doesn't breath on best PF historically IMO.

[crownsy]

You are honestly and objectively telling me that Mchale didn't give us a gift of a trade?? You don't think KG may have asked to look into having him traded to the Celts?

Considering KG held up the trade for three months and said publicly he didn't want to leave Minnesota and in particular didn't want to go to Boston?

Doesn't seem like he forced Minn to trade him to me. He only caved once Ray got traded and he figured he'd have a good shot at a title. He had no interest in the KG-Paul show.

so No, i think it's not that likely that this fariy tail scenario you made up where Paul played GM and pulled off these two trades pretty much by himself happened.

I'm sure he had a say in it, and wanted it, but it was a team effort between him and the front office, not some made up story where paul saved the day by going behind the sonics and the Twolves front office's backs and setting up the trade with Ray and KG, then taking over for danny to complete it from our side while KG and Ray told thier front offices they wanted to go to boston.

[Celtics17]

In 86 when the C's won the title McHales name was mentioned as a possible league MVP until he came up with some nagging injuries. He was killing it. As I remember he was averaging close to 28 a game for a lot of the season with excellent rebounding number, blocks and killer D. You could make a pretty good argument that for that part of the season McHale was one of the top few players in the game, possible top two with Bird as the other. Parish was a definite top 3 or maybe 4 center.

[BballTim]

But right now in the game Lebron, Wade, and Kobe are the candidates for best player, Kobe had a shot at best player ever, but didn't get over the top (he's in the discussion at least), Lebron probably will be the best player ever for career statistically (assuming no injuries) and Wade had a shot at it.

  Kobe's name only comes up in best player of all time discussions when people chuckle about how he used to be compared to Jordan. And it's unlikely that LeBron will be the best player ever for a career statistically. His stats should take a hit now that he's on a team with other good players.

[sk7326]

Nick our big three didn't have a choice but did have a choice. PP had to do some heavy marketing for each of them to leave their team to come to us. If either refused to be traded to us Danny would have not traded for them.

It was a setup not quite like Miami's but its like not bringing in three strangers together. Before coming into the celts team the big three were pretty good friends

The key piece of the puzzle is this:

Garnett was 31, Pierce was 30 and Ray was 32 at the time of the 2008 team being formed.  LeBron is 25.  They had all put 10 seasons in roughly.  They had combined for 0 finals appearances.

The Celtics, Timberwolves and Sonics in 2007 were a combined 87-159.  In other words, LeBron's team on its own won nearly 2/3 the games last year that the three Big 3 teammates won combined!  LeBron has made 1 more NBA final than those 3 combined have.  Now one person does not a team make - but it's clear that the only way Boston's 3 were going to contend before retirement was to do something like team up.

LeBron was MUCH closer to winning a title than those guys EVER were - no matter how flawed Cleveland's team has been.  So does it feel like he went to play with his friends as opposed to really try to be the best?  Absolutely. 

[GreenFaith1819]

Nick our big three didn't have a choice but did have a choice. PP had to do some heavy marketing for each of them to leave their team to come to us. If either refused to be traded to us Danny would have not traded for them.

It was a setup not quite like Miami's but its like not bringing in three strangers together. Before coming into the celts team the big three were pretty good friends

The key piece of the puzzle is this:

Garnett was 31, Pierce was 30 and Ray was 32 at the time of the 2008 team being formed.  LeBron is 25.  They had all put 10 seasons in roughly.  They had combined for 0 finals appearances.

The Celtics, Timberwolves and Sonics in 2007 were a combined 87-159.  In other words, LeBron's team on its own won nearly 2/3 the games last year that the three Big 3 teammates won combined!  LeBron has made 1 more NBA final than those 3 combined have.  Now one person does not a team make - but it's clear that the only way Boston's 3 were going to contend before retirement was to do something like team up.

LeBron was MUCH closer to winning a title than those guys EVER were - no matter how flawed Cleveland's team has been.  So does it feel like he went to play with his friends as opposed to really try to be the best?  Absolutely. 

Good Point, sk7326.

[LB3533]

Maybe Lebron's "team" shouldn't have made the Finals in 2007.

I mean it was 2-2 in the ECF, but Detroit lost Game 5 at home due to Lebron going off for 29 straight points.

Cleveland closed out the series at home in Game 6 and went on to get swept by a veteran-championship experienced Spurs team.

Maybe Lebron makes his teams so much better in the regular season that when playoff time comes, Lebron can't get away from masking the flaws of his entire team and coaching staff.

[GreenFaith1819]

I am not sure about the original question that the thread proposed, but even with KG and Ray coming to Boston when they did, ESPN and the majority of the Sports Media still picked LA to win it all that year (2008). They were saying how Kobe and LA were going to run us off the court.

