It's just not fair

[Mike-Dub]

Honestly, I don't care if Wade did recruit Bosh and Lebron before July 1.  I think stuff like that happens all the time.  Players talk about their situations; how could they not?

Now, if Bosh and Lebron specifically agreed to sign with Miami two years ago, and Pat Riley knew about it / coordinated it, then that's a bigger issue.  But if this was just a player's thing, who cares, really?

What if they did while playing for their former teams?  If they did it after it's not a big deal, but if they did it while they were playing for their former teams, then I have a BIG problem with it.

Well you might hate it, but if a player on one team takes it upon himself to recruit a player under contract on another team, it is not against the rules.

No I meant while they were still playing because I don't care if Bosh and LeBron were taking about it with Wade when all three of their seasons were over, but if LeBron was talking about it while still playing with Cleveland in the playoffs then I have a BIG problem with it, Bosh during the regular season with the Raptors, and Wade too during the season and playoffs, it is illegal and everyone should have a BIG problem with it. 

[indeedproceed]

Honestly, I don't care if Wade did recruit Bosh and Lebron before July 1.  I think stuff like that happens all the time.  Players talk about their situations; how could they not?

Now, if Bosh and Lebron specifically agreed to sign with Miami two years ago, and Pat Riley knew about it / coordinated it, then that's a bigger issue.  But if this was just a player's thing, who cares, really?

What if they did while playing for their former teams?  If they did it after it's not a big deal, but if they did it while they were playing for their former teams, then I have a BIG problem with it.

Well you might hate it, but if a player on one team takes it upon himself to recruit a player under contract on another team, it is not against the rules.

Technically, I think it actually is, but nobody enforces that rule.  It's something that I'm sure happens every time two players get together.

The NBA cares about executives / team officials illegally recruiting players, not other players doing so.  I think that's sensible, especially when the players allegedly involved were all free agents.

I cannot for the life of me find the tampering clause in the CBA or the NBA Rules and Regulations page.

[indeedproceed]

Honestly, I don't care if Wade did recruit Bosh and Lebron before July 1.  I think stuff like that happens all the time.  Players talk about their situations; how could they not?

Now, if Bosh and Lebron specifically agreed to sign with Miami two years ago, and Pat Riley knew about it / coordinated it, then that's a bigger issue.  But if this was just a player's thing, who cares, really?

What if they did while playing for their former teams?  If they did it after it's not a big deal, but if they did it while they were playing for their former teams, then I have a BIG problem with it.

Well you might hate it, but if a player on one team takes it upon himself to recruit a player under contract on another team, it is not against the rules.

No I meant while they were still playing because I don't care if Bosh and LeBron were taking about it with Wade when all three of their seasons were over, but if LeBron was talking about it while still playing with Cleveland in the playoffs then I have a BIG problem with it, Bosh during the regular season with the Raptors, and Wade too during the season and playoffs, it is illegal and everyone should have a BIG problem with it. 

Garnett did it with Sheed.

[Mike-Dub]

Honestly, I don't care if Wade did recruit Bosh and Lebron before July 1.  I think stuff like that happens all the time.  Players talk about their situations; how could they not?

Now, if Bosh and Lebron specifically agreed to sign with Miami two years ago, and Pat Riley knew about it / coordinated it, then that's a bigger issue.  But if this was just a player's thing, who cares, really?

What if they did while playing for their former teams?  If they did it after it's not a big deal, but if they did it while they were playing for their former teams, then I have a BIG problem with it.

Well you might hate it, but if a player on one team takes it upon himself to recruit a player under contract on another team, it is not against the rules.

No I meant while they were still playing because I don't care if Bosh and LeBron were taking about it with Wade when all three of their seasons were over, but if LeBron was talking about it while still playing with Cleveland in the playoffs then I have a BIG problem with it, Bosh during the regular season with the Raptors, and Wade too during the season and playoffs, it is illegal and everyone should have a BIG problem with it. 

Garnett did it with Sheed.

While Sheed was playing in the playoffs?  I don't believe he did it while Sheed was still playing with his team.

[indeedproceed]

No I meant while they were still playing because I don't care if Bosh and LeBron were taking about it with Wade when all three of their seasons were over, but if LeBron was talking about it while still playing with Cleveland in the playoffs then I have a BIG problem with it, Bosh during the regular season with the Raptors, and Wade too during the season and playoffs, it is illegal and everyone should have a BIG problem with it. 

Garnett did it with Sheed.

While Sheed was playing in the playoffs?  I don't believe he did it while Sheed was still playing with his team.

Yes, during the season.

For the record, I understand that owners hold the purse strings, and that coaches are extensions of these nefarious figures. Hence the rules about tampering.

But as I read the Boston Globe's piece on Sheed's arrival in Boston, I'm left wondering: exactly why is "recruiting" by other players permissible? Seriously, read this part:

That’s why Garnett would say things to Wallace every so often during games last season, because he knew what he was going through. “When you’re in the league for as long as we are,’’ Garnett said, “you go through a dark time.’’