Now, with the supposed "New MIA"...it is funny how those same Media pundits are picking them to win it all - ahead of LA, us, ORL....even though if they looked hard enough, they would see a team with some holes in it still.

[guava_wrench]

In 86 when the C's won the title McHales name was mentioned as a possible league MVP until he came up with some nagging injuries. He was killing it. As I remember he was averaging close to 28 a game for a lot of the season with excellent rebounding number, blocks and killer D. You could make a pretty good argument that for that part of the season McHale was one of the top few players in the game, possible top two with Bird as the other. Parish was a definite top 3 or maybe 4 center.

Barkley raves about McHale anytime the subject comes up. Being considered the best by your opponent/peer who is one of the all time greats is pretty good testimony.

[guava_wrench]

Maybe Lebron's "team" shouldn't have made the Finals in 2007.

I mean it was 2-2 in the ECF, but Detroit lost Game 5 at home due to Lebron going off for 29 straight points.

Cleveland closed out the series at home in Game 6 and went on to get swept by a veteran-championship experienced Spurs team.

Maybe Lebron makes his teams so much better in the regular season that when playoff time comes, Lebron can't get away from masking the flaws of his entire team and coaching staff.

I think this is a very valid opinion. We can only speculate, but your speculation is very possible.

[Celtics17]

Jordan and Magic both benefitted tremendously from having quality teammates. Sure in MJ's case he had to wait a little on Pippen but if memory serves Horace Grant was drafted very high and it looked as if the Bulls would be good or at least potentially good before Jordan ever made a decision to 'stay' in Chicago. If Pippen were in the league right now there are only a handful of players I would rate above him. Kobe, Lebron, maybe D. Howard and D. Wade. The funny thing is, in the last 20 years if I had to pick one player to guard any of those 4 except Howard on one play for the title I would pick Pippen without hesitation, he was that good. In ways, he was better then Jordan.

[nba is the worst]

What about when Larry, Magic and MJ played together on the Olympic Team?  Sounds like hypocrisy to me...

I don't understand how playing together on an Olympic team is in any way similar to what the Heat's FA'S did.

[nba is the worst]

Nick our big three didn't have a choice but did have a choice. PP had to do some heavy marketing for each of them to leave their team to come to us. If either refused to be traded to us Danny would have not traded for them.

It was a setup not quite like Miami's but its like not bringing in three strangers together. Before coming into the celts team the big three were pretty good friends

The key piece of the puzzle is this:

Garnett was 31, Pierce was 30 and Ray was 32 at the time of the 2008 team being formed.  LeBron is 25.  They had all put 10 seasons in roughly.  They had combined for 0 finals appearances.

The Celtics, Timberwolves and Sonics in 2007 were a combined 87-159.  In other words, LeBron's team on its own won nearly 2/3 the games last year that the three Big 3 teammates won combined!  LeBron has made 1 more NBA final than those 3 combined have.  Now one person does not a team make - but it's clear that the only way Boston's 3 were going to contend before retirement was to do something like team up.

LeBron was MUCH closer to winning a title than those guys EVER were - no matter how flawed Cleveland's team has been.  So does it feel like he went to play with his friends as opposed to really try to be the best?  Absolutely. 

I agree - he had just destroyed the Celtics in game 3 with one of those trademark unreal performances, with a stat line of 38 pts on 64% FG, (66.6% on threes), 8 rebs, 7 assists, 2 blocks, and a steal, 8-9 fts, for a +30 with just 1 turnover.

It was the worst home playoff loss in Celtics history. Cavs had a 2-1 lead, and just needed to win their home games to advance.

His performance in the next 2 games? 37 pts on 31% FG, 0% from three, 15 rebs 15 ast 2 steals 1 blk - and inexplicably and uncharacteristically standing near halfcourt watching his teammates go 4 on 5 - 10 turnovers, -10 followed by -22.
 He played a bit better in game 6, but when the game got to single digits with 2 minutes to play, he didn't attempt a shot, and had a turnover off his foot that was "unusual"...

I feel if he played as he previously always had in the playoffs that the Cavs likely would have won a title.

[Andy Jick]

What about when Larry, Magic and MJ played together on the Olympic Team?  Sounds like hypocrisy to me...

I don't understand how playing together on an Olympic team is in any way similar to what the Heat's FA'S did.

It was a joke...a joke.  Some of the uptightness here is baffling to me...

[scaryjerry]

KG did actually try to stick it out with Minnesotta, basically until after his prime
Both times Ray was Traded, especially from Milwaukee it was a suprise and the team getting rid of him, not him leaving via free agency or asking to be traded
Paul has never left the celtics, and wasted most of his prime on bad teams doing so
so, no.