    Garnett reached out to Wallace, but discreetly. “I don’t really chase too many people,’’ Garnett explained.

[Andy Jick]

Didn't Stern fine a couple owners earlier this year for making comments regarding LeBron (or am I thinking something else)?

If so, how can Bosh (or Chris Paul) get away with comments and receive no punishment in return?  Once again, the hypocrisy of David Stern rears its ugly, yet futile, head...

[indeedproceed]

Didn't Stern fine a couple owners earlier this year for making comments regarding LeBron (or am I thinking something else)?

If so, how can Bosh (or Chris Paul) get away with comments and receive no punishment in return?  Once again, the hypocrisy of David Stern rears its ugly, yet futile, head...

Yeah, Mark Cuban, Steve Kerr and someone else were all fined.

[Mike-Dub]

No I meant while they were still playing because I don't care if Bosh and LeBron were taking about it with Wade when all three of their seasons were over, but if LeBron was talking about it while still playing with Cleveland in the playoffs then I have a BIG problem with it, Bosh during the regular season with the Raptors, and Wade too during the season and playoffs, it is illegal and everyone should have a BIG problem with it. 

Garnett did it with Sheed.

While Sheed was playing in the playoffs?  I don't believe he did it while Sheed was still playing with his team.

Yes, during the season.

For the record, I understand that owners hold the purse strings, and that coaches are extensions of these nefarious figures. Hence the rules about tampering.

But as I read the Boston Globe's piece on Sheed's arrival in Boston, I'm left wondering: exactly why is "recruiting" by other players permissible? Seriously, read this part:

That’s why Garnett would say things to Wallace every so often during games last season, because he knew what he was going through. “When you’re in the league for as long as we are,’’ Garnett said, “you go through a dark time.’’

    Garnett reached out to Wallace, but discreetly. “I don’t really chase too many people,’’ Garnett explained.

We don't know exactly what Garnett said to Sheed, but if he did say things like come sign with the C's next season (of course not those words, but something a long the lines of it) I still have a BIG problem with it. 

When a player is under contract for his team they should only be worrying about playing their best for their team and not signing with a new team until their season is over and they are not playing games with that team anymore.

[indeedproceed]

Honestly, I don't care if Wade did recruit Bosh and Lebron before July 1.  I think stuff like that happens all the time.  Players talk about their situations; how could they not?

Now, if Bosh and Lebron specifically agreed to sign with Miami two years ago, and Pat Riley knew about it / coordinated it, then that's a bigger issue.  But if this was just a player's thing, who cares, really?

What if they did while playing for their former teams?  If they did it after it's not a big deal, but if they did it while they were playing for their former teams, then I have a BIG problem with it.

Well you might hate it, but if a player on one team takes it upon himself to recruit a player under contract on another team, it is not against the rules.

Technically, I think it actually is, but nobody enforces that rule.  It's something that I'm sure happens every time two players get together.

The NBA cares about executives / team officials illegally recruiting players, not other players doing so.  I think that's sensible, especially when the players allegedly involved were all free agents.

Roy is right again.

95. What is tampering?

Tampering is when a player or team directly or indirectly entices, induces or persuades anybody (player, general manager, etc.) who is under contract with another team to negotiate for their services. The NBA takes tampering very seriously and may impose stiff penalties if it is discovered, however the league will not investigate unless another team files tampering charges. Here are some examples:

    * The Miami Heat were discovered to have tampered with Pat Riley in 1995 by negotiating with Riley while he was still head coach of the New York Knicks. The Heat "settled," and avoided league-imposed penalties, by compensating the Knicks with $1 million and their first round draft pick in 1996.
    * After Will Perdue left San Antonio in the 1999 offseason to sign with Chicago, he commented to the press about the possibility of the Bulls signing Tim Duncan and/or Grant Hill in 2000. The league considered this to be tampering, and issued Perdue a warning.

You may have noticed that when general managers and other team personnel talk to the press, they are careful to avoid talking about specific players who play for other teams. They do this in order to avoid tampering.

[Mike-Dub]

Honestly, I don't care if Wade did recruit Bosh and Lebron before July 1.  I think stuff like that happens all the time.  Players talk about their situations; how could they not?

Now, if Bosh and Lebron specifically agreed to sign with Miami two years ago, and Pat Riley knew about it / coordinated it, then that's a bigger issue.  But if this was just a player's thing, who cares, really?

What if they did while playing for their former teams?  If they did it after it's not a big deal, but if they did it while they were playing for their former teams, then I have a BIG problem with it.

Well you might hate it, but if a player on one team takes it upon himself to recruit a player under contract on another team, it is not against the rules.

Technically, I think it actually is, but nobody enforces that rule.  It's something that I'm sure happens every time two players get together.

The NBA cares about executives / team officials illegally recruiting players, not other players doing so.  I think that's sensible, especially when the players allegedly involved were all free agents.

Roy is right again.

    * The Miami Heat were discovered to have tampered with Pat Riley in 1995 by negotiating with Riley while he was still head coach of the New York Knicks. The Heat "settled," and avoided league-imposed penalties, by compensating the Knicks with $1 million and their first round draft pick in 1996.

If Pat Riley was already discovered with tampering I wouldn't put it past him to have done it again with what has gone on. 

[indeedproceed]

If Pat Riley was already discovered with tampering I wouldn't put it past him to have done it again with what has gone on.  

Well if you were having problems with it before, don't read the quote below:

Riley really put the plan into action last November. During a Cavs visit to Miami, Riley arranged a get together with Michael Jordan and James. Jordan, who was in town to do some Nike work with Wade, at the time did not own a majority of the Bobcats.

During the meeting, Riley talked to James about how more modern players should pay homage to Jordan. Riley always had led this effort, retiring Jordan's No. 23 in the rafters at AmericanAirlines Arena even though Jordan never played in Miami.

The Cavs knew about it, and while it seemed like it could be classic tampering, they decided not to make an issue of it -- mostly because the meeting technically wasn't about free agency.

That night, James and Wade staged another strong individual battle. But the Cavs won when the Heat didn't have enough down the stretch, a common problem with Miami's roster last season. After the game, and after seeing Jordan and Riley sitting together courtside, James made an emotional statement on the court that he was going to ditch jersey No. 23 out of respect to Jordan. In fact, he felt all players should stop wearing No. 23.

It was controversial and got headlines. Riley probably didn't care so much about the statement but how his conversation obviously influenced James. It likely gave Riley confidence that he could win James over by playing to his emotions when it came time for free agency. Riley became more dedicated than ever before to trying his grand plan of getting all three stars to South Florida, with poaching James being the grand prize.

And if that made you mad, don't click on this article:
Inside 'The Decision': Miami's coup was a 'surprise' built on long-coveted goal of James, Wade and Bosh

[Mike-Dub]

If Pat Riley was already discovered with tampering I wouldn't put it past him to have done it again with what has gone on.  

Well if you were having problems with it before, don't read the quote below:

Riley really put the plan into action last November. During a Cavs visit to Miami, Riley arranged a get together with Michael Jordan and James. Jordan, who was in town to do some Nike work with Wade, at the time did not own a majority of the Bobcats.

During the meeting, Riley talked to James about how more modern players should pay homage to Jordan. Riley always had led this effort, retiring Jordan's No. 23 in the rafters at AmericanAirlines Arena even though Jordan never played in Miami.

The Cavs knew about it, and while it seemed like it could be classic tampering, they decided not to make an issue of it -- mostly because the meeting technically wasn't about free agency.

That night, James and Wade staged another strong individual battle. But the Cavs won when the Heat didn't have enough down the stretch, a common problem with Miami's roster last season. After the game, and after seeing Jordan and Riley sitting together courtside, James made an emotional statement on the court that he was going to ditch jersey No. 23 out of respect to Jordan. In fact, he felt all players should stop wearing No. 23.

It was controversial and got headlines. Riley probably didn't care so much about the statement but how his conversation obviously influenced James. It likely gave Riley confidence that he could win James over by playing to his emotions when it came time for free agency. Riley became more dedicated than ever before to trying his grand plan of getting all three stars to South Florida, with poaching James being the grand prize.

And if that made you mad, don't click on this article:
Inside 'The Decision': Miami's coup was a 'surprise' built on long-coveted goal of James, Wade and Bosh

I've read Windhorst's article and I believe Riley did tamper, but nobody is going to do anything about it. 

[xmuscularghandix]

Also, what type of math does 13.5 = 26.8 since they were canceling each other out.

Because Cleveland was centered around Lebron. The Celtics are not centered around any one player. If both teams score, let's say, 100 point per game, and each player lost 5ppg, thats equal. Yes Lebron scores more but both teams rely on them for their averages. When they loose 5ppg from their average, the teams stay EQUAL. And the 5 points thing goes back to what I originally stated: "Lebron? Averaged 5 points less [in the 2nd round against the Celts] than he did in the first round"

Well, Pierce averaged 24 points a game against Orlando.  With your logic, can't we say his scoring was off by 11 points? 

A 5 game series against the 8th seed is Lebrons base point?  Not what he did for the 82 game regular season?


In 2008, Pierce and Lebron were a push.  In 2010, Lebron was a plus 13 with more assists, rebounds and shot a better %

but in a Cleveland-Boston series where Lebron is expected to do everything, we had a good team where different tasks were laid down throughout the lineup based on matchups. Pierces role was to play good D on Lebron and allow his teammates to exploit their mismatches. KG lit up Antawn, and Rondo destroyed Mo.

Once again as i’ve said before (many others have too). Cleveland was a team built to win MVPs for LBJ... not rings.

[bobdelt]

Pierce and Lebron cancel eachother out? Like when pierce went 4-16 and Lebron had a triple down? That kind of canceled out?